AtheistGod

Diseases and BcB matter to neither.

assume you have 0% crit and the meta gem for 3% crit damage.
if your damage break up is as follows

30% HS
25% melee
12% DS
12% DC
5% Necrosis
4% BP
4% FF
3% BcB
3% PS
2% IT

1% crit = 1.5235 * (.3 + .12) + 1.06 * (.25 + .12 + .05 + .03 + .02)
1.13807% damage increase

1% melee crit = 1.5235 * (.3 + .12) + 1.06 * (.25 + .05 + .03)
0.98967% damage increase

So in this case Agi is 86.96% of optimal value in relationship to crit rating.(note that is optimal value from crit, it still is 100% of optimal value from the armor)
Yet only 75% of your damage was in attacks affected by melee crit.

About the STR/AP number it is because of the ghoul. The ghoul benefits from STR, pretty decently too at a 1.3* your STR without the glyph. However it gains no benefit from AP. So as you stack stats that benefit you but not your ghoul the benefit STR gives to the ghoul is lessened in comparison to what STR and AP do to your damage. I was thinking that if haste benefits your ghoul it will be a higher % increase there than it is to you and thus increase the value of STR accordingly.

 

• Darkside

I think that for Blood, the damage contribution from the ghoul is small enough that it can largely be neglected when calculating stat weights. On most fights, our zombie friend isn't alive long enough to deal more than about 10k-20k damage. The differences that would result from incorporating the ghoul into the calculations are so small that you won't notice them at all when compiling together a BiS list.

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

Melchior

What about calculating these weights assuming 3/3 RD and 2/2 NotD?

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Junon.png

 

AtheistGod

With 0 haste benefit but benefiting from your 10% AP the ghoul will add .204 DPS per STR while it's up. That is not a lot but it is enough to alter STR's APE by as much as .2 even with <=40% uptime. It can't be entirely discounted.

 

Kankersore

How much ArP is a good number to shoot for? Currently I have about 40% ArP + 10% Blood Gorged. This is also before my Mjolnir Runestone proc which would take it up to 100% for 10 sec. I've read alot of posts here on EJ about BIS ArP gear combos but nobody says a good # to shoot for. Most BIS threads are between 400-600 ArP that i've seen. I personally am looking to drop a tad to get my expertise closer to cap and make sure I have 8% hit (I'm currently at 7% +1 from dranei but relying on that isn't viable 24/7 in raid).

 

Jelleh

Hi

This is my first post on these forums and I apologise if I am discussing something that has been brought to a conclusion before but I have been unable to find any posts on it. I am currently in a 10 man only guild and have just got enough Emblems to get [Sigil of Awareness] which I have assumed is the first real upgrade for me as blood dps. The only issue I'm having with buying it is that from my understanding the only part of Death Strike (DS) that scales with diseases is the healing you get back from it whilst Heart Strike's (HS) damage done scales with diseases. Combining this with the fact that due to the rune cost of DS and HS I find myself using HS in rotations more frequently than DS I wonder whether the starter sigil [Sigil of the Dark Rider] is actually better as an overall DPS increase. Can anyone quash this potentially silly thought I'm having?

 

Niightblade

Is there an up-to-date ranking of trinkets for Blood spec somewhere? I couldn't find a recent one.

 

Doomers

Blood loot weights - this link, given in first post, maybe helpful. Don't forget to change the weights accordingly if you're hit/exp caped.

 

Thix

That list is highly inaccurate. It's ranking the trinkets by static equip values alone and ignoring the use/proc effects. Lootrank probably gives a more (but not entirely) accurate comparison. ([Madness of the Betrayer] at #6 for instance?)

 

Doomers

I wrote - may be helpful, just as maxdps.com also may be helpful.

 

Jelleh

Okay, I was infracted for my previous post and I understand that. I am relatively new here despite having lurked for a fair few months. I believe my post may have been worded in such a way that led people to believe I was asking for hand holding and not trying to contribute constructively to the discussion.

What I was trying to say is that I have had trouble locating the maths to support using [Sigil of Awareness] over [Sigil of the Dark Rider]. Given that an average Blood DPS rotation can consist of up to 4 x more HS than DS and HS damage done seems to scale with diseases whereas only DS healing done scales with diseases the choice does not seem clear cut to me.

Lets say you're using 3 or 4 HS for every 1 DS. This equates to a bonus of 270 - 360 damage done using [Sigil of the Dark Rider] per rotation over a damage increase of 315 per rotation using [Sigil of Awareness]. This is before you take into account the scaling of HS damage with diseases.

I know people will refer me to the first post that states [Sigil of Awareness] as being the superior Sigil but what I'm asking for is how exactly this is worked out. Maybe I misunderstand the DK class mechanics as a whole and am being extremely stupid but using the (oh so efficient) search function I have been unable to find the maths or testing to support the choice. If this is yet another infractable post then so be it but I feel like this is a potentially controversial idea and I want to know why it's so controversial.

 

Lollersk8er

3x 45 = 135 (Yes, it only adds 45)
1x 315 = 315
That's elementary school math. You could have done that by yourself.

 

frigginwizard

on the topic of stats weight, str has been put above arp, but I was under the impression that armor pen became more valuable the more you gain. So if you stack armor pen gems is it a DPS loss still? or does the increased armor pen increase the value and net a gain?

 

Lujaar

Good point about the HSx2.

Glyph of disease still doesn't seem worth it though. 1077 damage over two rune sets is about 54 dps. If I remember the numbers right for the DRW and Dark Death glyphs, that's pretty close to what they contribute. Using Glyph of Disease probably means you have to run 2/2 epidemic. If you consider the second point in epidemic to be worth zero dps, that eats up most of the benefit.

Like you said though the 1077 damage number shouldn't be taken as gospel and you've shown that at least it's not a DPS loss to use Glyph of Disease, so the glyph might be worth a second look.

 

Stoical

You mean like he did do, in the exact portion of the post you quoted? He did the same math as you, only using 90 instead of 45, which isn't exactly an obvious mistake given that the tooltip says "Increases the damage dealt by your Blood Strike and Heart Strike by 90."

Jelleh: There hasn't been much discussion of it on these boards, but as the post I quoted points out, despite the misleading tooltip, the sigil appears to only add 45 instead of 90, so right there you can see your own math flip the other way. If you do a google search for something like "dark rider" "45 damage" you'll find some other forums with posts about it. I haven't confirmed whether this is still the case and you won't see much testing of it here because Vengeful Heart is much better, so the analysis is Awareness vs. Vengeful Heart.

 

Kankersore

BUMP! Still trying to get some feedback on this if possible.

 

Darzog

There definitely has been discussion on these boards about the Sigil of Dark Rider, you certainly don't need to use google to find out what you want to know. For example: this link.

 

Nen

495 or so, with BG you are at 50% without a trinket proc.

 

tetracycloide

I don't think that HSx2 is exactly the gain. Take the standard rotation:

IT PS HS HS DS
DS HS HS HS HS
repeat

So 6xHS 2xDS 1xIT 1xPS

No convert it to a pestilance rotation:

IT PS HS HS DS
DS HS HS HS P
to start diseases

HS HS HS HS DS
DS HS HS HS P
repeat

So after getting into the rotation (which takes longer)
7xHS 2xDS 1xP

The real comparison is 1xHS + 1xP vs 1xIT + 1xPS + one major glyph + 1 talent point.

My vanity is justified.

 

Jelleh

Thank you Stoical for at least acknowledging my point. I knew there had to be a reason why the consensus was that [Sigil of Awareness] was better but because I didn't know that [Sigil of the Dark Rider] only added 45 dmg I couldn't understand it. Although I generally trust the opinions of people on here as it is all backed up I am not one to blindly follow advice, I like to know why I'm taking one piece of gear over another.

And to those that felt it necessary to insult my ability to do maths or use the search function I can only say that you are being rudely dismissive. My maths was fine but I was unaware of a tooltip displaying incorrect information and the only reason I posted something was because my searching had been fruitless. The post that was linked was buried 30 pages deep in quite an old Blood DPS thread, I had looked but didn't find it.

Thank you for your advice nonetheless.

 

j0rd4n

I seem to remember reading in some other thread that Armor Penetration becomes a higher value stat than Strength after 6200AP. I cannot find the original source of this information. Can anybody comment on this or provide any more information?

 

ksearo

It is in the OPs first post, last sentence of "Hit and Expertise" under "Gearing and Stat Weights."

I, however, do not know if these models take into account the cap that will be placed on ArP.

 

Rurahk

Original post is here. There's no math that I have ever found that backs this up (which really is unsurprising given how unintuitive armor calculations are), however it should be fairly simple to test this out in Rawr, spreadsheets, and/or sims.

 

Polimera

In reply to the 44/0/27, alot of people might be skeptic, but seeing as my gear is relatively 'cheap' (mostly t7.10 pieces and 1 or 2 t7.25 here and there) I was pushing (and still am) great dps.
I have yet to compare it to 50/0/21 or even a deep Unholy Spec, but as for now I am pretty satisfied.
I have questions regarding Necrosis and Dark conviction.
Some of my guildies has told me that in the long run Dark conviction doesnt give out as much dps as say more points into Necrosis.
Is he right?

 

RADRyanD

This is more of a gear question that I need some opinions on.

Everywhere I go I read that [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] and [Mjolnir Runestone] as the top two trinkets for Blood. [Grim Toll] is rated on several of my spreadsheets and Rawr as a increase in DPS over [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]. Since there is no current cap on ArP, is there a reason for not using double ArP trinkets?