It isn't intended as a hotfix, because it was created as intended. It is being edited in 3.2.2 to include Death Strike, it wasn't an oversight on the developers part to not include it in the first place.

- Heart Strike now has its total damage increased by 10% for each of your diseases on the target to the primary target, and half that to the secondary target.
I definitely hope that this doesn't mean what I understand

Seems like a slight nerf to the cleave capabilities of Heart Strike- instead of 2 diseases boosting damage by 20% on secondary target like it does the main, it will boost by 10%

It's hard to tell - it could mean that they increased the effect of diseases by 10% each for:

10% (original)+ 10% = 20% per disease and then half that for the second target (original 10%), but I think that would be too nice. For some reason, out of all the specs it sounds like they're nerfing the weakest specs multi target dps somewhat. We'll have to wait and see, or get clarification.

Now I am new to replying to threads on this forum, as I dont feel my knowledge is up to par in making a significant case/point. That being said, one descrepency that I have noticed with regard to this topic is the heart strike ability itself.

The current wording of Heart Strike...as stated in the official talent calculator is:

Instantly strike the target and his nearest ally, causing 50% weapon damage plus 125, total damage increased by 10% for each of your diseases on the target.

Now, the new MMO talent calc for the patch reads:

Instantly strike the target and his nearest ally, causing 50% weapon damage plus 368, total damage increased by 10% for each of your diseases on the target to the primary target, and half that to the secondary target.

Now based upon the wording of these two, it would seem as though HS is getting a buff to single target and a slight nerf to its cleave. If this passes as worded....I would like to see how the increased dmg plays out in off setting the nerf to our cleave. Either way....I welcome the dmg increase to our single target.

Using WMO to try to gauge results of similar builds is terribly bad right after the release of new content. The top people have 245 weapons, which would put them #1 without any glyphs. Additionally Dark Death is a much easier glyph to manage than disease, which means some people will pass over it simply b/c it's one extra thing to concentrate on. More importantly, the 4 pc T9 set bonus is currently bugged, and once that is fixed GoDisease should become significantly more popular.

The two glyphs now have simmed out relatively close to each other, but with a fixed 4pc bonus, the difference should be significant enough to warrant the extra effort.
Any fights under something like 40 seconds will strictly be a dps loss using GoDisease over GoDD. In general the fight has to last at least a minute to notice any gain, and then of course you have to be using the glyph properly. I have started toying with making sure I am over 50 RP to start a fight and opening with DS-HS-HS in which I typically get a proc of everything up, then using DRW-IT-PS. Since you have to IT-PS seperately with DRW, this allows you to "roll" your diseases the longest.

I'm on the PTR:
- HS cleave is not simply halved. It as complicated as it sounds.
- HS is 50% + 368 + 10%. Wasn't it always like that? I'm a little bit confused right now .
- VB+UA also down to 1 min.

Pristine Chaos is correct here. The simulator doesnt take the army into account for as far as i know and most fights last roughly 4 - 8 min. Without trash, NotD become quite significantly better in totc then it was in Ulduar. Basically doubling the uptime of your army over an entire raid, most of the time being available after a bosskill, or a wipe. Also dont underestimate the CD reduction on the ghoul.

Napkin-mathing 2 points Necrosis vs NotD (using this Jaraxxus kill log Jaraxxus kill, with 2/2 NotD specced)
- 3/5 Necrosis did 49k. 2 points necrosis = 32.6k dmg

- Army ghouls did 63k. doubling army usage makes NotD worth about 31.5k there
Ghoul did 34k dmg. NotD increases ghoul uptime by about 60% (assuming it lives, which is more likely with NotD), this makes NotD worth another 13k

Overall for 2 points necrosis: 32.6k
Overall for 2/2 NotD: 44.5k

NotD wins by a very small margin. Ofcourse, if the fight lasts a lot longer (beasts), or the ghoul / army cant be used, necrosis is the clear winner. Also when there is more then 20 minutes in between boss battles, the gain from NotD goes down significantly. Its personal preference really. This would overall probably make 2 points in necrosis win, since the difference for this particular fight would be 40ish dps in the end.


On live, HS = 72% wep dmg + 261 + 10% per disease. Quite a big nerf incoming for high geared ppl.
The tanking talents being reset to 1 min CD is a warm welcome. Also an extra 3% dmg redux from frost presence is never bad.


On another note: Is 4PT9 still bugged on the PTR? I had some tries with it on live but amunable to get any crits from the Disease ticks.

I was wondering if it is better to stagger BL and potion of speed or use the speed pot during BL

i would like to test it myself but can get a shammy to sit by me while i punch of dummy

Actually, looking at the current Heart Strike (Heart Strike - Spell - World of Warcraft) it appears that the only change is the adjustment to the cleave portion, which I wouldn't personally consider a "big deal" in PVE terms, and does indeed sound, as mentioned upthread, like a PVP-oriented change.

I do, however, concur on the remainder of your quote. I like the 1m CD/3% changes.

Why don't you take the points for NotD out of Morbidity. Necrosis is better point for point than Morbidity.

After testing it on the PTR, my diseases are indeed critting as they should, so it is fixed.

My diseases are critting on live, but the %chance seems to <2%... whats the intended crit chance meant to be?

I believe Bloddy Strikes is reflected in % weapon damage shown on the tool tip.

Indeed. Bloody Strikes, etc, are all reflected in the tooltip.

Thanks for clearing all this up. I could have known Bloody strikes etc caused the tooltip to change as well.

As Atheist god suggests, Morbidity is a pretty meager talent, constituting for about 29k on the jaraxxus kill (to give some reference to my previous post). It gets even worse when we swap out SotVH for SoV. Im wondering why most ppl still have it though.

I'm quite confused from the wording, and from what I take (i've honestly never seen Blizzard use these exact words "half that" in one of their talents before) only the damage multipliers are reduced for the cleave part, and not the whole damage like DRW - thus instead of 20% more damage for 2 diseases up, it'll be 10%.

I'm really not sure on that though, and I guess we have to wait and see for the clarification.

Well i fear, it will be really the only half the damage on the second target.

There's currently NO CHANGE(!) implemented on PTR, just the tooltip has changed. It isnt the first time that happens, last time they eg halved the duration for DRW on the tooltip and one or two builds later, it worked exactly the way the tooltip says.

FYI, the "plus 125" is rank 1 of HS. Rank 6 is still 368, as per live. There is no damage increase single target, and it indeed appears to be a slight nerf to the damage bonus per disease on the secondary target.

What is "as they should"? What percentage crit rate are you getting?

The tests-to-date show diseases critting at a rate of approx 1% - we can only assume such a tiny amount means it is bugged, and your test indicates it is still bugged.

Did you actually test it properly though?

Heres how you do it -

1) Get FF and BP on primary target
2) Pestilence
3) Heart Strike
4) Compare Heart Strike Damage from Primary Target and Secondary Target

You should find that this happens -
If heart strike hit primary target for 2,400, then it should hit the secondary target for approx 2,200


This is assuming a base heart strike hit for 2,000, meaning -
Primary Target = (2,000 + 20%) = 2,400
and
Secondary Target = (2,000 + 10%) = 2,200

Go and test it like this and report findings, i would do it myself but not on PTR this time.

nb - above is napkin math and doesn't account for any weapon dmg modifiers (if any) for the cleave part of the attack compared to main part of the attack, but it's good enough for testing purposes.

Do you even need to pestillence? I thought that diseases only needed to be on the primary target in order to give the bonus disease samage to both primary and secondary targets?

Anyway, in terms of testing this, I'd also suggest trying to do it on a pull of two differently named mobs, so you can more easily distinguish which HS hit which mob.

I look forward to the results!

I tested HS roughly. Same damage on both targets with no Diseases up, slightly less on the second with diseases on the main target.