Novusordo

New trinket from Algalon 25 looks to be best in slot by far for Unholy, dual wield or 2h.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ometstrail.jpg

Dragonspine 2.0 here we go.

 

Valgaran

Ok so I have been a long time reader of Elitist Jerks and I recently got interested in this thread and thought I would try out an unholy DW spec on my DK. I have noticed that a lot of the dps estimates have been done on simulators and I am personally a little bit skeptical of similuators. It just seems as though the results are great for estimates but the only true test for me is in-game stats and recounts.

I originally tried going with the Death Coil spam build, assuming 2 pc t8 woud buff it substantially but I found that the bonus is much better for my 2h frost build. I then decided to give that SS build a whirl. Im not sure if I a spec that some1 else has already come up with but I pretty much tweaked the traditional 0/10/61 2h unholy build for DW and went 0/18/53.

I notice that most of the recounts for dw are being centered around 4pc t7 and I am just a little skeptic to building anything around t7 just due to the massive stat increase of t8. Anyway, to get back on track I decided to try the unholy dw build with 4pc t8 bonus. My assumption, and this assumption is purely speculation no math to back it up, was that 4pc t8, along with it's superior stats would yield more dps than gearing for hit.

Currently I am at (buffed only with HoW):
Strength: 1546
Agility: 351
AP: 3721
Crit: 28.08%
Hit: 248
Expertise: 21/21

Tier 8 -
2pc: Inc crit chance of DC and FS by 8%
4pc: Inc bonus dmg done per disease by 20% on bs, hs, oblit, and ss

My mh and oh are Razorscale Talon and Rune-etched Nightblade (Both with Fallen Crusader)
Sigil: Sigil of Awareness

I ran some numbers on 5 different 500,000 dmg Heroic Dummies in Ebonhold and just took the average of all values on all 5 attempts

The average dps was 3548, assuming Empower Rune Weapon for each attempt. the numbers were as follows for my top dmging abilities

1: Scourge Strike (30.6%) (46 total for 186388)-
Hit 63% (average was 2843) (max 3210)
Crit 34.8% (average 6597) (max 7580)

2: Melee (22.8%) (263 for 139197) -
Hit 35% (average 552) (max 1200)
Crit 25.1% (average 1013) (max 2376)
Glancing 22.4% (average 365) (max 787)
Miss 16%
Dodge 1.5%

3: Death Coil (11.6%) (26 for 70614) -
Hit 65.4% (average 2153) (max 2640)
Crit 26.9% (average 4858) (max 6030)
Miss 7.7%

4: Unholy Blight (7.4%) (201 for 45060) -
Hit 96.5%

I did a few dps parses in 25 ulduar today to see some of the numbers. Unfortunately my other spec is frost 2h and we were doing Thorim and Freya, which is pretty much gg frost dmg so I was frost for those attempts. However, Below I have linked a parse of a 3d zerg with dw unholy, one of Freya's minibosses, and General DPS (keep in mind all the RP i lost on interrupts and the 25% melee attack speed reduction),

I was just wondering what some of you theory crafters thought about the spec. I know it's been done before, its very very similiar to 0/10/61 2h unholy but my assumption is that the extra dps from necrosis, bloodcaked strikes, and melee strikes along with higher fc procs wields comparable damage output to the 2h build. I was wondering what some of the theorycrafters thought about a low hit rating in exchange for much higher stats. I did similiar tests on a set with 404 hit rating and did not put out nearly as much dps (about 2.7k on heroic dummy).

DPS Parses:

1. OS 3d Zerg: 5544 DPS (No army was used) - Melee Zerg Recount Meter

2. General 25 4664 DPS (Army Used) (Keep in mind that a lot of runic power is lost to interrupts and the 25% melee attack speed reduction is a pretty big nerf considering the high amount of melee dmg for dw - General 25 man Recount Meter

3. Freya Mini-boss 5206 DPS (No army) (The average of all 3 was right at 5230 so I just used this recount since it was the closest to the average) - Freya Mini-bosses Recount Meter

I am going to further compare this build to the traditional 0/10/61 2h build and see what kind of damage comparisons and contrasts I can find. Thank you for your time looking over some of the numbers . Like I stated earlier, my theory, which is again backed by no math just guesses, is that the DW spec I am currently running, when talented and geared similiar to a 2h build, will yield comparable damage output to that of the traditional 10/61 2h build.

 

Syrellia

You have been long time reader, yet all the information you have output above has been discussed before.

First of, I'll show you how recount is absurdly useless on forums. It only shows how much your dps could be, and does not show what buffs you do receive. While this could be of some purpose, when looking closely, you see nothing but a big dps (if that's what you wanna show then you should read the OP).

You are saying that DW gains more advantage over 2Hder because of more FC procs. Well more FC procs does not equate to more FC uptime. I've seen parses where 2H user have reliable 90%+ uptime for FC reported on WWS. Ofcourse he's using Frost where most of your damages are strikes (4 out of 6 moves: Obliterate, Frost Strike, Plague Strike, Blood Strike, Icy Touch and Howling Blast). Even if that would yield much higher proc than Unholy 2H specs where you have DC as a spell to RP dump instead of Frost Strike RP dump (a strike), they both can still output reliably 75%+ uptime. For dual wielding, the uptime is also varying around that area (75% - 90%) depending on how lucky you are, even if you put FC on both of your weapons. This is due to overwrite effects. Recount can never show such things, hence it's very incomplete.

It has been stated over and over and over and over again that Dummy Boss recount or parses are used for dummy only. It clearly shows nothing, since there are much of the buffs you will receive in raid but you won't in dummy bosses test. Please read up to find out why. They are there on this forum, and even on this topic.

The theory you "made" above (regarding the extra dps for DW could overcome the shortage in strike damages) is actually something I've been trying to do calculations & Maths. I'm pretty confident that it can come close (by looking at parses), but there's no hard evidence yet. It could be just my opinion and is in no way reflecting the truth until proof is produced.

Regarding hit rating vs. other stats, you could take a look at the OP to find out the stats weight (your build is similar to the SS build - 0/13/58 stated in the OP, I would imagine the stats-weight would be similar, but they're not exactly the same. Do the sims yourself to find our the stats-weight for you). There are some obvious things: Strength is much more valuable than any stats. After spell-hit capped (11% spell-hit - 289 HR), expertise comes in second place. Haste and Crit rating are very valuable too and are both much better than Hit rating at that point. The stats which are still horrible are Armor Penetration and Agility, since Armor penetration only affects your melee hits , and Agility only increases your crit chance with melee & SS, at a very low scale.

248 hit is wayyyy too low for a blood elf DK. Ofcourse you shouldn't gem for them because gemslots are better of used with strength gem. Imagine you are trying to interrupt General Vezax, and it misses, then your guild could be put in danger of a miserable wipe. Regardless, spell-hit capped should be reached to increase dps.

4pc tier 8 is always good because of the extra tier bonuses. I would say that the old tier 7 bonus was better (10 extra RP for each SS you hit), but it was nerfed. In addition, the extra stats from tier 8 makes 4 pcs tier 8 superior to tier 7 regardless of slightly weaker bonus pre-nerf (for dual wield ofcourse, for 2 hander i would imagine the tier 8 bonuses will be slightly better because of weapon scaling).

*Edit: Just wanted to say that, if you were interested in Berserking Enchants, I would conclude myself as of now (by looking at my own parses), that the theory failed. The reliability of FC uptime was very low, and the average uptime is lowered as well. It could mean that by using Berserker I had been sacrificing a lot of dps without knowing it. Perhaps I will check later when my gears reach higher-end, but I will stick to 2x FC for now. If you're interested in testing go ahead, but I won't anymore.

 

Valgaran

Thanks so much for the info! I switched out my Insormountable Favor for a hit trinket and its at spell hit now. Until DW gets a buff or there is any proof produced as you stated I will probably just stick with 0/10/61. Also, I did not take into consideration overwrite effects on FC, which threw my own math WAY off because I was assuming a higher proc rate than is actually present. I'll leave the theorycraft to the real theorycrafters lol

 

Xisuthros

I recently went from Frost 2H (17/51/3) to Unholy Dual Wield. And I must say, I am really impressed with the DPS I can put out (0/13/58). Its comparable to my 2H build, if not better!

 

Nemantopia

Unfortunately, I've found that I have enough lag in general that any of the specs [DW or otherwise] that use Unholy Presence are troublesome. Sometimes I don't find out that a proc happened in time, hit RP-dump expecting RP that doesn't occur, or get deeper in RP than I expect and lose an RP dump. Using the 0/13/58 I've put out numbers comprable to 2H DPS builds I've tried under raid-buffs. Blah-blah playstyle, use addon X, macro it, l2pfast, w/e. The deciding factor for most gear, including weapons, is: does it have Strength? This can be garnered from the stat-weights on the front page, but it can be hard to truly have that impressed upon you, especially if you're used to playing DPS casters (guilty as charged). I was gemming and enchanting well enough, but had gotten lazy about agility, items that are really Rogue/feral rings and the like. Just trading between a few blues from Agility to Strength (the epics were decently itemized Strength Plate), regardless of the secondary stats [crit, hit, expertise, attack power] got me from 'damn, I'm still only doing about 2.2-2.5k DPS' to 'hey, I'm doing 2.4-2.8k DPS!'. So while I was initially surprised to see some 1H tanking weapons reccommended, I'm not anymore. Particularly if the sword is a mitigation-2xthreat-stat item [low-moderate defense, block, dodge, or parry; Str/Stam; split rest between hit and expertise] it becomes ideal to build the rest of your hit items around these weapons.

Yes, I realize it's technically implicit in the OP stat-weights, but I feel it bears pointing out so that people new to DW won't be confused by why the ilvl and tank vs DPS 1H status of weapon progression occurs. Especially the 'often surprised' raiders and guildies so often spoken of in this thread. Speaking of, I've got the list mostly complete and am splitting it between recommended as MH and recommended as OH. Initial Excel coming very soon.

This is not the signature you're looking for. You are free to move along.

-Curse you, Raglu!
Generation 28:
The first time you see this, copy it into your signature on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

 

Orlgin

For those wanting an update on 01/18/52:

Using these stats:

<stat>
<Strength>1368</Strength>
<Agility>181</Agility>
<Intel>43</Intel>
<Armor>13778</Armor>
<AttackPower>447</AttackPower>
<HitRating>281</HitRating>
<CritRating>617</CritRating>
<HasteRating>160</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>562</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>91</ExpertiseRating>
</stat>
<weapon>
<count>2</count>
<mainhand>
<dps>178.9</dps>
<speed>2.7</speed>
</mainhand>
<offhand>
<dps>178.7</dps>
<speed>1.5</speed>
</offhand>

This is the result for 01/18/52:

******************EP CALCULATOR************************
EP :AttackPower = 100
EP :Strength = 309
EP :Agility = 60
EP :HitRating = 118
EP :CritRating = 121
EP :HasteRating = 124
EP :ArmorPenetrationRating = 166
EP :ExpertiseRating = 124
EP :WeaponDPS = 1000

Here's the simulation report for 100h:

Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
Obliterate 275709683 13 52427 55 41 2 5258
Plague Strike 26141102 1 17167 53 44 2 1522
Icy Touch 97373546 4 45470 70 29 0 2141
Blood Strike 57484704 2 29252 56 41 2 1965
Death Coil 182408018 8 43548 62 37 0 4188
UB 82812247 4 300836 99 0 0 275
Frost Fever 77829296 3 96829 100 0 0 803
Blood Plague 87660973 4 108810 100 0 0 805
Necrosis 116497873 5 396218 100 0 0 294
Blood Caked Blade 74204215 3 116027 97 0 2 639
Wandering Plague 59123749 2 73469 99 0 0 804
Main Hand 338904461 16 141383 42 39 17 2397
Off Hand 190888623 9 254835 42 39 17 749
Ghoul 248622999 12 381333 80 12 6 651
Gargoyle 125614391 6 46963 83 12 3 2674
DPS 5670
Total Damage 2041275880 in 100 h
Threat Per Second 3433

I used FC/FC with Awareness glyph. With 4pc T8 and enough ArP, Awareness catches up to Vengeful Heart. As the two were similiar, I used the easier one to get.

I'm uncertain what 0/17/54 and 0/13/58 are simming with non-heroic non-Algalon gear. When I have time, I'll do those as well.

Edit: 01/18/52 gained 39 DPS from 50 attack power.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Syrellia

*Edit #2: Point taken from Orlgin's post below. The sims I did with too low latency, I'll do another one with higher latency and maybe make another post. Edited to make thread shorter.
*EDIT*: I don't get it. How can [Starfall Girdle] be better than [Belt of Colossal Rage] for 0/17/54? Even with extra 6 str from the bonus (which most JCs will try to get) from [Starfall Girdle] which is not equally easily attainable for [Belt of Colossal Rage], the EP points for [Belt of Colossal Rage] is still edging out using the EP values from OP.

 

• Kyt

Once past the spell hit cap, Expertise is of considerable value as items go, until you are at or near the expertise cap.
That would be my educated guess as to why this is happening.

[10:42] <BrTarolg> trying shahraz wearing lvl 60 blues would be like, fucking a hot girl but with aids and the wrong kind of condom on.

 

Syrellia

I ran a few EP values sim to determine how valuable Expertise is compared to other stats after spell-hit cap. Even the OP post has those values by running the sims after spell-hit cap. I agree that for builds which rely on strikes like 0/13/58 (SS-build) or Obliterate build, or even 2h builds, Expertise is incredibly valuable. If you miss a strike it does not only hurt your dps but also buzz up your rotation.

For 0/17/54 though, it only helps you not missing Blood Strike, Plague Strike which, if you miss, you lose 1 second GCD only (nothing more because the DPS produced by those strikes are very low, and you can just strike again because you don't lose the rune), or you can use another ability if they're refreshed (the best abilities to use GCD on are Icy Touch and Death Coil because they're your bread & butter); Blood-caked Blade which is like 5 - 6% of your dps so missing a few doesn't hurt you that much; and white dps miss which is most major part, but hit can do the same thing (on different scales though). However while I agree that expertise is a little bit more valuable than hit (the values are on the EP post above, or on the OP), [Belt of Colossal Rage] still has an advantage over iLevel, hence more stats budget and obviously has more Strength. In addition it has incredibly high crit rating which is valued very highly once your hit & haste gets better (This statement is just a guess based on EP values I acquired using simulation program with my gearings).

 

Orlgin

Part of the problem is your low latency. It's simply not realistic to have 50ms latency. I used 150 and that is arguably unrealistic. 0/17/54 suffers far worse from latency due to it's 1 sec GCD: the more moves you do, the more latency reduces your DPS.

Quoted from Malan: If you want the sim to reflect in-game a little more, turn up the min and max lag. Too often I see people posting here with 0 or 100ms on the lag configurations. That isn't realistic at all. Even if your actual network lag is 100ms or less, there is still a human reaction time to seeing an ability ready for use and then actually hitting the button. Most people probably ought to run their lag in the sim at anywhere from 200-500ms.

In the shaman forums, they recommend 5000 hours for truly accurate simulations. I suspect the same holds true for this simulator as well. This might account for some of the variable numbers you are seeing.

One thing I forgot to add in my last post and one that should always be listed: the amount of DPS that is produced by attack power. Since everything is based on AP, it's kind of helpful to have the AP number listed.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Kyruski

You are correct, I think I know how I got it the other way. I think there was a typo in my calculations to put it short when I initially did the calculations. This is also true with 0/13/58 as well.

Uploaded the new Parses except or one which is using WoW Meter Online. They have been having some really bad connection issues the past month. It'd be nice if people use either World of Logs or Wow Web Stats (If you have a paid account, not one that runs out after 2 weeks) until WoW Meter Online is no longer so bad.

 

Syrellia

Unfortunately I can't do sims for 5000 hours. It took incredibly long and it kept return in an overflow error at the end (no report produced.)

I did a few more sims with 250ms latency and 524 hours. The DPS loss of 0/17/54 because of latency is quite large (400 - 500 dps) while 0/13/58 is not hit by much of the latency problem (about 100 - 150 dps loss in general). This time I used Bandit's Insignia for the sake of static AP.

Anyway here goes the EP values (Sorry I had to type, the machine I did sim on is stand-alone)

EP Values for 0/17/54 (variation with 1 in Unholy Blight, never used in this priority and 2 in Desecration):
AP = 100
Strength = 309
Agility = 63
Hit = 78
Crit = 124
Haste = 84
ArP = 87
Expertise = 109
WDPS = 636

Character Stats:
Str = 1494; Agi = 256; Armor = 14147; AP = 743; Hit = 411; Crit = 578; Haste = 252; ArP = 89; Expertise = 120
Weapon count: 2; MH DPS = 179 spd = 2.5; OH DPS = 178.7 spd = 1.5
<Set> T8DPS2PC = 1

DPS per 50AP: 33 (~0.66 DPS per AP).

It seems like as hit & haste gets better, AP starts to shine even more. Strength is always good because it is scales with AP linearly, but other stats scales with AP differently. Critical Strike rating just gets better and better and Hit & Haste gets worse and worse. ArP also gets better in relation with Hit & Haste.

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong here with the Sim. I'm pretty certain about these values because I ran the sims quite a few times. I also raise and decrease AP and as they changes, the value of crit rating changes as well. Crit gets more valuable when AP gets higher, and less valuable when AP gets lower. I'll try to do more testing with other stat-changes to see how this really works.

@Kyruski: I was wondering what kind of stats you were using when you did the EP calculator. (Edit: Answered below)

@ Orlgin: How do you determine what dps you gain per AP? (Edit: Added above, answered below)

 

Kyruski

I Don't completely remember the stats since I've gotten gear since them, but I'll try to ballpark what it was.

Str = ~1268; Agi = ~296; Armor = ~13963; AP = ~589; Hit = ~302; Crit = ~7-750; Haste = ~411; ArP = ~64; Expertise = ~114
Weapon count: 2; MH DPS = 178.7 spd = 2.7; OH DPS = 178.7 spd = 1.5

These are just from memory.

Also with the DPS per AP, it's actually quite simple. The Sim by default raises each stat by 50 for EP tests. To find out the DPS per AP, You just need to take the first DPS that's given (No stat changes) and subtract that from the second DPS that's given (The one with 50 more AP). That should give you the DPS per 50 AP and you can figure out DPS per STR, per Haste, etc... from there and that is how you can actually compare scaling with the different builds, by the DPS gain per stat.

 

Orlgin

Latency and a lot of hours really make a difference. My AP gain from 50AP dropped to 39 when I added more latency and simmed for 5000 hours. Unfortunately, the simulation was closed before it could produce a report.

The EP calculation changes drastically as you add more armor penetration which means that if you add more than 50 ArP, you have to run a new set of values. I noticed a large increase in DPS when I added more Armor Penetration. I'll report back when I know more.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Syrellia

It would look like that if we change values in different stats, the other values will scale differently producing different results, however the relations between the stats themself except for the one which was changed stay the same. For example, if we add like 50AP to our current test, we'll see other stats EP values are a bit higher. It is because other stats simply become more valuable. They scale proportionally, not linearly.

You can think of this as something like a classic math problem. Suppose we have 2 variables a and b representing the stats where a+b = constant (what stats to pick depends on you yet the items budget remain almost the same), the result of scaling is represented by (a*b) (both a and b are positive integer). (a*b) reaches maximum only when a = b. The larger one stat become, the other stat will start to become more valuable per point increased.

This is just an analogy, and is in no way reflecting how it actually scales. It is indeed a lot more complex than that, but everything can be broken down to basics. The problem is to find out how it actually does it will require a lot of mathematical work and full understandings of every single stats (how far 1 stat can go and what are the caps as well)...

Ofcourse we can just do this by trial and error: Always pick the highest valuable stat to increase, at any point at all, and try to drop all the stats which are "high enough" already. This seems to be the easiest way, in addition there ain't pools of infinite items to pick from. Just pick whichever one is available based upon the stats value at any given point of upgrade would work as well.

 

Orlgin

I have replicated my results for 0/18/53. I found a bug in the simulator by accident that was cutting disease damage in half. When I saw the lower result, I quickly edited out the post figuring I had made a mistake. I deleted the template that caused the issue and the sim produced the results I expected. I had named two files exactly the same by mistake and it caused issues.

To those who missed the original post, I made a startling discovery. I decided to maximize runic power similiar to 0/17/54 to see what effect it would have on DPS. To my astonishment, it simmed slightly higher than 0/13/58. Then I realized I used the wrong set of stats and I had only 100 ArP! A build that allows you to use ArP but doesn't require it to be competitive meant that gearing the character would be much easier as you wouldn't need to skip ArP gear.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...5&version=9947

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<character>
<stat>
<Strength>1500</Strength>
<Agility>200</Agility>
<Intel>43</Intel>
<Armor>13778</Armor>
<AttackPower>400</AttackPower>
<HitRating>300</HitRating>
<CritRating>800</CritRating>
<HasteRating>450</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>100</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>91</ExpertiseRating>
</stat>
<weapon>
<count>2</count>
<mainhand>
<dps>178.9</dps>
<speed>2.7</speed>
</mainhand>
<offhand>
<dps>178.7</dps>
<speed>1.5</speed>
</offhand>
</weapon>
<EP><base>50</base></EP>
<Set>
<T72PDPS>0</T72PDPS>
<T74PDPS>0</T74PDPS>
<T82PDPS>1</T82PDPS>
<T84PDPS>1</T84PDPS>
<T72PTNK>0</T72PTNK>
<T74PTNK>0</T74PTNK>
<T82PTNK>0</T82PTNK>
<T84PTNK>0</T84PTNK>
</Set>
<ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>1</ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>
</character>

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<Priority>
<BloodTap></BloodTap>
<FrostFever></FrostFever>
<BloodPlague></BloodPlague>
<Obliterate></Obliterate>
<UnholyBlight></UnholyBlight>
<DeathCoil></DeathCoil>
<GhoulFrenzy></GhoulFrenzy>
<IcyTouch></IcyTouch>
<BloodStrike></BloodStrike>
</Priority>

Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
Obliterate 176428348 8 51355 55 42 2 3435
Plague Strike 34007337 1 23069 49 48 2 1474
Icy Touch 97038364 4 40131 66 33 0 2418
Blood Strike 54313274 2 29683 54 42 2 1829
Death Coil 386238331 17 65668 58 41 0 5881
Frost Fever 86497391 3 97535 100 0 0 886
Blood Plague 91159230 4 102254 100 0 0 891
Necrosis 125696655 5 433254 100 0 0 290
Blood Caked Blade 76186755 3 126719 97 0 2 601
Wandering Plague 70979086 3 79794 100 0 0 889
Main Hand 366414708 16 155184 39 43 17 2361
Off Hand 205093086 9 278070 39 43 17 737
Ghoul 255601138 11 365889 80 12 6 698
Gargoyle 147009444 6 52371 84 12 2 2807
DPS 6035

Blood Presence. FC/FC on Weapons. Vengeful Heart Sigil.

For Death Runes: The simulator would fire Death Coil and then Obliterate if runic power was 40 or higher for the first Death Rune. Otherwise the first Death Rune was Icy Touch. Two Icy Touch is more DPS if you can successfully dump the runic power. If you can't, then Obliterate is your best bet.

I tried various different versions trying to use Scourge Strike instead of Obliterate and all of them resulted in noticeably lower DPS. The opportunity cost of Scourge Strike (1 talent point and 5 runic power) was just a little too high.

Edit: 524 hour simulation produced this:

******************EP CALCULATOR************************
EP :AttackPower = 100
EP :Strength = 302
EP :Agility = 68
EP :HitRating = 108
EP :CritRating = 117
EP :HasteRating = 134
EP :ArmorPenetrationRating = 120
EP :ExpertiseRating = 134
EP :WeaponDPS = 942

Where 50 AP added 35 DPS.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Whatevr

Is there a way to add in trinket procs to the simulation at all? I have greatness and mirror of truth and I'd like to know if the simulation can add those values in so I can get an accurate reading of what my true dps would be.

 

Afabar

Trinket proc are not simulated right now. You can add to your character sheet the average value of the proc.

 

Melchior

Very interesting! We still have a good chunk of Ulduar to clear yet this week, and I originally played Blood so I probably actually have a much better gear setup to run a build like this than I do for 0/17/54 which I'm currently using, so I think I will give this a shot tomorrow.

It's a bit sad that Obliterate wins this battle considering the build is so deep Unholy, but the results make sense. I wish there was some way to work the Obliterate glyph in there - I wonder if you lacked the Vengeful Heart sigil (and thus were using Awareness), would it still be more DPS to run the IT glyph?

Edit - I just noticed that you said Awareness actually catches up to Vengeful Heart in your post prior to this, so I'm assuming that your last results were using it as well. In that case I suppose the IT glyph would be the clear winner there as it would add 1 DC per 20s (which definitely trumps 20% of OBx2 looking at your average damage results). Given that I'm surprised Awareness ever manages to catch up to Vengeful Heart at all.

Edit #2 - Trying this out on the dummy, it's actually a bit frustrating trying to spend the Ds on IT in BP because of the GCD choke from RP flow. I actually get better results just spending them on OB.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Junon.png

 

Aina

You'll probably need more haste to make this work. Moonkin/Ret aura and Wrath of Air totem help a lot in a rotation with so many spells (DC, IT). So dummies are unfortunately usually useless, even for testing out rotations.

I'm very happy to hear from the Oblit spec again - you make me a happy person Orlgin, thanks again for all the work you do on this.

I'm using 1/18/52 and a 51/0/20 DW-Blood spec atm, since I'm finally getting a decent amount of ArP (249 iirc). Both specs give me very, very similar results. I would offer to give you some WWS parses, but I doubt they're of much value, since I am A) not in the best gear, and B) our raid DPS isn't that high at all. That means my total DPS is -alot- lower on fights such as Deconstructor, since raids with a high total DPS spend a larger portion of their time hitting the heart, and thus get inflated DPS numbers.
If anyone is interested in them, just yell.

I'll be play-testing your new suggest build next week, Orlgin.

 

Kyruski

Orlgin, if you want me to change the OP, just let me know with a few details of the build. Also, what was the DPS when you tested 0/13/58. What was the latency used. Details man, we need details. Also how much is this effected by latency the higher you go?

Aina, Don't feel so bad. A lot of guilds aren't going to be producing the high amount of DPS you see on XT since they're going into hardmode. This means less time on the heart and less inflated DPS. I'm starting to think that XT hardmode could become a good DPS meter (excluding the parts about gravity bombs and searing light). I is pretty close to Patchwerk once you get past the initial heart phase. I know this achievement is still out of reach of some guilds, but later on, I might consider adding a Parse section for XT Hardmode that's separate from regular XT.

EDIT: Orlgin, I don't see how you're getting 0/18/53 simming higher than 0/13/58, I just did some sims and I get 0/13/58 ahead by a good 130dps or so. This is at 250ms, Same stats as you posted (copied and pasted to ensure no error in entry).

 

Orlgin

I used 200 ms latency. It would make sense that my build would lose more DPS with latency because of runic overflow issues. I originally posted both sets of numbers in the post I deleted. I'm pretty sure I duplicated your spec exactly. I'll run it again just in case. Perhaps my priority was in error.

I ran the numbers again changing the Armor Penetration to 400.

Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
Obliterate 1010526546 8 269474 55 42 2 3749
Plague Strike 194417463 1 120636 49 48 2 1611
Icy Touch 507274034 4 210260 66 33 0 2412
Blood Strike 310388291 2 155811 54 42 2 1992
Death Coil 2026583412 17 344290 58 41 0 5886
Frost Fever 453284143 3 511197 100 0 0 886
Blood Plague 477139674 4 535282 100 0 0 891
Necrosis 718106624 6 2270490 100 0 0 316
Blood Caked Blade 435790129 3 664096 97 0 2 656
Wandering Plague 371136627 3 417297 100 0 0 889
Main Hand 2092428207 17 812392 39 43 17 2575
Off Hand 1172875365 9 1458098 39 43 17 804
Ghoul 1338814821 11 1916953 80 12 6 698
Gargoyle 768676977 6 274062 84 12 2 2804
DPS 6296
Total Damage 11877442313 in 524 h
Threat Per Second 4184
Generated in 1466s
Template :4pcT8Desecration.xml(c:\Users\Ben\Downloads\DKSimulator0.8.4\DKSimulator0.8.4\Templa tes\4pcT8Desecration.xml)
Priority :Ben011852.xml(c:\Users\Ben\Downloads\DKSimulator0.8.4\DKSimulator0.8.4\Priority\Ben0 11852.xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :VengefulHeart
RuneForge :FallenCrusader / FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True


******************EP CALCULATOR************************
EP :AttackPower = 100
EP :Strength = 297
EP :Agility = 55
EP :HitRating = 105
EP :CritRating = 108
EP :HasteRating = 133
EP :ArmorPenetrationRating = 130
EP :ExpertiseRating = 138
EP :WeaponDPS = 1027

DPS gained from 50 AP: 36

@Kyruski: Here is 200ms 0/13/58 that I got for the comparison

Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
Scourge Strike 326453370 15 58842 51 45 2 5547
Plague Strike 32127985 1 17188 52 45 2 1869
Icy Touch 94592149 4 39050 66 33 0 2422
Blood Strike 59599811 2 32614 57 40 2 1827
Death Coil 155747296 7 36235 58 41 0 4298
UB 92085750 4 306674 100 0 0 300
Frost Fever 88528984 4 99478 100 0 0 889
Blood Plague 98610821 4 110569 100 0 0 891
Necrosis 122758924 5 433410 100 0 0 283
Blood Caked Blade 77719446 3 127132 97 0 2 611
Wandering Plague 68060744 3 76386 100 0 0 891
Main Hand 357758097 16 155123 42 40 17 2306
Off Hand 200397224 9 278287 42 40 17 720
Ghoul 255314583 11 365699 80 12 6 698
Gargoyle 141735506 6 50558 84 12 2 2803
DPS 6032
Total Damage 2171490690 in 100 h
Threat Per Second 3989
Generated in 321s
Template :01358.xml(c:\Users\Ben\Downloads\DKSimulator0.8.4\DKSimulator0.8.4\Templates\01358.x ml)
Priority :SSTest.xml(c:\Users\Ben\Downloads\DKSimulator0.8.4\DKSimulator0.8.4\Priority\SSTest. xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :Awareness
RuneForge :FallenCrusader / FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True

I swapped Scourge Strike for Obliterate but the priority was identical to the one posted earlier.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Themallet

delete this post please

 

winst

cough

Seriously though, I'm interested to see how this plays out. Off the top of my head it feels like it'll be hard to beat a strike based build such as frost. With two slow weapons, Obliterate and Frost Strike spam seems capable of some complete madness, especially if vengegul heart applies to both hands and modifies well.