Blood Simple - The Day The Music Died - Page 30

Algroth · 07/22/09, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by mahal

Has anyone checked if hysteria increases the damage of bleed effects.

Yes it does.

As a side note: If you are going to be putting hysteria on a feral, the best way to optimize their use is to try and coordinate it so you apply it right before they apply a Rip and when their Berserk is coming off cooldown (same CD as hysteria), this way they get the +20% damage buff when their skills cost half energy and the +20% damage to two Rips rather than one. (This is more efficient than trying to coordinate it with trinket procs.)

Velk · 07/22/09, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by kenjin-dk

I'll give it a try, but it could lead to a point, were other DKs were prefered in Raids^^

'Should I use hysteria on other melee' is a very different question to 'If I am poorly geared, should I use hysteria on other melee that blow me away in damage'. The answer to the second one is always yes.

The advice from the first question assumes that the other melee are doing roughly similar damage to you.

mahal · 07/23/09, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Soilantgreen64

All the evidence I've seen still points to casting diseases before DRW.

Originally Posted by mahal

Please back up your statements with objective data.

All of the evidence I have personally gathered suggests otherwise. I have analyzed multiple Ulduar and Naxx parses and the result is the same every time. IT and PS both do more damage per GCD than a DISEASED HS. Additionally, they add 20% more damage per HS. With my suggested DRW use (1IT, 1PS, 1DS, 6HS) that would add damage equivalent to 1.2 heart strikes.

If you could link some of your personal WWS reports to contradict this I would be very interested to see them. Perhaps as you said my ArP to AP ratio is off. I'm also curious to see other people's DRW miss rate. From what I have read, DRW is unaffected by the owner's +hit and expertise. Is mine actually much lower than everyone else?

♦ Darkside · 07/23/09, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by mahal

All of the evidence I have personally gathered suggests otherwise. I have analyzed multiple Ulduar and Naxx parses and the result is the same every time. IT and PS both do more damage per GCD than a DISEASED HS. Additionally, they add 20% more damage per HS. With my suggested DRW use (1IT, 1PS, 1DS, 6HS) that would add damage equivalent to 1.2 heart strikes.

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t61176-b...e/#post1259405

mahal · 07/23/09, 2:29 PM

The post you linked does not consider disease damage or the fact that PS is physical damage.

Option A - Disease before DRW: 6xHS, 2xDS

Option B - Disease after DRW: IT, PS, 6xHS, 1xDS, FFx6, BPx6 (diseases tick 5, 6 or 7 times depending on epidemic)

Net difference of A vs B: 1 DS vs IT, PS, FFx6, BPx6, HSx1.2

Here is a Freya Parse. Wow Web Stats

Breaking down the data from this we get the following damage chart:

Attack	Average Damage
IT	468
FF	202x6 = 1212
PS	654
BP	213x6=1278
DS	1113
HS	940x.63+2296x.38 = 1465
IT+FF	468 + 1212 = 1680
PS+BP	654 + 1278 = 1932

A) (1465)x6 + (1113)x2 = 11,016 total damage
B) 468 + 654 + (1465x1.2)x6 + 1113 + (202)x6 + (213)x6 = 15,273

Now lets consider Hysteria. add an extra 20% to all physical attacks:
A) (1465x1.2)x6 + (1113x1.2)x2 = 13,219
B) 468 + 654x1.2 + (1465x1.4)x6 + 1113x1.2 + 1212 + 1278 = 17,384

I see only benefit from using diseases during DRW, assuming you DS immediately before activating the clone.

Soilantgreen64 · 07/23/09, 4:15 PM

I'll end with this. I think plugging numbers from a parse is a bad way to try to do this analysis. I can find parses from my own experience that support both sides of this argument. In general I think what you are seeing is amplified by your particular gear set. Lacking a GT/MR means you're never hitting the 100% ArP cap, and ArP becomes more effective the more of it you have. This is going to prejudice your results in favor of the attacks not affected by ArP, and similarly for someone who is ArP capped with procs, their results will be more skewed towards eliminating the attacks not affected by ArP.

Some of your numbers compared extremely strangely to mine, where I see DS's averaging 2k and HS's averaging 1.5k, yet disease ticks being lower. We can post logs back and forth all day long, but eliminating the outside factors is close to impossible (are the debuffs on the target identical - do you have an arms warrior, etc.). Add to that the fact that we're at the end of a raid cycle with significant changes coming soon, discussing this further is quite honestly pointless.

Jahdo · 07/24/09, 11:00 AM

Drenhar · 07/24/09, 10:21 PM

From MMO-champion:

* Blood Strike now has its total damage icnreased by 12.5% for each of your diseases on the target. (Down from 25%)

Newest info from PTR build just now posted. Back to where the ability started. Looks like they didn't like the BS-heavy rotations that were going around.

taehanpak · 07/26/09, 1:53 PM

That wouldn't be affiliated to Blood Dks usually.

AtheistGod · 07/26/09, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by taehanpak

That wouldn't be affiliated to Blood Dks usually.

With how Heart Strike has been directly buffed/nerfed based on the blood strike changes, it is important for blood.

kiraken · 07/29/09, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by mahal

1) Ideal Rotation: DS, PS, IT, HSx4, DS, DCx2, HSx2 repeat. (12 GCD, 18 secs, +37 net runic power per cycle)

Goals: No disease down-time, DS always used with >25 runic power, HS always used with diseases up, no wasted global cooldowns.

I run with 1 point in epidemic. The rotation fits exactly into the time frame so that if done perfectly no disease down-time exists. There is user error and lag to account for, so I use a death strike before refreshing diseases because it doesn't need them to deal max damage. This gives you a 2 second window where disease uptime is less critical. For this rotation to work, you need 8 second rune refresh times. This means that the first cycle in combat will NOT work smoothly because there is a 10 sec rune refresh the first usage. There are many options to fill in the extra time: Pull out ghoul, use horn of winter, pop blood tap, use empower rune weapon, death coil etc.

I use a similar rotation but I just swap the first DS to the end and put 1 more DC into it. Whit the first rotation I avoid the 10 sec rune refresh at the beginning.

First rotation: DS, IT, PS, HSx2, DC, HoW, HSx2, DS, HSx2, DSx2
N rotations: IT, PS, HSx4, DS, DCx2, HSx2, DS, DC

dardack · 07/30/09, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Krom[Fenris]

I've never had problems spreading Pestilence on Kologarn, it's always been Heart Strike that's the problem. Did you have any luck with that?

I stand where the tank stands and HS hit's twice for me (at least according to my scrolling combat text) while hitting the right arm.

dardack · 07/30/09, 3:38 PM

I do have a couple questions. I'm currently trying the 44/0/27 experimental build and find my ghoul does a static ~9.5% to ~10% of my dps on most if not all boss fights according to wws reports (i just select all boss fights in the menu and add up all their damage).

I ran 25 Ulduar same bosses 1 run with the 51 in blood and 1 week with the 44 in blood spec. So no this isn't conclusive, and my ability to manage the runic power properly for DRW is a fault I may have. I find my dps is ~100 dps more with the experimental. My gear did not change over the 2 weeks (i finally won a piece last night).

I'm sure there are errors in this, my question isn't directly related at which spec is better, but more towards 3.2. Because of this testing I'm debating either going 50/0/21 or staying 44/0/27 (Perhaps with the change to DRW having static 60 RP that I could also try the 51/0/20).

I believe i read that the 10% ArP from BG is ~4% increase in total physical damage, plus a 10% inc in damage if I stay above 75%, compared to a static 10% from my ghoul, along with changes to UB and Impurity, will this hybrid spec become more viable? Has anyone been able to test this on the PTR? Unfortunately, I keep having issues getting on the PTR.

I used to be good at math, but then I became an accountant which turned into a computer forensic job, that my math skills are lacking. So I apologize for not breaking out the math myself and breaking it all down. I'm still also not sure I understand how impurity works completely.

I'm going to try to get on PTR again and do some testing on a dummy myself, was just curious. I know most don't go for the hybrid spec, but I've been kinda enjoying it.

Raatar · 07/31/09, 2:08 PM

There's something I've been wondering for awhile now that I can't answer for myself as of yet because my guild isn't currently at the level of doing what needs to be done to get a full set of the gear I'm talking about;

Which would up DPS more, or be more efficient: BiS gear with Armor Pen, or 4set Bonus of tier8 for the 20% increase per disease on Heart Strike?

With all of the Armor Pen on the BiS gear, and getting a full set of that rather than four pieces of tier gear, I can imagine that it would add up to a high amount of Armor Pen, seeing as I don't have too much Ulduar gear as of now but I have over 20% Armor Pen on my character page.
But is the 20% extra damage per disease, adding up to 60% with Frost Fever and Blood Plague, rather than 20% without the set bonus more worth it for DPS?

Fauh · 07/31/09, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Raatar

There's something I've been wondering for awhile now that I can't answer for myself as of yet because my guild isn't currently at the level of doing what needs to be done to get a full set of the gear I'm talking about;

Which would up DPS more, or be more efficient: BiS gear with Armor Pen, or 4set Bonus of tier8 for the 20% increase per disease on Heart Strike?

With all of the Armor Pen on the BiS gear, and getting a full set of that rather than four pieces of tier gear, I can imagine that it would add up to a high amount of Armor Pen, seeing as I don't have too much Ulduar gear as of now but I have over 20% Armor Pen on my character page.
But is the 20% extra damage per disease, adding up to 60% with Frost Fever and Blood Plague, rather than 20% without the set bonus more worth it for DPS?

I was under the impression that it inceased the bonus by 20% multiplicative and not addative. That would result in a 20% increase of 10% which is 12%. So in reality it gives 4% extra damage to HS instead of 40% more damage to HS. The main reason that I was under the impression that it works multiplicative is just that if it was addative it seems to be too good.

If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me and do so as soon as possible(because if it does work the other way around I should stop slacking and get the 4-piece)