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Old 05/31/09, 7:39 PM   #31
Joshyboy
Glass Joe
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Aggramar (EU)
My mistake, missed the patch notes
Thanks for that

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Old 06/01/09, 3:04 AM   #32
Kankersore
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Dark Iron
Trinket Question: I currently use Greatness Deck and Mjolnir Runestone as my trinkets. I also have a Grim Toll. Would it be worth it to replace the Greatness Deck with Grim Toll to have 2 ArP proc trinkets?

My theory is that as long as they don't both proc at the same time its 20 seconds of 100% ArP with short downtime between the 2 internal cooldowns. I just don't know if it over powers the pure STR on the Greatness deck to run Grim in its place. Your thoughts and ideas gentlemen?

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Old 06/01/09, 9:31 AM   #33
Soilantgreen64
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Dethecus
Originally Posted by Kankersore View Post
Trinket Question: I currently use Greatness Deck and Mjolnir Runestone as my trinkets. I also have a Grim Toll. Would it be worth it to replace the Greatness Deck with Grim Toll to have 2 ArP proc trinkets?

My theory is that as long as they don't both proc at the same time its 20 seconds of 100% ArP with short downtime between the 2 internal cooldowns. I just don't know if it over powers the pure STR on the Greatness deck to run Grim in its place. Your thoughts and ideas gentlemen?
I wouldn't replace the Greatness with Grim toll, heads up the Greatness is a better trinket, and that's before you even take into consideration that double trinket procs would push you over the 100% ArP cap.

Plus your DPS spikes when Greatness and Runestone overlap will be awesome. As opposed to Runestone and Grim Toll overlapping which would just be sad.

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Old 06/01/09, 11:52 AM   #34
raledon
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Vashj (EU)
Originally Posted by Leaflock View Post
This is incorrect and shouldn't be repeated any more-- not sure where it's coming from.

The bulk of DRW's damage is from its regular melee swings-- a DRW white attack will hit twice as hard as a DRW Heart Strike. That's why it's important to stack DRW with any available haste-- Bloodlust/Heroism, Potion of Speed, etc. Similarly, Hysteria benefits DRW tremendously.

As Soilantgreen is pointing out, DRW is all about packing as many hard hitting attacks as possible into your 15 second window. While your DRW will put up full duration diseases and I believe its Heart Strikes will benefit from its own diseases (the issue pre-3.1 was that DRW's OB would remove DRW's diseases, even if you had Annihilation), the total damage of DRW's dots is pretty pitiful. I've tried both methods pretty extensively in raids, and maximizing HS + DS + DC during DRW seems to have the best results, particularly if you use Empower Rune Weapon to avoid wasting any GCDs while DRW is up.
Well, as far I understood the DRW mechanic, it goes like this:
Once used, DRW will take a "snapshot" of your stats, and mimic you. For instance, if you had 6000 ap when you cast it and cast a heart strike later with 5000 ap, the DRW will cast a heart strike with power of 6000 ap. The damage that the said heart strike will cause will be half of what your heart strike will do with 6000 ap.
According to what you say (correct me if I'm wrong), the DRW heart strike will cause over 50% of your damage, while it's dots will cause less than 50%. This is probably incorrect, and I ignored any damage bonus that the DRW might recieve from dots being up, since I'm not entirely sure if it actually recieves them.
Regarding the dots being pitiful, please note that blood diseases ARE pitiful. On the other hand, a full run disease is not so pitiful, since it does 7 times it's ticks damage.

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Old 06/01/09, 12:12 PM   #35
Syrvantez
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Laughing Skull
The other major component regarding DRW is the fact that it functions off the same disease mechanics that you as the DK do. That is the primary reason for putting up the diseases first, that and it's free dps even after your DRW duration expires, the dots will still tick to their full duration. If you want to test this try it on a target dummy and review your combat log.

Just for curiosity's sake, does anyone have 4 pc yet and do we know if the 4 pc will affect DRW? I know our 4 pc, like many others, is total crap but it's better than nothing.

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Old 06/01/09, 12:31 PM   #36
Crewell
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Moonrunner
Originally Posted by hai2u2 View Post
Death Strike damage scales with [Glyph of Death Strike]. Beginning a rotation with this is a dps loss due to the fact you have no runic power.
Starting your first rotation with Death Strike is no different than what we go through every second set of runes when we cast DS - HS - HS - HS - HS - dump. That Death Strike is after a dump and hence we have little runic power at the time to gain the full benefit from the Glyph of Death Strike. Having your opening rotation start with Death Strike won't be a major DPS impact in a boss fight where as getting that 10% AP bonus out to the rest of the raid could be. After all if you wait on your Death Strike until the end of your first rune set you lost out on 6 seconds (four global cooldowns) of the AP boost. The impact of this obviously varies based on raid composition. There really isn't a finite value to how much damage that 10% AP boost equates to over the 6 seconds in comparison to if you stuck with a normal rotation to open with.

Now if you have someone else in the raid providing that boost (ie. a Marksman Hunter), then stay with the normal rotations.

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Old 06/01/09, 2:12 PM   #37
crazy dodo
Von Kaiser
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Khaz Modan
Couple of questions (i'm new to blood so this is just in response to what i've read here so far)

First off, as far as rotations and DS concerns, i saw 2 rotations being discussed but what about a compromise between the 2
1. IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-DUMP (diseases 1st, Abom last)
2. DS-IT-PS-HS-HS-DUMP (Abom Might 1st, diseases 2nd)
3. IT-PS-DS-HS-HS-DUMP (compromise, diseases 1st, abom 2nd)
you still get your diseases 1st, have 20RP or so which gives you 20%+ to DS which is just 5% short of the max increase by the Glyph. Also you can still start the fight early with a ranged IT instead of waiting to get to your target before attacking. In fact this means that your DS is delayed by only 1 second (GCD after PS) which i'm sure is acceptable

My other question is about DRW
Tooltip mentions the +1sec for every 10 RP, how is this calculated exactly. Does this mean that in order to maximize duration you have to use DRW when you have 100 RP (which basicaly means after 2 full rotations for the 4 death runes as well)? or can you just start it with 40RP and keep it up with newly generated RP?

I'm also a bit confused about the role Empowered Rune Weapon plays in DRW. Are we talking about burning it before DRW, or having it ready for DRW in order to maximize attacks during that period (which makes more sense to me)

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Old 06/01/09, 2:27 PM   #38
Soilantgreen64
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Orc Death Knight
 
Dethecus
Originally Posted by crazy dodo View Post
My other question is about DRW
Tooltip mentions the +1sec for every 10 RP, how is this calculated exactly. Does this mean that in order to maximize duration you have to use DRW when you have 100 RP (which basicaly means after 2 full rotations for the 4 death runes as well)? or can you just start it with 40RP and keep it up with newly generated RP?

I'm also a bit confused about the role Empowered Rune Weapon plays in DRW. Are we talking about burning it before DRW, or having it ready for DRW in order to maximize attacks during that period (which makes more sense to me)
The duration of DRW is only affected by the RP you have when it is spawned, it does not work like gargoyle. Your RP is spent when it is cast, and that determines how long it lasts

You would burn ERW after you cast DRW and have used all your available runes, so you are always striking with DRW up, DC'ing as a last resort.

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Old 06/01/09, 2:35 PM   #39
Montegomery
Aloof Aggravator
 
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Sutiru
Undead Warrior
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by crazy dodo View Post
First off, as far as rotations and DS concerns, i saw 2 rotations being discussed but what about a compromise between the 2
1. IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-DUMP (diseases 1st, Abom last)
2. DS-IT-PS-HS-HS-DUMP (Abom Might 1st, diseases 2nd)
3. IT-PS-DS-HS-HS-DUMP (compromise, diseases 1st, abom 2nd)
you still get your diseases 1st, have 20RP or so which gives you 20%+ to DS which is just 5% short of the max increase by the Glyph. Also you can still start the fight early with a ranged IT instead of waiting to get to your target before attacking. In fact this means that your DS is delayed by only 1 second (GCD after PS) which i'm sure is acceptable
You can easily go into combat with 10 or so RP handy thanks to DnD, HoW, and Butchery (If you have 3/3 Morbidity, you can actually cap RP before a pull by casting DND and HoW on CD). You don't necessarily lose a full 26% damage from that first DS. So the gains from your compromise are either minimal or non-existent, and the losses are 1.5-3 seconds of buff time. Note that the buff also increases your disease damage.

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Old 06/01/09, 3:04 PM   #40
Drakanis
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by kelben View Post
oh and that 44 / 0 / 27 spec is horrid.
What is horrid about the spec? The 44/0/27 is a solid spec. Although, I would move the points around a bit to look like this...

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This spec is capable of some very solid damage. One thing it had going to it prior to the T7 nerf was an additional Death Coil in your rotation. However, I would still imagine it to be a very viable spec even after the nerf.

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Old 06/01/09, 3:35 PM   #41
crazy dodo
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Pandaren Monk
 
Khaz Modan
thanks Soilantgreen64 for clarifying DRW functionality.

and yes i momentarily forgot that the GCD is 1.5 secs which brings me to my next question - Haste

i've read quite a few threads here but have yet to get a definitive understanding of Haste on Death Knights
Does Haste Rating improve the cooldown of Runes (I have noticed that Heroism definitely speeds up said cooldowns)
or does it simply increase the number of white hits per minute?

Also although all runes are supposed to take 10secs to cooldown i've noticed that blood runes replenish quicker. Anyone know the exact timing?

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Old 06/01/09, 4:15 PM   #42
Canadianloaf
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Zul'Jin
Also you can still start the fight early with a ranged IT instead of waiting to get to your target before attacking.
If disease damage is set only once when IT is cast, then this will be 10% loss on your frost fever for the duration of the first rotation. However if the dmg is determined from AP at the time of each tick, then the choice of starting with DS or ranged IT is pretty much personal preference. Has anyone tested this or know the mechanics?

For maxing AP buff, DS should take priority over PS on opening, however, since both are melee range.

It may also be useful to note that opening with a ranged IT before getting to melee range means the haste debuff from frost fever will be on the boss earlier at a time when you will not be able to use DS anyhow.

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Old 06/01/09, 7:07 PM   #43
kelben
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Drakanis View Post
What is horrid about the spec? The 44/0/27 is a solid spec. Although, I would move the points around a bit to look like this...

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This spec is capable of some very solid damage. One thing it had going to it prior to the T7 nerf was an additional Death Coil in your rotation. However, I would still imagine it to be a very viable spec even after the nerf.
The key point of picking up this build is to grab impurity and perma ghoul. Your revision skips impurity which kills the dps of this build even further. In additon putting the extra point into epidemic is unneeded. I also simmed the build and compared it to the typical blood build, ~1000 dps difference. The lost of 10% dmg and 10% apr is brutual.

Haste is the devil...

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Old 06/01/09, 8:48 PM   #44
Drakanis
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by kelben View Post
The key point of picking up this build is to grab impurity and perma ghoul. Your revision skips impurity which kills the dps of this build even further. In additon putting the extra point into epidemic is unneeded. I also simmed the build and compared it to the typical blood build, ~1000 dps difference. The lost of 10% dmg and 10% apr is brutual.

Impurity is a weak talent for that spec at 5 points. You get more value in putting the points into Dirge and Necrosis. The left over point goes into Epidemic for the extra disease DoT. The additional RP given by Dirge allows you to get more DC's in during the course of a fight...which outweighs the points in Impurity. While I understand that the loss of 10% damage bonus and 10% ArPen is a lot, you still pick up a lot of damage with those extra points in Unholy. I appreciate the value of the simulator, but there is absolutely no way there is a 1000 dps difference between the two specs.

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Old 06/01/09, 9:13 PM   #45
richard
Piston Honda
 
Human Death Knight
 
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by crazy dodo View Post
i've read quite a few threads here but have yet to get a definitive understanding of Haste on Death Knights
Does Haste Rating improve the cooldown of Runes (I have noticed that Heroism definitely speeds up said cooldowns)
or does it simply increase the number of white hits per minute?

Also although all runes are supposed to take 10secs to cooldown i've noticed that blood runes replenish quicker. Anyone know the exact timing?
Read this: Death Knight: PvE DPS

Haste does nothing for rune cooldowns, only IUP does. Haste will make you swing faster, and shorten the GCD on spells, such as IT and DC, but not for melee strikes like HS or DS.

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