Blood Simple - The Day The Music Died - Page 50

Drenhar · 09/17/09, 10:06 PM

Yes, 'raid buffed' is referring to the buffs you recieve from the others in your raid.

fainflinn · 09/17/09, 11:09 PM

How's everyone feel about gemming for Arp over Str if using both deaths choice and greatness card ?
i know everything points to gemming for STR but i tried gemming full arp now that i have both these trinks and i hardly notice the difference
I feel like i doing something wrong not gemming full str but i dont maybe its just me but i cant see a huge change in dps going full arp

Khaosknight · 09/17/09, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by fainflinn

How's everyone feel about gemming for Arp over Str if using both deaths choice and greatness card ?
i know everything points to gemming for STR but i tried gemming full arp now that i have both these trinks and i hardly notice the difference
I feel like i doing something wrong not gemming full str but i dont maybe its just me but i cant see a huge change in dps going full arp

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in 3.2.2 you'll see a noticeable difference. My advice is to begin gemming straight str now.

fainflinn · 09/17/09, 11:39 PM

So I assume having 90% ArP dont matter as much anymore?
without the trinket proc or gemming hard for it I assume STR beats out ArP then ?

Invisus · 09/18/09, 3:19 AM

Originally Posted by fainflinn

So I assume having 90% ArP dont matter as much anymore?
without the trinket proc or gemming hard for it I assume STR beats out ArP then ?

Considering the stat weights on the front of the page marking ArP as lower than Str on top of the fact that the lower of the two is about to take a 20% hit, then logic dictates that it does. You're not going to be able to gem a significant enough amount to impact your DPS as much as gemming Strength will after the patch. End of story.

Bonecaller · 09/18/09, 9:47 AM

Originally Posted by Invisus

Considering the stat weights on the front of the page marking ArP as lower than Str on top of the fact that the lower of the two is about to take a 20% hit, then logic dictates that it does. You're not going to be able to gem a significant enough amount to impact your DPS as much as gemming Strength will after the patch. End of story.

In Highendgear (probably Icecrown), STR and Arm.Pen. will have about the same value so i would gem for strength until then, especially when you have a frost/unholy dualspecc. You also have to consider that in aoe situations, armor penetration only affects HS, not DND, diseases and so on. Having a lot of IC gear might change it for singletarget dps.

Those stat weights on the front page are simply outdated. In my simulations for ilvl245 gear after the arm. pen. nerf, i get quite some other results:

EP:50 | AttackPower | 1
EP:50 | Strength | 2,85
EP:50 | Agility | 1,34
EP:50 | CritRating | 2,26
EP:50 | HasteRating | 1,9
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 2,69
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 3,84
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 5,15

It's fair to assume that armor penetration would be best for blood until patch, but i hope it won't take too long anyway.

Algroth · 09/18/09, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bonecaller

EP:50 | AttackPower | 1
EP:50 | Strength | 2,85
EP:50 | Agility | 1,34
EP:50 | CritRating | 2,26
EP:50 | HasteRating | 1,9
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 2,69
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 3,84
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 5,15

It's fair to assume that armor penetration would be best for blood until patch, but i hope it won't take too long anyway.

Could you post the parameters you used in your simulation? The main reason why I ask is that even though ArP is taking a nerf, it still scales effectively quadratically (its a more complicated function but I remember seeing a quadratic fit of it with R^2 > .9). So still the more armor pen you have the more each point is worth up to the cap, which makes posting a constant number for the AP conversion slightly misleading.

Bonecaller · 09/18/09, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Algroth

Could you post the parameters you used in your simulation? The main reason why I ask is that even though ArP is taking a nerf, it still scales effectively quadratically (its a more complicated function but I remember seeing a quadratic fit of it with R^2 > .9). So still the more armor pen you have the more each point is worth up to the cap, which makes posting a constant number for the AP conversion slightly misleading.

Well i have been choosing the vlaues you should have in ilvl245 gear (it isn't the exact value, but pretty close to it, depending on the set you choose):

<stat>
<Strength>2063</Strength>
<Agility>324</Agility>
<Intel>58</Intel>
<Armor>13973</Armor>
<AttackPower>1257</AttackPower>
<HitRating>268</HitRating>
<CritRating>775</CritRating>
<HasteRating>105</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>472</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>177</ExpertiseRating>
</stat>
<weapon>
<count>1</count>
<mainhand>
<dps>255.7</dps>
<speed>3.6</speed>
</mainhand>
<T92PDPS>1</T92PDPS>
<T94PDPS>1</T94PDPS>

I believe those are pretty realistic numbers. I could run a EP simulation for ilvl258 gear and full armor penetration gemming, but i don't believe it would change too much.

fainflinn · 09/18/09, 4:12 PM

I've gone back gemming all for STR now anyways since I dual spec Unholy
but gemming full ArP with the 2 trinkets seemed better still

I'm also noticing as you start to become geared out armor pen seems to get lower and lower anyways
I know ArP is gonna be gone soon enough as it is

So is there anypoint of even trying to keep alot of ArP as blood IF you can pick STR over it as your itemizing?

Bonecaller · 09/18/09, 6:15 PM

And with ilvl258 loot + armor penetration gemming:

EP:50 | AttackPower | 1
EP:50 | Strength | 2,89
EP:50 | Agility | 1,38
EP:50 | CritRating | 2,25
EP:50 | HasteRating | 1,94
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 3,02
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 3,75
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 4,98
EP: | 2T9 | 146,77
EP: | 4T9 | 446,77

Basis:
<stat>
<Strength>1923</Strength>
<Agility>280</Agility>
<Intel>58</Intel>
<Armor>13973</Armor>
<AttackPower>1257</AttackPower>
<HitRating>268</HitRating>
<CritRating>775</CritRating>
<HasteRating>105</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>772</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>177</ExpertiseRating>
</stat>
<weapon>
<count>1</count>
<mainhand>
<dps>281.7</dps>
<speed>3.6</speed>

So armor penetration may already overtake with BIS T9 gear (again). My simulation time was 3000 hours so the results should be pretty good.

zedmekis · 09/19/09, 12:00 AM

Hi (and sorry for my poor english but i'm canadian)

I have a little problem with my castsequence,

I want to put this :
/cast [target=Player] Hysteria
/targetlasttarget

in that :

/castsequence reset=combat/target PS, IT, DS, HS, HS, [HYSTERIA HERE] , DRW, DS, HS, HS HS, Blood tap, HS

is it possible to do that by any method ?

exemple write something like : .. HS, tar [player], cast hysteria, tar lasttarget , DRW..

or

by sending this cast sequence to a castbar button ?

thanks in advance

oh and sorry if I'm not at the right place to post that but I don't find any method :S

Cythen · 09/19/09, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

That seems like a rather good solution, actually. Heart Strike's cleave has always been more annoying than anything when CC comes into play, and on Faction Champions it's nearly useless. I would think giving HS an alternate function and making Blood Strike into a cleave for the Blood Tree using the current damage it does would solve many problems as once. If they want to keep things from feeling lame, I'd think making it so hitting Blood Strike doesn't feel like being punished is an important thing as well, in addition to letting us keep our full single target DPS against single targets in CC sensitive situations.

Blood has always been single target oriented. This is very evident when tanking as blood where we dominate single target threat per second. I have no problem with blizzard keeping blood to this theme and to me it seems that they want to emphasis this role as this does cause almost a 25% cut to blood's AOE damage.

I would also like to see an alternate change to this ability such as a positive change to Sudden Doom procs for Heart Strike. Something to the effect of 15% chance for Blood Strike 30% chance for Heart Strike. This is still a decrease in power in AOE in my opinion but leans the blood tree toward an even more signle target oriented spec. If they adding something extra to Heart Strike it could justify getting rid of the cleave all together.

Velk · 09/19/09, 1:47 AM

Originally Posted by zedmekis

Hi (and sorry for my poor english but i'm canadian)

I have a little problem with my castsequence,

I want to put this :
/cast [target=Player] Hysteria
/targetlasttarget

Put the player's name in the macro and then there's no reason to do so, it will just fire off hysteria on them while you remain on the current target.

e.g.
/cast [target=zedmekis] Hysteria

Or if you are really indecisive about who you want to hysteria and have to keep changing it, try making a [target=focus] one instead and focus the person you are going to H next.

Inbreed · 09/19/09, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by fainflinn

I've gone back gemming all for STR now anyways since I dual spec Unholy
but gemming full ArP with the 2 trinkets seemed better still

I'm also noticing as you start to become geared out armor pen seems to get lower and lower anyways
I know ArP is gonna be gone soon enough as it is

So is there anypoint of even trying to keep alot of ArP as blood IF you can pick STR over it as your itemizing?

most of the new i245+ gear are str oriented and with the inc. nerf to arPen, I would just go pure STR now and when patch come you be set. Price of the STR gem will go up when the patch come because of all the DK and warrior are gonna go and buy them to switch.

Liquify · 09/19/09, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bonecaller

And with ilvl258 loot + armor penetration gemming:

EP:50 | AttackPower | 1
EP:50 | Strength | 2,89
EP:50 | Agility | 1,38
EP:50 | CritRating | 2,25
EP:50 | HasteRating | 1,94
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 3,02
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 3,75
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 4,98
EP: | 2T9 | 146,77
EP: | 4T9 | 446,77

Basis:
<stat>
<Strength>1923</Strength>
<Agility>280</Agility>
<Intel>58</Intel>
<Armor>13973</Armor>
<AttackPower>1257</AttackPower>
<HitRating>268</HitRating>
<CritRating>775</CritRating>
<HasteRating>105</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>772</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>177</ExpertiseRating>
</stat>
<weapon>
<count>1</count>
<mainhand>
<dps>281.7</dps>
<speed>3.6</speed>

So armor penetration may already overtake with BIS T9 gear (again). My simulation time was 3000 hours so the results should be pretty good.

So, according to this, hit then expertise should be gemming priority? I know it used to be str or ArP before 3.2, and I dont really want to dig through 30 pages to get an answer.