Blood Simple - The Day The Music Died - Page 36

dr_AllCOM3 · 08/14/09, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by gia

Any word on the 4T9 bonus Doc?
[...]
Also, what's the verdict on having 600/700 or more arpen and going over 100% with trinkets procced? Does arpen EP go down or not?

4T9 should be good. I only did a guess, but it's at least 2-3% more damage.

You either aim for max Arp or max Arp minus trinket proc.

dEm0 · 08/15/09, 6:45 AM

So I finally went for some testing on GoDisease.
I can't bring raid tests or numbers, as I'm not a big fan of theorycrafting and most overall beacuse I couldn't get a raid spot last night... but I wanted to bring back to the conversation a couple of topics:

A) GoDisease vs GoDD

Originally Posted by Soilantgreen64

[Glyph of Disease] has been fixed in 3.2, and now properly refreshes all your diseases. The increase in damage done by diseases in 3.2 makes keeping them up more of a priority, and this should put [Glyph of Disease] ahead of [Glyph of Dark Death] in your prioritization.

Originally Posted by Soilantgreen64

I'm working through some more updates of the OP, and added the section on Rolling Diseases. [...] As far as the Glyph of Disease vs Glyph of Dark Death is concerned, the actual change in your DC dmg comes out with Dark Death about 5% ahead. This is due to the fact that (previously stated in this thread) that more HS gives more Sudden Doom procs. So you need the benefit from HS over IT+PS to overcome that gap, which it should fairly easily.

Considering both quotes I don't understand clearly which glyph should be better right now. At this moment I feel like the OP can lead to some missunderstanding on that subject , am I wrong?
There are comments that proved GoDD is still better overall (or that's what I understood). Although, Atheistgod's post sumarizes very well the possible situations where GoDisease could be superior to GoDD.

B) 50/0/21 build and glyphs

As I felt very comfortable playing with GoDisease, considering the 3.2 UB changes, and knowing I might sound a bit silly... I felt curious about that setup. There's got to be something... I've seen a couple of people having also that curiosity.
Do we have any more feedback on the UB build (50/0/21 GoDisease) or (50/0/21 GoUB) as being viable?, or it will be waay behind the 'typical' (51/0/20) ? I was thinking of using [Sigil of the Vengeful Heart] for any scenario.

I believe the 'typical' spec and glyphs will win the maths, but I'd love to know if any1 has tried/parsed some of the alternatives.

Fugazor · 08/15/09, 8:45 AM

I see numbers are pretty close I just don't buy that high hit value. Thankfully it doesn't matter much as everyone always cap melee hit anyway.

I agree that 4xT9 adds 2-3% dps on single target - not even mention more targets. I will definitely go for 4xT9 even as Blood not only because it is as good or even better than randoms but also it is amazing for Unholy in case something changes or raid will need EP.

Crewell · 08/15/09, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Fugazor

I see numbers are pretty close I just don't buy that high hit value. Thankfully it doesn't matter much as everyone always cap melee hit anyway.

The hit rating value is so high because until capped it is the most valuable stat to get.

testament0221 · 08/15/09, 3:44 PM

Okay, quick question about sigils and Blood. From my understanding Vengeful Heart provides more dps than Awareness, but I'm wondering if that's true at all gear levels for blood? I'm decently geared right now, but nothing to write home about. So I wanna make sure that Vengeful Heart would be a good investment given my gear level.

I know I'm supposed to use the Sim, but honestly I'm not 100% comfortable using it yet, so I'm not placing a ton of weight on the results I get, because I could easily be making a stupid mistake in the config that would skew my results.

Thanks.

-edit: Another reason I'm asking is because my recount breakdown always has DC at around 15% of my damage, while DS is around 20%. So it didn't make sense to me that I would swap out a sigil that only buffs 15% of my damage. But you guys are the experts, so I'm not sure. Is that DC percentage typical? Should it be higher?

• vank · 08/15/09, 4:10 PM

How about trying them both out and seeing which one provides you the most DPS?

zuubtastic · 08/15/09, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by testament0221

-edit: Another reason I'm asking is because my recount breakdown always has DC at around 15% of my damage, while DS is around 20%. So it didn't make sense to me that I would swap out a sigil that only buffs 15% of my damage. But you guys are the experts, so I'm not sure. Is that DC percentage typical? Should it be higher?

I looked over some of my parses, and having 20% of your damage attributed to death strike, and the fact that it beats out your death coils makes me think you probably aren't executing your rotations correctly.

Here are three parses on Pox, XT hard mode (RNG hurt me there because I did get a couple gravity bombs), Mimiron, and Ignis:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis Ignis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis XT
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis Mimiron

At least for me, my breakdowns weren't really close to yours, but getting back to the original question.. Death Coil should be higher.. I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be unless you're getting caught somewhere at the end of your rotation with a DS where you could do diseases + HS.

testament0221 · 08/15/09, 5:49 PM

I'm doing the standard rotation listed on the OP atm. I DC dump in the middle and at the end of my rotation. Although I must admit that there are many times where, in trying to keep my rotation up, I end up spending runes when I'm at or near max RP. Maybe I can work on dumping more DC's, and not wasting as much RP. But my melee and heart strike percentages match yours pretty well, so at least I'm doing that right.

And just out of curiosity, what's the "Other" damage entry on your parses you listed?

Weidekuh · 08/16/09, 6:03 AM

Originally Posted by testament0221

-edit: Another reason I'm asking is because my recount breakdown always has DC at around 15% of my damage, while DS is around 20%. So it didn't make sense to me that I would swap out a sigil that only buffs 15% of my damage. But you guys are the experts, so I'm not sure. Is that DC percentage typical? Should it be higher?

The damage an ability does is not what you should look at. Far more important is how often you use tha ability, since it's a static bonus.

[Sigil of the Vengeful Heart] vs [Sigil of Awareness]

You use 2x DS per 20 second rotation (= +630 damage)
You have RP for 2-3 DC per 20 second + ~1 DC sudden doom proccs (= +760-1520 damage)

Now i'm not sure how the talents and other modifier affect those sigils, but i don't think it's possible that Awarenes can surpass VH in any way.

micronSD · 08/16/09, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

4T9 should be good. I only did a guess, but it's at least 2-3% more damage.

You either aim for max Arp or max Arp minus trinket proc.

Its not. The proc chance is only 15%. Item - Death Knight T9 Melee 4P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft

Assuming my numbers are correct, that puts it at about a 1.2-1.5% increase for Blood. I dont think the 4 piece will be worth getting over pieces like:

[Gauntlets of Bitter Reprisal]
[Titanium Razorplate]
[Faceplate of Thunderous Rampage]

♦ Darkside · 08/16/09, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by micronSD

Its not. The proc chance is only 15%.

Ummm...what? The proc chance is equal to your crit rate (probably your spell crit rate). This will, under any normal raid circumstance be much higher than 15%, probably around 30-35% for most people. As such, this will be a roughly 30-35% increase in disease damage done. The effectiveness of this will vary from fight to fight; on stuff like Mimiron and Freya, it will be an ENORMOUS boost, on the order of a 4-6% damage increase. On stuff like XT or Vezax, the increase will be less noticeable, around 2-3%, but still significant.

Gort · 08/16/09, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Darkside

Ummm...what? The proc chance is equal to your crit rate (probably your spell crit rate). This will, under any normal raid circumstance be much higher than 15%, probably around 30-35% for most people. As such, this will be a roughly 30-35% increase in disease damage done. The effectiveness of this will vary from fight to fight; on stuff like Mimiron and Freya, it will be an ENORMOUS boost, on the order of a 4-6% damage increase. On stuff like XT or Vezax, the increase will be less noticeable, around 2-3%, but still significant.

Well, no, I'd be inclined to agree with "15%", as from the link provided: "Apply Aura: Add % Modifier (15)"

Now, this does seem to be odd of them to do, and I'd certainly have expected spellcrit at least--just easier, I would think, even if melee crit is likely far to high to be balanced--but... Seems to look like a flat 15.

♦ Darkside · 08/16/09, 11:57 PM

No, that's the critical effect code. See also: Runic Focus - Spell - World of Warcraft

Gort · 08/17/09, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Darkside

No, that's the critical effect code. See also: Runic Focus - Spell - World of Warcraft

Comparing that to Pandemic (Warlock dot crit talent), it appears you are absolutely correct. Both have the same rough effect, same aura on both. Mea culpa. Given that, I would think 2-3% or less overall damage increase would be a good general expectation, as it's essentially a target-limited Wandering Plague and I don't recall it being one of the "over-budget" talents, so to speak.

micronSD · 08/17/09, 6:03 AM

Originally Posted by Darkside

Ummm...what? The proc chance is equal to your crit rate (probably your spell crit rate).

If you have some sort of information I dont, then by all means, post it. Otherwise, I have a hard time believing its going to be based off of our spell crit rate. That kind of damage increase on a set piece seems far too powerful compared to the set bonuses blizzard has recently aimed for.

Edit: I do hope you are right, however.