Grigori

Looking at Ghostcrawler's explanation for the nerf, it appears that they don't as much take issue with characters doing massive multi-target DPS as they do with characters doing massive multi-target DPS without sacrificing single-target DPS on the primary target. Warriors are fine because only Whirlwind cleaves in their single-target rotation and that by itself does not do massive multi-target DPS. In order to do massive multi-target DPS, the Warrior has to sacrifice single-target DPS on the primary target by using Cleave. You can see this design philosophy at work with the PTR multi-target Seal of Command. They don't as much have a problem with massive cleave DPS as they do with massive cleave DPS on your single-target rotation.

That said, I think Blizzard may have lost sight somewhat of why they made Heart Strike hit two targets in the first place: To address a glaring weakness in Blood's multi-target DPS. Personally, I think this HS change causes more problems than it solves. There are any number of better ways to bring about their multi-target philosophy. As an example, they can remove the multi-target component of Heart Strike completely and add "Your Blood Strike now has a 33%/66%/100% chance to strike its target and its two nearest allies" to Might of Mograine. That would make both Blood's 2-target and mass-target AE DPS more reasonable (instead of the multi-target DPS cliff where you go from mind-bogglingly awesome at 2 to pwned-by-the-nerfed-to-the-ground-FoK at 4).

 

Kaejin

That seems like a rather good solution, actually. Heart Strike's cleave has always been more annoying than anything when CC comes into play, and on Faction Champions it's nearly useless. I would think giving HS an alternate function and making Blood Strike into a cleave for the Blood Tree using the current damage it does would solve many problems as once. If they want to keep things from feeling lame, I'd think making it so hitting Blood Strike doesn't feel like being punished is an important thing as well, in addition to letting us keep our full single target DPS against single targets in CC sensitive situations.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

 

Veritas17

Forgive me if this is wrong to ask, but the argument about armor pen and gemming - is it finalized then? Should you actually gem for armor pen if you're sorely lacking in it? I personally have around 7500 or more ap when raid buffed so I figured I could actually test out gemming up to 700ish armor pen (I'm sitting at 600 ungemmed right now with my armor pen set on). I currently lack an armor pen trinket so that's why I'm even asking this.

I'm not sure if there has ever been a decent percentage you should aim for with regards armor pen now since the whole 6200 ap raid buffed thing got shot out the window eons ago.

 

gogolack

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

From 25m Heroic Jaraxxus. Obviously its just one example, but its still relevant. Blood DK's dominate this fight.

The change is reasonable. The fights where its really noticible tend to be fights we dominate anyway. Overall this won't change the damage rankings for very many fights.

 

Grigori

I don't know about that. You top that parse at 7.5k, but looking at the many WMO Lord Jaraxxus 25 hard mode parses, I think it's a very long stretch to say that Blood DKs dominate this fight. Browsing through the first twenty or so parses on the page, I see Blood DK topping the chart once, and that one is with all his teammates doing very poorly compared to good parses for their classes. I mean, Warriors and Rogues are topping 9k on this fight, and the top Fire Mages are clearly averaging higher than the top Blood DKs here. You will be hard-pressed even to make a case for Blood DK being #1 for this fight, let alone dominatingly so (heck, you will be hard-pressed to make a case for Blood DK being #4 for this fight...forget about the high DPS pures, I saw more Ret Pallies topping 7k while browsing through the parses than I did Blood DKs).

 

gogolack

I admit I definitely should've done a bit more research on other classes' parsings! Point well made, perhaps the change is a bit unnecessary, I still don't see it as overly significant.

 

Khaosknight

Since it does not effect Heart Strike damage, and even with the glyph Blood Strike will still not out damage heart strike, I sincerely doubt it.

 

Algroth

Also keep in mind that the dps is very RNG depending on how the special abilities line up with your current color. Having the extra 1-4k damage on average just from the cleave is still a fairly substantial, and the chance to proc 2 death coils on each swing is also a good bonus. My guild killed Heroic Twins last night using the "tank them in the middle" strat. Here is my parse for reference: WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

 

rosedeath

Hello everyone, if this question has been answered somewhere else please tell me.
when talking about being "raid buffed" is it referring to the buff other class can give such as kings and might or buff that proc in a fight suck as FC and abomination's might?
I ask because the when in a fight with abomination and FC proc i gain up too 1k AP if not more bring me close to 7k AP when im 5.7k AP when not in a fight

 

Drenhar

Yes, 'raid buffed' is referring to the buffs you recieve from the others in your raid.

 

fainflinn

How's everyone feel about gemming for Arp over Str if using both deaths choice and greatness card ?
i know everything points to gemming for STR but i tried gemming full arp now that i have both these trinks and i hardly notice the difference
I feel like i doing something wrong not gemming full str but i dont maybe its just me but i cant see a huge change in dps going full arp

 

fainflinn

So I assume having 90% ArP dont matter as much anymore?
without the trinket proc or gemming hard for it I assume STR beats out ArP then ?

 

Invisus

Considering the stat weights on the front of the page marking ArP as lower than Str on top of the fact that the lower of the two is about to take a 20% hit, then logic dictates that it does. You're not going to be able to gem a significant enough amount to impact your DPS as much as gemming Strength will after the patch. End of story.

 

Bonecaller

In Highendgear (probably Icecrown), STR and Arm.Pen. will have about the same value so i would gem for strength until then, especially when you have a frost/unholy dualspecc. You also have to consider that in aoe situations, armor penetration only affects HS, not DND, diseases and so on. Having a lot of IC gear might change it for singletarget dps.

Those stat weights on the front page are simply outdated. In my simulations for ilvl245 gear after the arm. pen. nerf, i get quite some other results:

EP:50 | AttackPower | 1
EP:50 | Strength | 2,85
EP:50 | Agility | 1,34
EP:50 | CritRating | 2,26
EP:50 | HasteRating | 1,9
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 2,69
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 3,84
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 5,15

It's fair to assume that armor penetration would be best for blood until patch, but i hope it won't take too long anyway.

 

Algroth

Could you post the parameters you used in your simulation? The main reason why I ask is that even though ArP is taking a nerf, it still scales effectively quadratically (its a more complicated function but I remember seeing a quadratic fit of it with R^2 > .9). So still the more armor pen you have the more each point is worth up to the cap, which makes posting a constant number for the AP conversion slightly misleading.

 

Bonecaller

Well i have been choosing the vlaues you should have in ilvl245 gear (it isn't the exact value, but pretty close to it, depending on the set you choose):

<stat>
<Strength>2063</Strength>
<Agility>324</Agility>
<Intel>58</Intel>
<Armor>13973</Armor>
<AttackPower>1257</AttackPower>
<HitRating>268</HitRating>
<CritRating>775</CritRating>
<HasteRating>105</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>472</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>177</ExpertiseRating>
</stat>
<weapon>
<count>1</count>
<mainhand>
<dps>255.7</dps>
<speed>3.6</speed>
</mainhand>
<T92PDPS>1</T92PDPS>
<T94PDPS>1</T94PDPS>

I believe those are pretty realistic numbers. I could run a EP simulation for ilvl258 gear and full armor penetration gemming, but i don't believe it would change too much.

 

Bonecaller

And with ilvl258 loot + armor penetration gemming:

EP:50 | AttackPower | 1
EP:50 | Strength | 2,89
EP:50 | Agility | 1,38
EP:50 | CritRating | 2,25
EP:50 | HasteRating | 1,94
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 3,02
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 3,75
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 4,98
EP: | 2T9 | 146,77
EP: | 4T9 | 446,77


Basis:
<stat>
<Strength>1923</Strength>
<Agility>280</Agility>
<Intel>58</Intel>
<Armor>13973</Armor>
<AttackPower>1257</AttackPower>
<HitRating>268</HitRating>
<CritRating>775</CritRating>
<HasteRating>105</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>772</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>177</ExpertiseRating>
</stat>
<weapon>
<count>1</count>
<mainhand>
<dps>281.7</dps>
<speed>3.6</speed>


So armor penetration may already overtake with BIS T9 gear (again). My simulation time was 3000 hours so the results should be pretty good.

 

zedmekis

Hi (and sorry for my poor english but i'm canadian)

I have a little problem with my castsequence,

I want to put this :
/cast [target=Player] Hysteria
/targetlasttarget

in that :

/castsequence reset=combat/target PS, IT, DS, HS, HS, [HYSTERIA HERE] , DRW, DS, HS, HS HS, Blood tap, HS

is it possible to do that by any method ?

exemple write something like : .. HS, tar [player], cast hysteria, tar lasttarget , DRW..

or

by sending this cast sequence to a castbar button ?

thanks in advance

oh and sorry if I'm not at the right place to post that but I don't find any method :S

 

Cythen

Blood has always been single target oriented. This is very evident when tanking as blood where we dominate single target threat per second. I have no problem with blizzard keeping blood to this theme and to me it seems that they want to emphasis this role as this does cause almost a 25% cut to blood's AOE damage.

I would also like to see an alternate change to this ability such as a positive change to Sudden Doom procs for Heart Strike. Something to the effect of 15% chance for Blood Strike 30% chance for Heart Strike. This is still a decrease in power in AOE in my opinion but leans the blood tree toward an even more signle target oriented spec. If they adding something extra to Heart Strike it could justify getting rid of the cleave all together.

 

Velk

Put the player's name in the macro and then there's no reason to do so, it will just fire off hysteria on them while you remain on the current target.

e.g.
/cast [target=zedmekis] Hysteria

Or if you are really indecisive about who you want to hysteria and have to keep changing it, try making a [target=focus] one instead and focus the person you are going to H next.

 

Inbreed

most of the new i245+ gear are str oriented and with the inc. nerf to arPen, I would just go pure STR now and when patch come you be set. Price of the STR gem will go up when the patch come because of all the DK and warrior are gonna go and buy them to switch.

 

Liquify

So, according to this, hit then expertise should be gemming priority? I know it used to be str or ArP before 3.2, and I dont really want to dig through 30 pages to get an answer.