Let's assume for a moment that Glyph of Disease is worth taking. This means we lose Glyph of DD and 1 in Morbidity into Epidemic. My question is, does this make Sigil of Awareness now the choice of sigil over Sigil of Vengeful Heart?
Second question...would it be better, in the case of using GoD...that we take NOTD over BCB and move 1 from BCB to retain 3/3 Morbidity?
1. No
2. No, keep 3/3 BCB 2/2 epidemic and 2/3 Morbidity with GoD
Expertise does not reward you per rating. It rewards you when you've reached enough rating to get 1 value (Something like 8.1 rating for 1 point of expertise, I forget). So, if you add 10 expertise rating, but only needed 4 to reach the next value, thats 6 points of wasted itemization.
If I'm wrong please do correct me somebody, but based on how the character sheet updates with the addition of expertise, this seems correct.
blood's strength is single target, and has comparitively weak AOE compared to some of the other DK specs. Is dropping 200 strength for 200 armor pen and seeing a 2% increase on SOME fights worth when its a substantial loss on AOE?
Again with the false and unfair claim of "substantial AOE DPS Loss?" Can we try to discuss this within the realms of realism?
You use DnD on one single pull as a DPS DK, and that is Freya lasher phase. In all of Ulduar there is literally not 3 unique trash pulls where you use DnD. Hell I can't think of ONE except pulling too many Hodir trash at once.
It is a rather irritating debating tactic the way you make one side seem miniscule (2% increase on SOME fights) and then make your side seem dramatic by comparison (Substantial DPS loss) while ignoring all the information that disputes such a claim. So 99% of the fights in game are just "SOME fights" now? Who are you fooling here, besides yourself?
Single or two target (relevant for heart strikes which benefit more from ArP) is 99% of this game. XT favors ArP. Iron council favors ArP. Thorim favors ArP (Blood optimizes DPS by going diseaseless in arena). Hodir favors neither (Since the magic damage bonus bridges the gap and makes Str equal), Freya favors ArP for 5/7th of the fight (2/7 being 2 lasher phases) for a net gain in ArP over Strength, Kologarn favors ArP, Auriaya favors ArP, Mimiron favors ArP, Vezax favors ArP, and Yogg favors ArP heavily in all forms except 0 keeper where they're equal as Str is better for P3 while ArP is better for P1/2. Algalon favors ArP. Ignis favors ArP. Razorscale favors ArP. In ToC, all 4/4 released bosses heavily favor ArP.
So, lets quit spreading what we know are falsehoods and state our points from a realistic perspective. ArP isn't a 2% increase on SOME fights, its an increase on well over 90% of end game fights. And that substantial AOE DPS you like to dramatize is an extremely insignificant ~3-5% loss in AoE damage WHEN there are enough mobs to use DnD and Blood Boil spam, which is ONE single occurance in Ulduar or ToC, which is yet again, Freya lashers.
You can choose to pass on a 2% increase in DPS on nearly every boss fight in favor of doing 12,000 DPS vs Freya Lashers instead of 11,500 if that suits your playstyle better. But for those of us intent on min/maxing our characters and optimizing our overall DPS, ArP is the way to go over Strength.
As for ArP's affect on Dancing Rune Weapon, I'm unsure. If its affected by haste I don't see why it wouldn't be affected by Armor Pen. Either way, I know they're changing something in the future to make pets scale with stats like ArP. I'm in the dark on this subject but if it doesn't work now it really doesn't change anything in the Strength vs Armor Pen argument, espicially with the announced change. Either way, ArP's advantage over Strength is cut down by no more than 3-5% IF this is true. So, if ArP is a 2% DPS upgrade gemmed over Strength, the point you bought up would make that 1.80-1.86% better than Str. Not significant enough to change anything.
ArP is the clear winner, I see no logic nor merit in your attempts to justify gemming Strength. Its a rather indisputable fact that ArP up to your soft/hardcap will simply add more DPS by the end of an Ulduar or ToC raid than an equal amount of Strength, why are you choosing to just pass on better damage so you can do better vs one add phase vs Freya?
I believe he's talking about expertise being truncated (and thus losing part of the value).
Can anyone here confirm if this is true? I remember seeing posts on the rogue thread few months ago proofing hat expertise do not truncate (and the actual dodge cap is somewhere around 25.5 expertise, but I didn''t follow through.
I'm currently at 24/24 (154 ratings)and hit capped, and gemming one should put me over cap, so I decided not to, just not sure if it's worth gemming for it to reach the cap.
If I'm wrong please do correct me somebody, but based on how the character sheet updates with the addition of expertise, this seems correct.
The character sheet truncates expertise, the actual dodge calculations do not. This has been well documented on the rogue boards and there was something of a stir over AEP values when this fact was revealed in testing back in Feb (maybe even earlier).
First post here, so hopefully I don't make a fool of myself.
Basically, I'm wondering if the stat weights from the OP of this thread are still accurate for Blood builds as of 3.2? I've been using them to measure gear by but have heard a growing amount of people claiming they're out of date and shouldn't be used.
I waded through this bloated thread for some time, trying to pick up on the general feeling about armor penetration, in regards to cap and value. It was rather difficult, but i got the sense that most people have stopped stacking armor pen at ~444 if they are wearing a Grim Toll. This would suggest to me that the current consensus on these forms is that the hard ArPen cap is:
(612+444)=1056
1056 = 90% + (10% from Blood Gorged)
Now, straightforwardly, this seems to make sense. However, in my quest to determine the most efficient way to gear, I came upon Ghostcrawlers explanation of the ArPen mechanic, which in itself contained a brief explanation of the armor mechanic. I quote the relevant part of that post here:
Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C. C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):
If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59);
For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.
The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.
A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).
I'd like to break this down a little further, to scrutinize.
Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C. C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):
If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59);
For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.
This simple tells us that a level 83 raid boss has an 'Armor Constant' of 16635.
Next he talks about the ArPen 'cap,' which is where my dilemma begins to unfold.
The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.
Let us use this information, along with the knowledge of raid bosses having an armor value of 13083 to determine what our ArPen 'cap' is.
(13083 + 16635) / 3 = 9906
So Ghostcrawler tells us that the ArPen 'cap' is 9906.
He goes on to give us an example of how ArPen works:
A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).
Allow me to remove the word problem and create an equation:
So, this is my theory. Feedback is welcomed and expected. Please tear it apart and find a flaw, that's why i am presenting it here. Furthermore, if this has already been determined, proved, debunked, etc. I apologize for my inability to discover it in this post.
When I was below Exp soft cap, it hurt my dps a little bit on those like kologarn, auriaya and yogg. There are some fights which requires you to be in front of the boss at all times or some of the time. Which if your not expertise soft cap, you will notice that you'll be seeing more dodge on top of the parry you'll be getting. Gemming for Expertise is a good idea imo.
First off, as stated many places, Kologarn does not parry. Secondly, the value of expertise can be calculated just like the value of any other stat for overall average dps. According to all research done in this thread, expertise will not increase your dps as much as an ilvl equal amount of strength and in most cases armor pen. What expertise will do is reduce rotation issues due to excessive dodges.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation flying around this thread. I would caution anyone looking for quick answers to first check the original post & secondly read back in the thread for more detailed discussion on specific details. Some of the things posted on the last couple pages were posted without sufficient data backing them up.
edit:
I was mistaken about the highlighted portion. My thanks to Bonecaller for pointing out that I was looking at dated values. This makes my second paragraph all the more important. If you want to be sure your information is correct, it's important to check & double check.
I have been under the assumption 100% or there abouts was the ArP cap and since I have never managed to get the Toll or the runestone (its dropped once in 3months).
So I have been geming and gearing for ArP since then, I have managed to get almost 70% passive ArP with gems and gear then with our 10% buff and 20% from surrender I am at 100% ArP in raids. with 6.2k raid buffed AP.
However when looking at the new BiS info it seems that the theroy is not to have any ArP trinkets but the new Deaths Choice trink. So I am under the impersion strength is now the way to go, just going with ArP on gear itself rather than gemming.
Looking at other blood DKs I have seen very few actaully gem for ArP without the use of the trinket, would it be better for me to go fully strength? I have not seen any data on when gemming for ArP without the ArP trinket becomes better than gemming strength.
So, this is my theory. Feedback is welcomed and expected. Please tear it apart and find a flaw, that's why i am presenting it here. Furthermore, if this has already been determined, proved, debunked, etc. I apologize for my inability to discover it in this post.
If I remember correctly, they implemented the hard cap on armor pen because before people would stack GT and MR with full armor pen gems to go far over 100% armor pen and make the target have effectively negative armor. This function had an infinite discontinuity somewhere around -300% armor where the damage done would -> infinity. To my knowledge they didn't change the function, but rather put the 100% cap on it to limit how close people could get to the discontinuity. I tested regemming with all armor pen, putting me over the cap and the tooltip didn't go over 100% (with GT and MR procs on my druid), and I didn't see any significant damage increase going from 100% to >100% armor pen on the boss test dummy.
If I remember correctly, they implemented the hard cap on armor pen because before people would stack GT and MR with full armor pen gems to go far over 100% armor pen and make the target have effectively negative armor. This function had an infinite discontinuity somewhere around -300% armor where the damage done would -> infinity. To my knowledge they didn't change the function, but rather put the 100% cap on it to limit how close people could get to the discontinuity. I tested regemming with all armor pen, putting me over the cap and the tooltip didn't go over 100% (with GT and MR procs on my druid), and I didn't see any significant damage increase going from 100% to >100% armor pen on the boss test dummy.
I see. So the 'Hard Cap' is actually a programmed stop on ArPen gains rather than an effective loss of gain cap. If this is the case, then clearly my calculations mean nothing. This evening, if the servers ever come back online, I will do some testing as well, and see what i can discover.
I see. So the 'Hard Cap' is actually a programmed stop on ArPen gains rather than an effective loss of gain cap. If this is the case, then clearly my calculations mean nothing. This evening, if the servers ever come back online, I will do some testing as well, and see what i can discover.
You could save yourself the trouble of doing in game tests by running some searches on the forums. The implications of an armor pen cap and the possibility that it meant either taking the target to 0 armor or a total of 100% penetration were well known before the cap went live and were throughly tested afterward so they could be accuratly modeled. Try looking in the rogue, warrior, and shaman forums if you cannot find anything here as I am positive the tests were done and posted shortly after the patch that included the armor pen cap went live.
I posted this question in the DK simple answers thread about a week ago and didn't get a reply so I decided to post it here:
The standard rotation in the blood thread is:
IT-PS-HS-HS-DS -DUMP- DS-HS-HS-HS-HS -Dump-
However sometimes I see myself with 2 blood runes and 2 death runes after I restart with IT and PS and what I end up doing is HSx4 at the beginning of my rotation instead of at the end. So it ends up like this:
IT-PS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DS-DUMPx1-HS-HS-DS-DUMPx2
Is this a lesser dps rotation? I still have room for dump phases and my DS still always have atleast 25 RP.
Infact sometimes with the standard rotation's 2nd DS I see myself with only 20RP and I'm losing 5% extra damage on it because the first dump phase generally has 2 GCD's worth of time for 2 DC's.
I also noticed that if you start with: (suggested "starting" rotation from blood thread)
DS-IT-PS-HS-HS--Raise Ghoul-DC-HS-HS-DS-HS-HS -Dump
You finish off with 2 deathrunes, 2 bloodrunes, and U/Fx1 left for IT and PS so you can go right into HSx4 at the start of your rotation anyways.
So my question is, would doing this rotation be a loss of DPS? Could it possibly be an increase with my DS's always having atleast 25 RP?
You could save yourself the trouble of doing in game tests by running some searches on the forums. The implications of an armor pen cap and the possibility that it meant either taking the target to 0 armor or a total of 100% penetration were well known before the cap went live and were throughly tested afterward so they could be accuratly modeled. Try looking in the rogue, warrior, and shaman forums if you cannot find anything here as I am positive the tests were done and posted shortly after the patch that included the armor pen cap went live.
It's in the combat ratings thread around page 15 or 16 that the discussion starts.
So I must ask, does anyone have 4/5 t9 yet, and if so, have you tested it's uses with GoD? I can only imagine that a disease ticking for >1k (assuming you pop both diseases at the perfect time and manage to keep them up) along with crits for >2k would be quite a big DPS increase over 15% DC damage. When you think about it, this spec will clearly pull ahead with some decent gear/trinkets and 4 piece t9, you would be using a priority system of IT/PS > all when you have maximum DPS procs, then Pest> HS with <3 seconds left on diseases, HS with spare blood runes, DS with any remaining UF runes, and while thats a bit more confusing and a lot harder to map out then a simple rotation, it seems to me that you'll have a lot more Heart Strikes and Death Strikes that way, which would clearly be more DPS then 1 IT 1 PS every 20 seconds and having to worry about making sure you can have those runes set up that way.
So I must ask, does anyone have 4/5 t9 yet, and if so, have you tested it's uses with GoD? I can only imagine that a disease ticking for >1k (assuming you pop both diseases at the perfect time and manage to keep them up) along with crits for >2k would be quite a big DPS increase over 15% DC damage. When you think about it, this spec will clearly pull ahead with some decent gear/trinkets and 4 piece t9, you would be using a priority system of IT/PS > all when you have maximum DPS procs, then Pest> HS with <3 seconds left on diseases, HS with spare blood runes, DS with any remaining UF runes, and while thats a bit more confusing and a lot harder to map out then a simple rotation, it seems to me that you'll have a lot more Heart Strikes and Death Strikes that way, which would clearly be more DPS then 1 IT 1 PS every 20 seconds and having to worry about making sure you can have those runes set up that way.
I don't have 4 piece t9, but still decided to try out GoD. From my personal experience I was pretty happy with it, and would say that it is irreplaceable for heavier movement fights. Here's a link to Freya HM, I was pleased with the results..
And the HM General wasn't that bad either.. I haven't really noticed a big change in overall DPS in stationary fights, but a pretty big one on anything where movement eats up your dots ticks and makes you devote more time to putting the dots up. It's much easier for the third phase in Yogg to just refresh your dots with one GCD and not waste time with reapplying for the 6-8 seconds of DPS time you have to him.
First off, as stated many places, Kologarn does not parry. Secondly, the value of expertise can be calculated just like the value of any other stat for overall average dps. According to all research done in this thread, expertise will not increase your dps as much as an ilvl equal amount of strength and in most cases armor pen. What expertise will do is reduce rotation issues due to excessive dodges.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation flying around this thread. I would caution anyone looking for quick answers to first check the original post & secondly read back in the thread for more detailed discussion on specific details. Some of the things posted on the last couple pages were posted without sufficient data backing them up.
Thats not correct. I ran my simulation for ilvl245 gear without any gems and expertise is a lot higher valued than strength.
I see, that many try to use their OLD statweights, but they change. If i gem only for strength, i have 2100 or even more strength unbuffed. And that is what you have to compare.
EG my simulations for 2000 strength and 500 APr showed that crit and haste were valued around to 2.4 -2.5, strength was 2.86 and expertise was around 3.7, hit around 5 and armor penetration arount 3.5 . THose stat weights arent fixed values as for now, crit,haste, ... get better compared to attackpower/strength, the more attackpower you have.
So gemming for expertise and hitcap is in my opinio absolutely the best dps choice. You cant take all the old stat weights as exact numbers as they were worked out for naxx gear.
I can post my numbers for 1850 strength, a value, which will be achieved simply by ilvl245 items without gemming.
So if you gem for more strength, the values with (*) behind will get more value compared to strength and ATP.
Originally Posted by APox
I don't have 4 piece t9, but still decided to try out GoD. From my personal experience I was pretty happy with it, and would say that it is irreplaceable for heavier movement fights. Here's a link to Freya HM, I was pleased with the results..
And the HM General wasn't that bad either.. I haven't really noticed a big change in overall DPS in stationary fights, but a pretty big one on anything where movement eats up your dots ticks and makes you devote more time to putting the dots up. It's much easier for the third phase in Yogg to just refresh your dots with one GCD and not waste time with reapplying for the 6-8 seconds of DPS time you have to him.
It's not about being bad, it's about being better with dark death glyph.
Yeah, that glyph has its advantages on fights with low movement and adds, but that's not what ist important. When we talk about optimization, then we talk about 2-4% of damage. You can stll have good dps results without a third glyph at all so it says nothing. Older calculations showed that glyph of disease wasn't even a net dps win compared to having no third glyph at all, especially compared to using a third glyph like dark death.
Thats not correct. I ran my simulation for ilvl245 gear without any gems and expertise is a lot higher valued than strength.
I see, that many try to use their OLD statweights, but they change. If i gem only for strength, i have 2100 or even more strength unbuffed. And that is what you have to compare.
EG my simulations for 2000 strength and 500 APr showed that crit and haste were valued around to 2.4 -2.5, strength was 2.86 and expertise was around 3.7, hit around 5 and armor penetration arount 3.5 . THose stat weights arent fixed values as for now, crit,haste, ... get better compared to attackpower/strength, the more attackpower you have.
So gemming for expertise and hitcap is in my opinio absolutely the best dps choice. You cant take all the old stat weights as exact numbers as they were worked out for naxx gear.
I can post my numbers for 1850 strength, a value, which will be achieved simply by ilvl245 items without gemming.
So if you gem for more strength, the values with (*) behind will get more value compared to strength and ATP.
It's not about being bad, it's about being better with dark death glyph.
Yeah, that glyph has its advantages on fights with low movement and adds, but that's not what ist important. When we talk about optimization, then we talk about 2-4% of damage. You can stll have good dps results without a third glyph at all so it says nothing. Older calculations showed that glyph of disease wasn't even a net dps win compared to having no third glyph at all, especially compared to using a third glyph like dark death.
A couple notes:
You're saying that haste is more valuable than crit for a Blood DK, and that agility and haste values increase as your strength does.. Obviously hit and expertise outshine strength at certain points (pre-hit/expertise cap), but not beyond that, you don't have to take out all of your strength gems to attain either of those goals, and saying that strength at higher values becomes less useful than your secondary stats just does not make sense.
And as I said in my post, it is better in fights with high amounts of movement, not fights with low amounts of movement. The extra heartstrike in the GoD rotation and the ability to roll dots, I have found, negates the damage from GoDD on stationary fights, and more than outshines GoDD on fights where you have to move a lot. So "I" would be telling "you" (I don't know where the "we" in regards to optimization came from), that not using the glyph is a dps loss in any fight with more than one mob (Kologarn, General Hard Mode, Yogg), fights where you have to move a lot (Council, HM Freya, Mimiron), and will be nearly the same on fights such as Razor, XT, and Ignis.
You've managed to click a button on a sim and then get this grandiose feeling that you now know everything about a DK. I'm glad you think what you do about your stats, and that not even having a 3rd glyph would be better than having GoD, but in my opinion you're flat out wrong, and you haven't really said anything other than a retort to my post that doesn't make a damn bit of sense. I think I'll stray from this thread now, because obviously the people that post on it don't even take the time to read the original post or the stickies on this forum, where it even says that GoD should overtake GoDD.
I really don't mind having someone disagree with me, but you're just spewing random numbers and quick facts that don't make a bit of sense.
Edit: P.S., anything with a value over "1" will be higher in comparison to attack power because it is the base as to which everything else is compared.
Thats not correct. I ran my simulation for ilvl245 gear without any gems and expertise is a lot higher valued than strength.
I see, that many try to use their OLD statweights, but they change. If i gem only for strength, i have 2100 or even more strength unbuffed. And that is what you have to compare.
EG my simulations for 2000 strength and 500 APr showed that crit and haste were valued around to 2.4 -2.5, strength was 2.86 and expertise was around 3.7, hit around 5 and armor penetration arount 3.5 . THose stat weights arent fixed values as for now, crit,haste, ... get better compared to attackpower/strength, the more attackpower you have.
So gemming for expertise and hitcap is in my opinio absolutely the best dps choice. You cant take all the old stat weights as exact numbers as they were worked out for naxx gear.
I can post my numbers for 1850 strength, a value, which will be achieved simply by ilvl245 items without gemming.
So if you gem for more strength, the values with (*) behind will get more value compared to strength and ATP.
The general theory makes perfect sense to me. The flat stat weights posted in the OP have been bothering me for some time now. The values with (*) scale by percentage, whereas the values of Str, AP, and Weapon DPS are a flat delta. If there are no diminishing returns on the rating to percentage conversion (and I haven't heard of any DR for hit, exp, crit, etc.), at some point with enough base dmg (ie. AP) the marginal value of an additional point in Str is going to be overtaken by the marginal value of a point in ArPen or Hit.
One simple example: before melee cap, 1 pt in Hit will give you about 1/32.79 == 0.03% improved chance to hit, which we can reasonably say is a 0.03% increase in dps. For any given EP value of Str, one can find a total EP score where an additional point in Hit will result in a higher dps increase than an additional point in Str.
Let's say we take the value for Str given in the latest Blood weights from Zerack's sheet: 2.82.
Value of 1 pt of Hit before cap: (1/32.79) / 100 * EP
So the EP needed for marginal value of Hit to overtake marginal value of Str = EP(1Str) * 100 * 32.79 = 2.82 * 100 * 32.79 = 9247
Does this make sense to anyone? Is there anything I've missed about the behavior of these stats?
I posted this question in the DK simple answers thread about a week ago and didn't get a reply so I decided to post it here:
The standard rotation in the blood thread is:
IT-PS-HS-HS-DS -DUMP- DS-HS-HS-HS-HS -Dump-
However sometimes I see myself with 2 blood runes and 2 death runes after I restart with IT and PS and what I end up doing is HSx4 at the beginning of my rotation instead of at the end. So it ends up like this:
IT-PS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DS-DUMPx1-HS-HS-DS-DUMPx2
Is this a lesser dps rotation? I still have room for dump phases and my DS still always have atleast 25 RP.
Infact sometimes with the standard rotation's 2nd DS I see myself with only 20RP and I'm losing 5% extra damage on it because the first dump phase generally has 2 GCD's worth of time for 2 DC's.
I also noticed that if you start with: (suggested "starting" rotation from blood thread)
DS-IT-PS-HS-HS--Raise Ghoul-DC-HS-HS-DS-HS-HS -Dump
You finish off with 2 deathrunes, 2 bloodrunes, and U/Fx1 left for IT and PS so you can go right into HSx4 at the start of your rotation anyways.
So my question is, would doing this rotation be a loss of DPS? Could it possibly be an increase with my DS's always having atleast 25 RP?
IT>PS>HS>HS>HS>HS
DS>dc>HS>HS>DS>dc(>dc)
The above rotation is a DPS loss in the long run because you will end up waiting a short time for your final rune of the second DS sometimes. If you want to front-load your HS after finding yourself needing to reapply diseases with UFDDBB up, you want to do this instead so your rune timing lines up:
IT>PS>HS>HS>HS>HS(>dc)
DS>dc>HS>HS>DS>dc
The problem is, you can't start with the above rotation or switch to the above rotation from a starter rotation without idle time, so basically you only use it after forced idle time.
Try starting with this instead:
DS>PS>IT>HS>dc>HS>ghoul
HS>HS>DS>HS>dc>HS
...then repeat...
DS>PS>IT>dc>HS>HS
HS>HS>DS>dc(>dc)>HS>HS
...to get essentially the same effect on DS without the rune timing problems.
Note that the repeating portion is essentially equivalent to...
It's not about being bad, it's about being better with dark death glyph.
Yeah, that glyph has its advantages on fights with low movement and adds, but that's not what ist important. When we talk about optimization, then we talk about 2-4% of damage. You can stll have good dps results without a third glyph at all so it says nothing. Older calculations showed that glyph of disease wasn't even a net dps win compared to having no third glyph at all, especially compared to using a third glyph like dark death.
My question however, was particularly about the use of GoD with 4/5 t9, due to the crit chance, I would think that having 2 diseases ticking as if all your trinkets/abilities/runeforges/Heroism/etc etc were proc'd, ticking that way for the remainder of the boss fight, and criting for 2k+ Would be a big DPS increase over using GoDD.
You're saying that haste is more valuable than crit for a Blood DK, and that agility and haste values increase as your strength does.. Obviously hit and expertise outshine strength at certain points (pre-hit/expertise cap), but not beyond that, you don't have to take out all of your strength gems to attain either of those goals, and saying that strength at higher values becomes less useful than your secondary stats just does not make sense.
And as I said in my post, it is better in fights with high amounts of movement, not fights with low amounts of movement. The extra heartstrike in the GoD rotation and the ability to roll dots, I have found, negates the damage from GoDD on stationary fights, and more than outshines GoDD on fights where you have to move a lot. So "I" would be telling "you" (I don't know where the "we" in regards to optimization came from), that not using the glyph is a dps loss in any fight with more than one mob (Kologarn, General Hard Mode, Yogg), fights where you have to move a lot (Council, HM Freya, Mimiron), and will be nearly the same on fights such as Razor, XT, and Ignis.
You've managed to click a button on a sim and then get this grandiose feeling that you now know everything about a DK. I'm glad you think what you do about your stats, and that not even having a 3rd glyph would be better than having GoD, but in my opinion you're flat out wrong, and you haven't really said anything other than a retort to my post that doesn't make a damn bit of sense. I think I'll stray from this thread now, because obviously the people that post on it don't even take the time to read the original post or the stickies on this forum, where it even says that GoD should overtake GoDD.
I really don't mind having someone disagree with me, but you're just spewing random numbers and quick facts that don't make a bit of sense.
Edit: P.S., anything with a value over "1" will be higher in comparison to attack power because it is the base as to which everything else is compared.
I have those numbers for quite some time now and i didnt see a lot of sense in posting them.
But i really dont like the idea that strength will be always best. There will be a point, where strength will be a lot worse than haste. Its very simple, but i dont want to give an example. I dont think, this will even be in WOTLK, its more a theoretical.
And how you use those numbers, well, thats your choice. The only thing i wanted to say is, that you should gem for expertise cap, its not only giving a smoother rotation, its simply giving you more DPS in most (!) of the situations. When you are out of melee rage and use DC a lot or there are a lot of mobs and you deal aoe (diseases, death and decay, bloodboil), than expertise is simply is nearly worthless.
PS: Before i forget: Those numbers were supposed to be a help for people that want to optimze their colosseum ilvl245 gear(as this is important for me). If you are in Naxxgear than you should still get the best DPS by gemming for strength and not expertise.
08/31/09, 1:53 PM
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