Valtiel

I don't run a GoDisease rotation at the moment, but when I did, the best approach I foundt was handling it as a priority system.

8 over 12 of the runes you will see during a disease cycle can be used to refresh Pestilence. Once you know that, your "rotation" becomes U/F > DS and B/D > HS or Pest depending on the expiration time of diseases. It's a lot easier than most other rotations and it makes timing the Pestilence almost irrelevant in terms of dps (you need to miss 10 shifts by at least 2 seconds to lose a single HS due to not using the full disease uptime).

12 weeks without a Sigil of the Vengeful Heart drop and counting.

 

Orothar

Doing some calculations on Arp I got some results I didnt expect. I always thought the Arp softcap was somewhere around 444 rating, but now it seems its around 567 Rating. Please corerct me if I'm wrong:

The Arp Hard-cap is 90%, since you get 10% from Blood Gorged. (1109 Rating)
The Arp Softcap comes into play if you have a proc Arp trinket like the Mjolnir runestone. (1109 - 665 = 444)
The Arp Soft-cap is 36% (444 Rating with Mjolnir, 497 with Grim)

As a nice reference, check this site out: Arp Simulator

*Edit: I forgot the 10% from BG. Thnx for mentioning Davorian. I updated the numbers above

 

tetracycloide

Doesn't the 21 sec duration of the diseases more or less dictate that you P once per rotation no matter what? I suppose if you timed everything perfectly you could pull of using P at the very very end of one rotation, do a full rotation without a P at all, then put a P at the beginning of the next rotation. Where would you go from there though? 1 second isn't enough time for a full GCD so you could never move it from the first rune in the rotation to the second although you could move it back to the end by refreshing early to prime for a burst rotation with 8xHS later I guess. This all seems very tenuous in actual practice though given movement, fight mechanics, and latency.

My vanity is justified.

 

Davorian

Orothar the soft cap is around 444 rating you are forgetting to include the 10% the blood dks gain from blood gorged.

 

Meygaera

The ArP soft cap has been bothering me too lately.

Currently it shows me having 515 arp with 41.81% reduced armor in the paperdoll. I'm going to assume that doesn't take BG into account, so I have 51.81% reduction with BG. When Grim Toll procs I look at the paperdoll and it says 1127 armor penetration rating and 91.51% reduction. So with BG thats 101.51%, so if the soft cap is 444 rating that should be exactly 100% with BG and grim toll.

so 101.51% - 100.00% = 1.51% that's how much over the cap I am when grim toll procs. However I'm 71 rating over the theoretical 444 soft cap. According to Wowwiki 12.31 rating = 1% armor pen.

71/12.31 = 5.77% so with BG and grim toll I really should be 105.77% but its only 101.51%.

I probably didn't explain this the best way, but is there some sort of DR with rating or the way BG stacks or something? Because that doesn't seem right.

[edit] Thanks insane_machine. I was under the impression that they used grim toll to get 444 soft cap. I guess I thought they had the same ArP for their procs.

Ok with the new sim version 1.0.7.0 Afabar has made it possible to roll diseases with highest AP. This means that it will recast IT and PS when you have more AP than when you previously cast them. The standard 2h Ulduar gear template didn't have trinkets etc checked. So I went ahead and used my own character's template which uses grim toll and victory for the 1008 AP proc. This was run at 100h, with sigil of the vengeful heart. A few more things, GoD replaced GoDD, in the normal blood spec I went 51/0/20 with 1/2 in epidemic and 3/3 morbidity. (I know some ppl go 1/3 morb and 2/2 NotD, but since I used my gear I decided to use my exact spec). With GoD I went 51/0/20 with 2/2 epidemic and 2/3 morbidity. I noticed that 2/2 Epidemic is required for GoD because I ran it with only 1/2 Epidemic and noticed much much less DPS due to the fact that with 150ms listed in the sim, if you cast IT then PS, at the end of the rotation you're FF would run out before you get pestilence in, thus your BP would be refreshed and you FF would not. This was proven because in the report, it showed IT being recasted 116 times while PS was only 66. I went ahead and changed it to 2/2 epidemic and IT was recast only 22 times while PS was casted 10 times. I guess the same thing happened again, but much less often, the pestilence came late and FF ran out while BP remained. Assuming BP never ever fell off, and was recast 10 times, I believe that means it took 10 instances of procs/FC etc to be up before it reached its peak AP. Now for the results:

standard blood 51/0/20
6837 DPS

GoD blood 51/0/20 (2/2 epidemic)
6881 DPS

GoD pulls through, but barely. Once again, this was done with my character template. I can repeat this using 2h Udluar but there don't appear to be any trinkets being used in the default. I could go ahead and check two in different combination if anyone wants.

[edit] Forgot to mention, my character template has 2pc tier 8 and 2pc tier 9

 

insane_machine

I was always under the impression that the 444 soft cap was assuming Mjolnir (665 arpen proc).

1.51% above cap would be ~18 arpen above cap and Grim Toll has 53 less than Mjolnir. So the soft cap for you would be 497 arpen, which is 18 less than 515 and 53 more than 444.

 

dr_AllCOM3

I just tested GoD with Blood in the simulator. I get a steady 150dps over the standard rotation.
Also:

EP:50	Strength	240
EP:50	ArmorPenetrationRating	388
	Template	Blood 51-0-20 GoD
	Priority	Blood GoD

Arp is almost at the cap with EP included (You get less, if you cap it and don't include EP. It adds 50arp).

DocsDK UI
Simulator

 

Megaera

I'm not sure this is especially interesting, but given Doc's recent work out on the increasing value of Apen on its tail end (getting close to hard cap), I decided to sit down to graph out what would happen if I took a gear set (I used my own; I tanked my way through Ulduar so I'm working with scraps, but I thought it would be serviceable for this sort of test) and then incrementally converted Str into Apen (presumably via regemming). My expected result was that changing the number of gems we typically have control over would have a minimal effect, but if we had the ability to convert stats at will you would see an inflection point somewhere down the line where the increased value of Apen as it approaches cap pulled it ahead of Str even at the reduced AP levels.

Looking at it in broad strokes (converting about 250 pts at a time) the DPS remains nearly constant (at least within the noise of the quick-and-dirty 100hr sims I was running) all the way out to 1100 rating. If the results were more promising I'd generate sims at smaller increments and graph it out, but at first glance it looks like forcing our way to the steeper part of the APen curve via gems isn't going to be profitable, and that my expectation was false.

Doc, would you be interested in taking a similar broad-strokes approach with your more interesting t9-based character sheet? It's possible that my gear baseline is just too low to support this (to convert enough Str to get to the APen cap I'm getting down to 1100ish).

 

dr_AllCOM3

It only works with a 244dps or higher weapon. Below that there's a minimal difference. Simply converting Str to Arp doesn't work, since Arp always comes with Str. You are forced to have a good amount of Str anyway.
My values were maybe a bit high. I added 50rp/min and for some reason that lowered the Str EP by a good amount.

DocsDK UI
Simulator

 

Megaera

That makes sense. The underlying thought was that we'd always thrown around AP levels at which switching to gem APen might be profitable, but that maybe we should instead be looking for Apen levels at which it makes sense to regem.

 

• Soilantgreen64

At the current upper gear levels (i.e. all the Uld hard modes, and getting into ilvl 245 gear) it will ALWAYS be best to go ArP over STR until hitting either the soft or hard cap. If you aren't using Mjolnir/GT, then you should basically be gemming all ArP as it is by far the most valuable stat up until you hit the cap.

[e]: At this gear level you should always be past the point previously theorized where you needed more STR before ArP became better.

 

tetracycloide

When the latest results of GoD showing promise of DPS gains it might be worth considering trying to peg Str and Arpen EP given rolling diseases and fallen crusader. It's possible there is an infliction point in Str where 30% more Str applied to a rolling disease outstrips the damage of gemming for Arpen.

My vanity is justified.

 

testament0221

I'm having some frustrating results with GoDisease. Respec'd to pick up 2/2 epidemic, but I'm still having problems with rotation.

Using the following rotation:

IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-Dump-DS-HS-HS-HS-Pest-Dump

HS-HS-HS-HS-DS-Dump-DS-HS-HS-HS-Pest Dump

Okay, I'm making it through the first and second cycle just fine. However, when I repeat the second phase of cycle, I'm constantly having to wait on my second DS, which results in not having time for a third HS. So I end up having to use Pest in place of the third HS. I'm looking at my recount, and I'm not seeing any dodges or anything that would consume a global. Anyone have an idea as to what's going wrong?

edit-At 71ms btw

edit 2- Well, at running several tests on target dummy, the only answer I can come up with is a dodge during the HS phase is screwing the whole rotation up. Currently not exp capped, so I guess that's gonna cause an issue. However, even after getting some smooth rotations, I still don't really like the GoDisease route. It requires a perfect rotation, and perfect circumstances to pull off. If you're off even one global, it screws the whole rotation up. And honestly, in a raid environment, with extra lag, latency etc, this just doesn't seem very practical.

Now I'm sure it shows up as a dps increase in sims and whatnot, but when put into use, it just doesn't hold up when things go wrong...which they will.

This is just my opinion though.

 

Crewell

If your rotation is running into issues it is most likely an Expertise issue with not being capped. That is why, as someone mentioned above, you need to set up a priority type rotation where Pestilence can float to any one of your Heart Strike attacks that you need it to in order to keep diseases up. In essence the rotation becomes similar to the old Unholy rotation. The difference being is where that rotation substituted a Scourge Strike for Icy Touch and Plague Strike if the glyph didn't proc, this rotation substitutes Pestilence for Heart Strikes at any time your diseases are about to drop. Your rotation looks something more like this:

First rotation:
IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-dump
DS-HS*-HS*-HS*-HS*-dump

After that the rotation shifts to this:
HS*-HS*-HS*-HS*-DS-dump
DS-HS*-HS*-HS*-HS*-dump

HS* = Use Pestilence if diseases have less than 2 seconds left (you don't want them to drop in a global cooldown or from a lag spike), otherwise use Heart Strike.

 

testament0221

Okay, well that clears things up a little bit. I was under the impression that everybody that was using GoDisease are having perfect rotations. However, if it's common practice to float a pest in place of HS's as needed, then maybe I will take GoDisease past the target dummy.

Now, a little off topic. Since I'm having some issues with the rotation due to dodges, I wonder if it would be worth regemming expertise to hit the cap? I have no idea where I'm going to get a piece of expertise gear, as I'm already juggling my hit cap as well. This would require a loss of about 4-5 +20str gems to accomplish this. And the thought of losing ~200ap for expertise makes me cringe.

 

tetracycloide

Try shifting the P in the first and second cycles to something more like this:

IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-Dump-DS-HS-HS-HS-Dump Pest

HS-HS-HS-HS-DS-Dump-DS-HS-HS-HS-Dump Pest

On the first two cycles you want to hold off your Pest until the disease timer is almost expired even up to the point of hitting it as soon as the death rune for the first HS comes up because you still have the 2 sec buffer on the rune cooldowns if you need it. Obviously if there's a dodge problem or a time on target issue and there's only time for one GCD on a blood/death rune before diseases are up then use Pest no matter where in the 'rotation' you fall but on a target dummy, with 21 secs for diseases and 20 secs for a complete pair of rune cooldowns there shouldn't be a problem unless latency is really high.

My vanity is justified.

 

santhsonys

im not sure if uou dont want me to ask this but for 50/0/20 what sigilshould be used?

 

Krom[Fenris]

Unfortunately there aren't many good choices for sigils at level 79. When you hit 80 tho, I'd suggest picking up a Sigil of the Vengeful Heart.

 

Riz

Yes, either the SotVH or you could pick up the venture bay sigil. Capture the area to open the quest and the vendor, do a few quest and buy it.

 

gogolack

Are you guys 100% positive that Blood Gorged applies the way you think?

I always assumed that if a mob had 10k armor, Sunder made it 8k, Blood gorged made that 7.2k, and then your Armor Penetration went to work, meaning you could still get up to 100% ArP.

But you guys are saying because of Blood Gorged, our ArP cap is actually 90%, meaning it simply adds 10% to our armor ignore %.

Which is correct? Cause this makes a dramatic difference to gearing around the Runestone/Grim Tol.

 

• frmorrison

This is correct. So Blood DK ArP soft cap is around 440 with the Stone and an Oblit Unholy ArP cap is around 550 with the Stone.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

el-es-dee

Yea, that's why my rotation was getting screwed up.

I ended up buying the sigil and running with this spec.
51/13/7 The World of Warcraft Armory

The 7 Pts in unholy is untill epidemic 2/2
In frost I went to 3/3 Anihalation. I also took Toughness for the increase to AP from the blood tree.
In the blood tree I droped Imp Death Strike and picked up Improved blood presence, and 1/3 vendeta.
Glyphed for Oblit.

I ran in at hit OB to try and get the proc from the sigil and throw up your dots.

 

Terror

If ArP has an APE value of 2.75 up to and at soft cap, then how much is it worth after cap? I'm asking because I know that Hit is similar in that it's valued at 2.51 up to and at cap while only being worth 0.52 thereafter. Thanks in advance. Blood ftw.

 

dr_AllCOM3

There is no answer, since it's not linear. Grab the sim and get the value yourself. That's the only way.

DocsDK UI
Simulator

 

Rikdot

Ive been wondering lately about the P2T9 and 2PT8 being better then the 4PT8. As its not implented into the Sim yet i wonder if there is a way to calc this , i myself am not a genious on this. The thing about the 2PT9 is that it has an internal cooldown of 45 secs and a proc chance of 50% on HS, wich is the ability most used in blood.