plopinou

So this is even worse... hmm better ! If your already do the same dps as rogues or ferals, then with those changes you will be above them.
That's why i believe blizzard will make some changes on ptr that will more or less let blood dps at the current level, which already seems pretty good without the need to buff it over the edge.

I'm confident in the fact that it is not intended, or blue would have changed his mind really fast after saying they wanted HS to be a situational cleave ability instead of a main attack

 

Decaying

Well - to be fair, the top Rogue/Druid parses for XT25 hard mode are 8K-8.5k dps

 

Melchior

As it stands, Blood is doing pretty ridiculous damage on the PTR. Some of these numbers have to be adjusted or there is going to be a large single-target discrepancy between Blood and Frost/Unholy (and probably most other DPS classes). The dummy in Acherus (obviously lacking any armor debuffs) I'm throwing 11.5k HS with procs. Needs adjustment.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Junon.png

 

Veritas17

I welcome the changes. Though if you step back, the way it would look now is that they wanted blood to be higher single target damage where as frost is the dw spec, and then lastly unholy for all that is aoe. I kind of wish it was like that but regardless, the damage output of blood on the ptr's for me is sitting around 45-4600 depending on what im swapping out gear for.

Im puzzled though at the bloodstrike change. Is it meant to be used as our main single target ability now? I was hitting bloodstrikes for 10.5~11k+ without my buffs all proc'd and 12k+ with. I do see where the boost to bs would be welcome since there already are a number of fights where you'd rather have a better single target strike to use instead of a cleave. That raises the question then why not just make another addendum to a talent to increase bloodstrikes damage x whatever to push it above heartstrike? Anyhow I digress.

 

Feralkin

Just to help clarify something to do with the BS glyph and what constitutes a snare in a raiding environment.
Bosses are immune to movement impairing effects so Hamstring, Desecration and the likes are not going to constitute a snare because the boss is immune to this effect and the debuff will not land on him.
Now the snare that can land on a boss is anything that reduces his melee attack speed. No boss is immune to that and every single tank class has it.
Warrior = Thunderclap
Druid = Infected Wounds
Paly = Judgements of the Just
DK's = Icy touch.

Now the last one kinda makes all this pointless but i thought i would fill in the blanks. Untalented IT reduces melee and ranged attack speed by 14% for 15 seconds. So basically you will always have this snare on the target between your normal rotations and your MT rotations.

 

Bonecaller

Well, you are completely wrong. Snare means movement reducing, not attack speed.

So from your examples, only infected wounds may work in 3.2.

Desercration may even not work any longer since they splitted the talent into snare and damage component, making bosses supossingly immune to desercration. It wouldnt surprise me, if infected wounds also doesnt snare anymore.

I am pretty sure today that the glyph will be useless, they will change it so long until it is.

 

Feralkin

My apologies i thought that it worked similar to the mage talent torment the weak. But looking at that it includes the phrase, "snared or slowed targets". Bosses have always been immune to snares (Movement impairing) as far as i know, if there are any that are not immune then they are certainly a very small exception to the rule. That would leave the glyph to only have use in pvp or on certain trash mobs, neither of which matter for this discussion as it is aimed at boss single target dmg.

 

Alyse

A snare is indeed any effect that impairs the movement of the target. While bosses are generally immune to the actual movement impairing effect of a snare, they can still be afflicted with the snare debuff, allowing players to benefit from the boss being snared. (FFB, frostbolt, slow, desecration, etc...)

 

Kalitari

If this is indeed their intention then they will buff Blood Strike untill it indeed does more single-target dps than HS. However, that buffing would happen without the Glyph of Blood Strike. I fully expect them to remove or change the Glyph due to PvP reasons.

As on DRW vs. UB if there is any logic in what they are doing then DRW should do more dps than UB as long as you stay within melee range. However, in mobile fights 50/0/21 would outdo 51/0/20 simply because the ranged DoT effect requires less being-in-range to produce the dps. Already at the moment I am seeing 44/0/27 spec producing more dps than 51/0/20 in fights like Mimiron P1 because my ghoul can keep dpsing when I'm running away from Shock Blast.

 

zeheres

Anything related to snare effects can be found here.

 

dr_AllCOM3

Death Runes are finally fixed. They are used based on their original color, so IT will use a converted F rune first.

DocsDK UI
Simulator

 

richard

What if you have bbDDDD and use HS twice? Will it use UU or UF?

I'm guessing it will still go for UU and leave you with DD that are frost.

 

Teyrocar

Thank God.

Good point, seems like this would still be an issue.

 

Lujaar

That's the Torment of the Weak mechanic. Torment of the Weak is the mage equivalent of the blood strike glyph, and it was changed in 3.08 to work off attack speed debuffs in addition to snares. Glyph of blood strike never changed; it's still snares only. I did some quick tests yesterday (on live) and the blood strike glyph does not work off frost fever.

The only things that trigger the glyph on raid bosses are snare debuffs that also do something else, so that the debuff goes up even though the boss is immune to snares.

Infected Wounds
Icy Touch w/ Chillblains
Frostfire Bolt

I've probably missed one or two, but the point is it's a short list and none of them are things you can count on to be up.


On a semi-related topic, deathknight Q&A is up and GC mentioned the blood strike change. MMO-champ bluetracker link:

It looks the the BS change is aimed at frost/unholy. The devs may have just not looked at how it impacts blood yet, so all this discussion about using BS over HS may be premature.

 

• frmorrison

Any glyph can be changed on this PTR, nothing is protected from changes.

Blizzard does PTR on an iterative process, so it seems they are working on DW Frost now, so later they will worry about UB not working and HS vs. BS usage. There is still two months until a possible release.

The goal is Blood, Unholy, and DW Frost to be deal about the same dps.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

OriginalMemnock

I've barely been on the PTR to test out blood with UB versus DRW and so far I like the results.. a lot... so much so that I expect the nerf stick will be hitting SOMETHING soon.

Anyhow, I'm curious what a build like this would yield:

50/0/21

Replacing 2 points from necrosis and putting them into shorter ghoul cooldown. With this the idea is to always fit the ghoul into your rotation, much in the same way you would DRW, and seeing if that would yield higher dps than an extra 2 points in necrosis.

If anyone has tried this, please share your results.

Thank you.

 

MourningWould

I noted your macro section, and applaud you on the clarification on Dancing Rune Weapon self-cast macros. Also notable is the sequence in which you gave Orc Death Knights a simple cooldown macro. However, for those of us racially-challenged, I thought I would add the self-cast combination I found to work best for Blood Elves:

/cast [target=self] Hysteria
/use Potion of Speed
/use Mark of Norgannon
/cast [target=self] Dancing Rune Weapon
/cast Arcane Torrent

Just as the slight increase from a self-cast DRW targetting from the rear of a mob scales up slightly, I found that adding a Torrent in at the end of this macro increased my options, as well. Through conversations with many other on-server Blood Elf Death Knights, many were unfamiliar that this sequence allowed for you to dump your RP into DRW summons, and then regen a base 15 RP. I have found that should Greatness proc and the need arise to consolidate cooldowns, if I have not yet accrued enough Death Runes, I can still begin a regular rotation with little fear of a wasted swing of the Glyphed Death Strike. As you said, every little bit counts, and I am a firm believer of this. I'll try and post a parse confirming the change, if I can find it.

 

concept84

[target=self] does not produce a valid target, because 'self' is invalid. For this macro to work each line with a target specified needs to be changed to [target=player].

 

MourningWould

Thank you for the clarification. For the sake of sharing the macro I decided to connote it under "target=self," to explain in more of a generalization. To be specific, I use "[target=Mourne]".

 

Feldoth

He means that [target=player] will literally target the player using it, regardless of their name. So therefor for portability nothing could be better. In the same manner, [target=focus] will always target your focus, regardless of who or what it is.

 

insane_machine

I can confirm that Heart Strike is doing absurd amounts of damage on PTR at the moment.

Here's 2 ~15min tests

Live (3851 dps):


PTR (4364 dps):


A quick on the fly comparison indicates that Heart Strike seems to hit on average for ~1.5k more and crit for ~3.5k more. That's a bit over 60% bonus dmg.

Should be noted that both were with same gear, same spec, same wind speed, using Hysteria when trinkets/procs came up, selfbuffed and with no external debuffs on the dummy. However on PTR necrosis was hitting for 1, whereas the live dummy did have a fair amount of hp during test. Both max crits occurred with FC, Greatness, Mjolnir and Hysteria together.

Got to say, the 16k HS made me giggle. Fairly sure I haven't seen such numbers even fully raid buffed on Live.

PS: Blood Caked seems to have a significant damage difference as well.

 

Darian_TruBlade

There does appear to be an increase in BCB damage as well. In order for the difference to be attributed to the RNG you would need to have had an additional 40% crit with BCB on the PTR compared to Live. With the given sample sizes, that's 37 extra crits beyond the average; such a large variance is extremely unlikely.

If the BCB change was proportional (as the Heart Strike change was) then we'd expect the disease bonus to have increased to 50% per, and the total damage to increase from 31.25% weapon damage to 50% weapon damage. However, 50/31.25 is 1.6 and 1439/1099 (average damage PTR/Live for your tests) is only ~1.3. That indicates 40.625% weapon damage, or a 31.25% per disease bonus. Without seeing your actual crit rates it's hard to say for certain if that's actually the change.

"A man's IQ, yearly income, sexual prowess, ingenuity, physical appearance and generally every other aspect of his character can be condensed down to four digits: his Arena rating." - Zechsy [70 Rogue - Skullcrusher (EU) - 10/23/2007]

 

Jaylebate

Just to clarify. This is fixed too. When you have four death runes available, death strike uses the left Deathrune(frost) and the left Deathrune(unholy)

 

lapin

However, I checked yesterday and if you did 2 hs when you had 4 death runes it took the unholy runes first and then the frost runes on the 3rd and 4th hs, just like on live.

 

insane_machine

I might be missing something here, but are you referring to BCB crit rates? Was fairly certain it never crits.