Blood Simple - The Day The Music Died - Page 41

Gearbox · 11/10/09, 2:33 PM

Now that you mention it, no, it doesn't.

[21:27:23.033] Gearbox casts Pestilence on Anub'arak
[21:27:23.151] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Gearbox
[21:27:24.244] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:27.427] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:29.430] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Gearbox
[21:27:30.233] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:33.384] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:33.980] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Gearbox
[21:27:36.207] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:39.367] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106

Good to know, I didn't think to check that. Still very odd to watch it happen mid fight and assume I need to re-apply FF.

7alisman · 11/10/09, 2:35 PM

Honestly, I have noticed this behavior as well, my original assumption was it was mistaking my FF with the reapplication of the Tank's FF and that it was getting confused. However, just last night we ran a raid, with my being the only DK, and was experiencing this behavior as well thus throwing that theory out the window.

I have also noticed that it 'only' happens for my FF, and not my BP...i'll proc to 12k AP and apply diseases, and i'll maintain that for 3-5 rotations and suddenly it just randomly decides to drop the max modified FF (out of the blue, its not in sync with when I hit pest, and I am definitely not recasting IT) and the actual damage in fact doesn't seem to drop so it appears to be a misrepresentation from the addon.

Has anyone else been experiencing this? Is it a bug? Has there been any investigation by anyone? Gearbox, seeing as you have identified a point in your log at which time its happened, could you please expand on that a bit so we can see the actual damage of FF\BP for both before, and after the "ghost refresh"?

EDIT: @ Darkside, I will go through some parses tonight when I get home from work. I apologize for use of a double negative in my original posting causing some confusion. I was on my way out to lunch and neglected to proof read the post before submitting.

♦ Darkside · 11/10/09, 2:41 PM

Sounds like its a combat log bug that's being picked up by the addon. Since it doesn't seem to be affecting DPS at all, the best move now would probably be to recode the addon to only update the "AP meter" on a successful IT or PS cast.

e: 7alisman, do you have any combat logs to support your claim of lowered damage?

Gearbox · 11/10/09, 2:43 PM

Yes. This is from the same time as my first post but with BP also. It's doing exactly like you and I both have mentioned. FF seems to "refresh" itself, either through some unknown fight mechanic, etc. BP does not. Both continue to tick for their fully AP buffed amounts.

[21:27:23.033] Gearbox casts Pestilence on Anub'arak
[21:27:23.151] Anub'arak's Blood Plague is refreshed by Gearbox
[21:27:23.151] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Gearbox
[21:27:24.244] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:25.740] Gearbox Blood Plague Anub'arak 1004 (R: 99)
[21:27:27.427] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:28.649] Gearbox Blood Plague Anub'arak 1116
[21:27:29.430] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Gearbox
[21:27:30.233] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:31.621] Gearbox Blood Plague Anub'arak 1004 (R: 99)
[21:27:33.384] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:33.980] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Gearbox
[21:27:34.710] Gearbox Blood Plague Anub'arak *2333*
[21:27:36.207] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:37.627] Gearbox Blood Plague Anub'arak 1116
[21:27:39.367] Gearbox Frost Fever Anub'arak 1106
[21:27:40.514] Gearbox casts Pestilence on Anub'arak
[21:27:40.718] Gearbox Blood Plague Anub'arak *2332*
[21:27:40.872] Anub'arak's Blood Plague is refreshed by Gearbox
[21:27:40.872] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Gearbox

As a sidenote, I don't see the addon as doing anything wrong, as all it is looking for is the log line saying that it is refreshed, and updating its status based on your current AP at the time. Just something extra for us to keep in mind.

Thix · 11/11/09, 7:53 PM

I most frequently notice Bleeding Hearts dropping my displayed Frost Fever AP level when the diseases from my DRW dissipate. I assumed it was simply something in the addon getting confused with the 2 different FF applications, but the "phantom refreshing" caught by Gearbox's combat log might also explain why recount was showing one disease getting ~10 more ticks than the other over a few minutes on the Acherus dummy even though IT and PS were cast only once and within a single GCD of each other.

Gearbox · 11/11/09, 9:24 PM

If I remember correctly, recount doesn't separate DRW, so it lumps its damage/diseases together with yours. Not sure if this is still the case, but I never see a separate breakout for DRW unless you click on your line of dmg, click the magnifying glass for your summary report, and click the pet window until you see "Rune Weapon". At that point you see an overall summary, not specific spells. I believe it will count its ticks as your own, because overall they are still 'your' dps.

Edit: This is in response to Thix, and by the way, my log has no "extra" ticks, just extra refreshes (the disease timers do not refresh as I had said, if i get a ghost refresh with 10s left on FF, it stays at 10s, my blurb above is why you are seeing 'extra' ticks as far as I can tell.

Kakon · 11/12/09, 2:41 AM

So what I am seeing mostly for blood dps is that its HS>DS>DC and use Pest glyph to keep up diseases once you feel its the best time to put them up there during the first few sec of the fight when you have numerous procs going?

Normally a rogue, first dk so was just curious from what I have been reading.

Gearbox · 11/12/09, 12:26 PM

That is the typical priority system for a Glyph of Disease spec yes. If you are some other glyphed spec, then no, you want to stick to a more rigid rotation. With GoD, do remember to get death strikes in as soon as you have a frost and unholy rune off cooldown to get them back to death runes for more heart strikes, and try and avoid using death runes for death strikes (shoot off a DC or HoW if your HS is not ready yet).

Evilbunny · 11/12/09, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Kakon

So what I am seeing mostly for blood dps is that its HS>DS>DC and use Pest glyph to keep up diseases once you feel its the best time to put them up there during the first few sec of the fight when you have numerous procs going?

Normally a rogue, first dk so was just curious from what I have been reading.

Yeah, when you get most/all of your procs up. I use power auras to tell me when my procs are up. I start DS, HS, HS then see how many procs I have up. If I'm missing more than 1 proc (FC, Sigil, T9 2pc, DMC:G, Banner) then I use Blood Tap or ERW to get the rest up before I put on diseases. With ERW I can put out DRW before diseases to I get the benefit from its diseases.

Kakon · 11/12/09, 5:29 PM

Yea atm I am finding I do more dps with a rigid rotation using GoD and the rotation show on the front of this page.

thumper242 · 11/13/09, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kakon

Yea atm I am finding I do more dps with a rigid rotation using GoD and the rotation show on the front of this page.

Is this set up in a macro?
What rigid rotation of the tons of them listed did you choose?
Are you finding you have long periods of dead time?

Fargom · 11/14/09, 12:08 AM

(Cross posting this just because of how relevant it is to blood's rotation.)

It appears that GoD no longer refreshes the buffed stack of dots on the PTR, AP at time of refresh is used instead. This was tested by Consider in the unholy thread, and I've followed up and confirmed his tests. Considering it came with the same patch as the Army of the dead change, I would assume it is intended functionality.

AtheistGod · 11/14/09, 12:07 PM

It was only a matter of time. Especially considering all of the casters with similar mechanics already had it update SP on a refresh.

Mesothorny · 11/14/09, 10:11 PM

Does anyone ever think about why Dancing Rune weapon doesn't really do 50% damage, but rather about 20-30% on most abilities? I have h/e noticed that with auto attacks and Rune Strike it does do around 50%.

Why is it that if I heart strike with Dancing rune Weapon and it crits for 9k, the DRW's following heart strike will only crit for 2-3k?

♦ Darkside · 11/14/09, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Mesothorny

Does anyone ever think about why Dancing Rune weapon doesn't really do 50% damage, but rather about 20-30% on most abilities? I have h/e noticed that with auto attacks and Rune Strike it does do around 50%.

Why is it that if I heart strike with Dancing rune Weapon and it crits for 9k, the DRW's following heart strike will only crit for 2-3k?

Probably talents. I don't think that DRW benefits from the myriad of talents that affect HS damage and therefore hits for noticeably less than you might think that it should.

Mesothorny · 11/15/09, 10:41 AM

That explains it, because we don't have any talents that increase Rune Strike or Auto attacks, which would explain why there close to 50%, except Vengeance ofcourse.

Leaflock · 11/15/09, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Gearbox

Yes. This is from the same time as my first post but with BP also. It's doing exactly like you and I both have mentioned. FF seems to "refresh" itself, either through some unknown fight mechanic, etc. BP does not. Both continue to tick for their fully AP buffed amounts.

As a sidenote, I don't see the addon as doing anything wrong, as all it is looking for is the log line saying that it is refreshed, and updating its status based on your current AP at the time. Just something extra for us to keep in mind.

I think the combat log quirk you're seeing is due to the interaction of overlapping equivalent boss debuffs (i.e., the slowed attack speed portion)-- Thunder Clap, etc. The dot portion of Frost Fever stays on and remains the same, for all intents and purposes, but it looks like the slowing portion is being treated differently.

I went through a couple of my logs for Anub'arak. The ones with multiple DKs are hard to decipher because of all the Frost Fevers interacting. However, one where I'm the only DK makes it a bit clearer. Note that I'm unholy spec in this and not using Glyph of Disease. Here are a few examples:

[19:51:08.654] Hewn casts Icy Touch on Anub'arak
[19:51:08.986] Anub'arak's Earth Shock fades
[19:51:08.986] Anub'arak afflicted by Frost Fever from Hewn

Expected behavior there-- more powerful debuff overwrites weaker one.

[19:51:22.397] Hewn casts Icy Touch on Anub'arak
[19:51:22.756] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Hewn
[19:51:23.280] Anub'arak afflicted by Thunder Clap from Feji
[19:51:23.280] Anub'arak's Frost Fever is refreshed by Hewn

This one is more telling. There's always a short delay in the log between when my IT is cast and FF afflicts/refreshes, but the second refresh is concurrent with the application of a more powerful debuff. I haven't cast anything to incite the second refresh.

Skimming the rest of the log, every mystery refresh that isn't cast by me happens concurrently with Improved Thunder Clap afflicting the target or dropping off. My guess is that it appears as a refresh in the combat log because the dot portion, obviously, shouldn't be overwritten.

rh8452 · 11/15/09, 4:10 PM

With the GoD change, I suspect it now won't be worth using for almost any fights, putting the GoD debate to rest once and for all. I was already planning on ditching it in my unholy spec because there's so many add fights and fights where you need to be off the boss for periods where diseases could fall off, but if this mentioned change goes into effect the glyph becomes next to useless as blood.

On the bright side, a lot of ICC gear seems to have a ton of arpen on it, including saurfang's trinket, making gunning for the hard cap seriously possible again. At least, it should be rather easy to get enough passive arpen to use the proc trinket out of the 5-man (which only gives 450ish arpen on proc) to cap yourself.

Bruners · 11/16/09, 2:08 AM

I'm wondering if anyone has experienced that [Glyph of Disease] sometimes does not refresh the diseases when you try to refresh it with a Death Rune made from a Unholy Rune or Frost Rune.

I have had this happening a couple of times now in Trial of the Grand Crusade, the Death Rune goes on cool-down but the diseases are not refreshed, resulting in not only wasting a Death Rune but also a "free" Death Strike.

waananii · 11/16/09, 3:05 AM

Does the rune go on the full 7-9 sec CD, or is it back up in 1-2 secs?
It may be that the pestilence is just missing(I'm fairly sure it would be affected by the hit cap in some way).

Bruners · 11/16/09, 3:19 AM

Originally Posted by waananii

Does the rune go on the full 7-9 sec CD, or is it back up in 1-2 secs?
It may be that the pestilence is just missing(I'm fairly sure it would be affected by the hit cap in some way).

It might be that it is missing but I'm sure it went on full cool-down the last time it happened, as it has happened randomly it's hard to track. The fact that I'm slightly below the hit cap values your point higher.

Thyrial · 11/16/09, 4:44 AM

Originally Posted by rh8452

With the GoD change, I suspect it now won't be worth using for almost any fights, putting the GoD debate to rest once and for all. I was already planning on ditching it in my unholy spec because there's so many add fights and fights where you need to be off the boss for periods where diseases could fall off, but if this mentioned change goes into effect the glyph becomes next to useless as blood.

On the bright side, a lot of ICC gear seems to have a ton of arpen on it, including saurfang's trinket, making gunning for the hard cap seriously possible again. At least, it should be rather easy to get enough passive arpen to use the proc trinket out of the 5-man (which only gives 450ish arpen on proc) to cap yourself.

I disagree... Rolling diseases are not the only advantage to GoD and GoDD is not as impressive now as it was when SoVH was the BiS Sigil. They will probably be about equal but in my opinion the less rigid priority system that GoD allows makes it more than worth keeping even if GoDD may be a slight numerical increase, which at this point I doubt.

Scyzek · 11/16/09, 4:57 AM

On DRW inheriting buffs, does it also inherit the remaining timer? IE: [Mjolnir Runestone] and I have to wait 5 seconds before DRW + Hysteria come off cooldown, does DRW only get 4 seconds of the buff, or just take it as a perma buff until DRW expires? For the time being, I'm just using DRW as quickly as I can if I have a trinket proc running, since internal cooldown won't allow it to refresh quickly.

Medestruit · 11/16/09, 9:10 AM

I'm fairly certain DRW inherits all buffs, regardless of duration, as static increases to it's ability for it's full duration(even though your main strikes do not inherit the same behavior after durations fall of and procs are on ICD's). I could be 100% wrong on this, however(since the inherent value of DRW is 50% of the damage done by your strikes, minus the talented buffs).

Gearbox · 11/16/09, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by rh8452

With the GoD change, I suspect it now won't be worth using for almost any fights, putting the GoD debate to rest once and for all. I was already planning on ditching it in my unholy spec because there's so many add fights and fights where you need to be off the boss for periods where diseases could fall off, but if this mentioned change goes into effect the glyph becomes next to useless as blood.

I don't think you are seeing the full benefit of GoD. Since it was 'fixed' last time, and it allowed for proper refreshes of both diseases, you are therefore refreshing both diseases with one rune instead of two (with 2pt9, greatness, paragon, etc etc, you still have a good chance of a very high AP when you cast pest). Also, you allow yourself to have a FR/UR combo available for a fully buffed death strike, or if you have DRs up, that's two buffed HS's that would otherwise have to wait 2 full GCDs for you to reapply diseases, and also incur the chance for FF to miss if you are not spell capped. This only touches on the surface of GoD's utility, so, don't write it off completely yet.