Not a chance - Blood already suffers with GCD clashes too much to make use of all the RP you're already getting, resulting in already wasted RP.
Scent of Blood gives you 100-150 rp on Festergut, that's about equal to Blood Worms. It doesn't work on most other bosses, so the worms clearly are the better option.
Originally Posted by nerdfuel
I haven't tried Blood in ICC or ToGC yet, I plan on being Blood for ICC 25 tonight and If I feel like I'm performing better as Blood then I have the gems ready to socket full ArP before the Plagueworks and Crimson Halls.
I tried one week as Blood with Arp gemmed. I got to ~70%, but the result was underwhelming. I was doing 500 dps more the next week as Unholy on Saurfang and I didn't even play very well that day.
Scent of Blood gives you 100-150 rp on Festergut, that's about equal to Blood Worms. It doesn't work on most other bosses, so the worms clearly are the better option.
100-150 RP would be around an extra 15,000 damage - in a 4 minute festergut kill thats around 60 dps. So its far below Blood Worms even in a fight its optimal for (and suboptimal for worms due to AOE).
I can't think of a reason to ever take Scent of Blood over bloodworms currently.
You want to get more ArP even if there is already a lot of ArP on your gear because its value increases the more you have.
Did some playing with math to illustrate this.
First off, your armor ignored will be up to your ArPen rating divided by 1399.6 (13.996 to get in terms of percentage) times that of the boss armor.
%Ignored = ArPen/1399.6
A level 83 raid boss has 10643 armor. The armor reduction does not always work off of this armor. Blizzard has explained that the armor used to calculate the reduction is capped. This cap is level dependent and can be found as:
Cap=(Armor+C)/3
Where C is:
C=400+85*AttackerLevell+4.5*85*(AttackerLevel-59) (For 60 plus, different formula for targets under 60)
For a level 80 attacker C = 15232.5
The cap is therefore 25875.5/3 or roughly 8625.1666
The amount of armor ignored as a function of armor penetration is therefore:
(To check, at 0 ArPen you should get 10643/(10643+15232.5) = -1727.03246/-4198.8 = 0.411316 or roughly 41% Damage Reduction)
Now to get a meaningful plot, I calculated the one minus percent damage reduction for armor penetration from 0 to 1400, then divided that by one minus the percent reduction from 0 ArPen. What this effectively does is show how our damage scales with ArPen. You can see that this is not a linear plot, and we do indeed get more from armor penetration with more armor penetration.
Here is the plot I made of this:
If you do Z damage at 0 ArPen, you will do Z*Y with X ArPen where this plot is Y(X).
Also understand that I neglected the hard cap. Should be roughly 1339.6 ArPen (1339.6/1339.6 = 1 or 100% Armor Ignored. Blizz has stated explicitly that you cannot exceed 100% armor ignored.)
Last edited by TheRealPerfexion : 02/17/10 at 10:58 AM.
I tried one week as Blood with Arp gemmed. I got to ~70%, but the result was underwhelming. I was doing 500 dps more the next week as Unholy on Saurfang and I didn't even play very well that day.
I would say with the gear coming out and scaling up, Blood is coming closer to Unholy in general, but gemming for strictly ArP is still not worth it. STR just scales far too well for DKs in general.
I would say with the gear coming out and scaling up, Blood is coming closer to Unholy in general, but gemming for strictly ArP is still not worth it. STR just scales far too well for DKs in general.
Yes, Strength scales very well for DKs in general but for Blood DKs the closer you get to hard cap the better ArP is going to scale and its going to scale better than Str. If you only play Blood for your guild you will eventually gem for ArP hard cap but you spec Unholy every once in awhile for whatever reason then its obviously not worth it.
I'm a big fan of ArP as a Blood DK. It has served me very well.
Here's what I don't understand: how do we assign a regular point value for ArP (2.75 APE) when it scales so dramatically? Shouldn't ArP be worth a different number of points depending on how much ArP you already have?
1) Related, does anyone know how Blood Gorged works, exactly? Does it just add the 10% directly to whatever ArP your equipment provides? I find the actual metric for figuring out ArP to be a bit dense. It appears that there's more to the calculation than "effectively just subtract X% of armor." Am I correct or just making it more difficult?
2) The conventional wisdom is that ArP gems should be substituted for strength at ~6200 (buffed) AP. If the above is true, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that ArP becomes more valuable than Str after a certain ArP score?
I'm a big fan of ArP as a Blood DK. It has served me very well.
Here's what I don't understand: how do we assign a regular point value for ArP (2.75 APE) when it scales so dramatically? Shouldn't ArP be worth a different number of points depending on how much ArP you already have?
1) Related, does anyone know how Blood Gorged works, exactly? Does it just add the 10% directly to whatever ArP your equipment provides? I find the actual metric for figuring out ArP to be a bit dense. It appears that there's more to the calculation than "effectively just subtract X% of armor." Am I correct or just making it more difficult?
2) The conventional wisdom is that ArP gems should be substituted for strength at ~6200 (buffed) AP. If the above is true, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that ArP becomes more valuable than Str after a certain ArP score?
This is why posting stat weights is a bad idea. The 2.75 number is only valid for the OP's gear, and only when he simmed his stat weights. If you aren't using exactly what he was using, then the stat weights will be different. In all likelyhood, they will be very similar, but you really need to generate your own if you want them to be accurate.
Blood gorged works by effectively lowering the arp cap to 90%, or 1260. Other than that, I'm not well-read on the armor pen formula, but there was a fairly recent post by blizzard explaining the formulas behind it.
That conventional wisdom hasn't been correct in a long time. There is a point where arp becomes more valuable than str, but it depends on your gear, your raid buffs, your spec, etc. In short, the only person who can determine it is you. If you want to find that point, I suggest you become familiar with Kahorie's Simulator.
2) The conventional wisdom is that ArP gems should be substituted for strength at ~6200 (buffed) AP. If the above is true, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that ArP becomes more valuable than Str after a certain ArP score?
I believe the conventional wisdom relates to general level of gear. If you're gearing as a Blood DK, around the time your gear gives you 6200 buffed AP, you'll (more than likely) be within spitting distance of where the ArP scaling overtakes Str, in which case, you can probably start gemming for it since the DPS loss would be insignificant if you're just under the mark by a few, and a single small upgrade will put you over the line. At least, that's my translation.
Just stop! Forget that you ever heard of 6200 number. It was never correct, at one time long time ago it was used as a somewhat valid estimate (for one it was before arp nerf).
If you want to know your precise stat weights, use Kathorie's simulator. It's really easy to use.
As an illustration, using Kathorie's Sim with my gear and blood spec puts STR at 2,89 and ARP at 3,10.
I'm a big fan of ArP as a Blood DK. It has served me very well.
Here's what I don't understand: how do we assign a regular point value for ArP (2.75 APE) when it scales so dramatically? Shouldn't ArP be worth a different number of points depending on how much ArP you already have?
1) Related, does anyone know how Blood Gorged works, exactly? Does it just add the 10% directly to whatever ArP your equipment provides? I find the actual metric for figuring out ArP to be a bit dense. It appears that there's more to the calculation than "effectively just subtract X% of armor." Am I correct or just making it more difficult?
2) The conventional wisdom is that ArP gems should be substituted for strength at ~6200 (buffed) AP. If the above is true, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that ArP becomes more valuable than Str after a certain ArP score?
Regarding your opening statement:
Yes, ArPen will be worth a different amount depending on your other stats such as Hit, Crit, Ap, Haste, etc. This is due to the multiplicative nature of the stat. For instance. Strength increases your attack power. Your attack power scales the damage of your attacks. The boss armor reduces your damage in a non-linear way. ArPen reduces your targets effective armor linearly, but because damage reduction from armor is lot linear, the effective DPS increase due to ArPen is not linear. Therefore all stat weights will only apply for your current spec with your current gear with your current rotation or priority system. There are no exact stat weights for everyone. Currently you should be either calculating these weights by hand, or getting these from one of the handy apps created by the community members (Kohorie's, Rawr DPSDK, etc.).
Regarding Question 1:
Blood Gorged Simply adds 10% to the percent of armor ignored. If you devide your ArPen rating by 13.995 and add 10 to that, you will find the percent up to which you could be ignoring of your targets armor with your ArPen and Blood Gorged. I posted this a few posts back, but again, the amount of armor which is used to calculate how much is ignored is "capped". This cap is:
Cap=(Armor+C)/3
Where C is:
C=400+85*TargetLevel+4.5*85*(TargetLevel-59) (For 60 plus, different formula for targets under 60)
Example. You have 500 ArPen and Blood Gorged. You will ignore up to 500/13.995+10% = 45.727% of your targets armor. A level 83 raid boss has 10643 armor, but the armor used to calculate the amount ignored is capped at
Cap = (Armor+C)/3 = (10643+16635)/(3) = 9092.67
So, you are ignoring 9092.67*45.727% or 4157.81 Armor.
Therefore, the boss now has 10643-4157.81 = 6485.19 Armor.
Regarding Question 2:
Running over the math real fast in my head, yes, after some critical AP, ArPen is more effective than Str, however, this critical ArPen is different for every Blood DK depending on your gear, buffs, etc. So its really useless to try to figure this critical AP out when you can just sim/calculate the stat weights.
Originally Posted by nehru
I believe the conventional wisdom relates to general level of gear. If you're gearing as a Blood DK, around the time your gear gives you 6200 buffed AP, you'll (more than likely) be within spitting distance of where the ArP scaling overtakes Str, in which case, you can probably start gemming for it since the DPS loss would be insignificant if you're just under the mark by a few, and a single small upgrade will put you over the line. At least, that's my translation.
I am at close to 7K raid buffed AP (Well over that with Abomination's Might, which is something like 99% of the fight. With Trueshot Aura I would be over this while standing outside of the fight) but for me Str has a slightly higher weight than ArPen.
Really, moral of the story is use a simulator or calculate your stat weights for yourself.
Last edited by TheRealPerfexion : 01/21/10 at 4:50 PM.
Just stop! Forget that you ever heard of 6200 number. It was never correct, at one time long time ago it was used as a somewhat valid estimate (for one it was before arp nerf).
If you want to know your precise stat weights, use Kathorie's simulator. It's really easy to use.
As an illustration, using Kathorie's Sim with my gear and blood spec puts STR at 2,89 and ARP at 3,10.
TheRealPerfexion, thanks for clarifying. The plot helped illustrate quite a bit.
I asked my initial question about ArP a little too hastily as Rawr had suddenly recommended I gem exclusively for ArP and I posted here without concrete info. My mistake.
Zagor, I'm in the same boat. With my current gear configuration, Kahorie's Sim also suggests a switch to ArP:
EP Strength | 2.82
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 4.43
This is with 2340 Str and 576 ArP (41.16%) with all gems favoring Str, both the T9 and T10 two-piece bonuses, and Death's Choice with Whispering Fanged Skull and the Exalted Ashen ring, so there's a fair amount of AP and Str being procced which might sway the sims towards ArP with RNG in my favor. That is, unless I've screwed something up in Kahorie's Sim, Rawr, and Askmrrobot simultaneously which the former two yielding bigger dps numbers with every single gem socket filled with 20 ArP gems + 3x JC ones, even ignoring all socket bonuses. I'm very hesitant to stack to this point though I must admit although the data seems consistent. It's possible that hitting 4pcT10 and changing a trinket may lead to Str being more valuable in my case again. The upcoming Str Ashen ring is yet to be seen as well, and what its proc will be.
Based on the math, there's a point where it looks like it's preferable to stack ArP rather than Str gems, but where that exact point is depends on your own gear's raw Str and ArP itemization combined, so it's not as simple as starting to stack after a certain point like it theoretically was in early Ulduar.
As mentioned, sims seem to be the best answer for each individual case.
However, then I realized since I'm not applying IT and PS until late in my rotation (with DRW up), I'll be losing potential damage due to the DRW being a lot weaker without its diseases on the target. I tried with another rotation instead:
Now, I can't really figure out which one of these rotations will benefit me the most. The upside of the last mentioned rotation is that I'll get the most out of my DRW by applying diseases right after activating it, however, since both IT and PS do fairly low damage, I'd be losing out on quite a lot of damage. In addition to this, my Whispering Fanged Skull trinket procs off of my first hit, and if I decided to apply DRW AFTER my first 18 second rotation, I'd be losing out on 1100 AP for my DRW.
So in the long run, would it be better to refresh diseases immediately after activating DRW, or just keep my rotation going as normal (reapply diseases after HS x4)?
Trying to figure out the best possible starting sequence.
Wait a rotation before popping DRW. Or a bit longer so everything comes off of cooldown.
Well, doing it the way I do it, my rotation doesn't get messed up. I can maintain the smooth blood rotation.
You say wait out a rotation. Is it really worth it? My DRW will lose a 1100 AP proc for sure, and maybe an ArP proc as well. Is it really worth waiting?
My opener came about when rolling diseases was the bread and butter of the GoD spec, and it's still what I use now. The 5 strikes without diseases I get is a very small amount of dps loss over the course of a 5-10 minute fight. Opening with DS also puts Abom's Might up right away for your entire raid, if you dont have someone else contributing a similar buff. This is the best thing that I have found to maximize my DRW *and* Ghoul potential at the beginning of a fight.
DS>HS>HS>BT>HS>DS (By this time, all of my procs are up 90+% of the time, Bloody Vengance is @ 3 Stacks)
Then
Ghoul>Hyst+DRW And at this point, you have 6 Death Runes, All coming off cooldown in order so there is no need to use ERW. If Bloodlust isn't running by now, chug a haste potion right before your Hyst+DRW macro so it benefits as well as you.
Then
PS>IT (PS first for that one last melee swing to get a proc going, most procs happen before diseases apply also)
The Ghoul out first gives it time to get its slow ass out of the ground and start swinging, also summoning it with procs rolling gives it a higher dps as it takes a snapshot of your current stats at the time it is summoned.
Then
HS>HS>HS>HS>DS>DC>HS (DRW Fades Here) >HS>DS>DC>DC (I don't try and memorize this, as it just happens that way with the priority).
From Here on out, using a GoD spec, I pestilence (2/2 Epidemic gives me ~1 second to do this), and continue to follow the HS>DS>DC priority, using pest when diseases have <3 seconds left to avoid missing ticks.
With GoDD at this point I would ERW to reset your runes, then redo diseases and follow your regular rotation. ERW will reset the out-of-balance you have from the non-standard "opener".
Here is a log showing exactly what I mean from our 25man tonight, don't worry that its a wipe , but look @ the opening peaks you can get when things line up right. - World of Logs
Before the change to GoD, a common practice was to DS HS HS to get procs flowing before you use cooldowns and first apply diseases before you roll them. Those three attacks along with the melee swings that go with them are usually enough to proc all of your trinkets, your sigil, and 2pt9 (which obviously won't be quite as important anymore since many people are nearing 4pt10).
After your procs are all up, pop your racial, Ghoul, Hysteria, and DRW. Apply diseases and go on as normal.
With 4pt10, it may be more beneficial to go through your first ten seconds as normal to get the 3% damage buff, and then use cooldowns and summon DRW and apply diseases again even though the first application is still running.
I think the reason for the lackluster performance when gemming all ArPen has to do with the fact that your reducing the amount of damage that is multiplied by the ArPen increase. From some testing I've done on Kahorie's I found that by swapping out Str for ArPen your actually reducing the stat weight of ArPen. Other stat weights get reduced as well obviously but that's outside of the discussion at the moment. The break even point for my gear was about 6.5 gems. 7 gems had strength's stat weight exceeding ArPen again. The damage exceeds that of all Strength gems still but is still less damage than having 6 ArPen gems. The difference is only about 10 dps.
To illustrate my point I ran some sims based on my gear. I then repeated the sim and removed 20 strength and added 20 ArP to simulate gem swapping.
This is the sim with my current actual gear and stats:
Ability
Damage done
hits
Crits
Misses
Uptime
Total
%
#
Avg
#
%
Avg
#
%
Avg
#
%
%
HeartStrike
4573316774
27.5
556125
8223.5
313380
56.4
4921.4
242745
43.6
12486.5
MainHand
4033623520
24.3
632842
6373.8
415264
65.6
4188.6
217578
34.4
10544.4
DeathCoil
1698597764
10.2
304982
5569.5
197869
64.9
4057.6
107113
35.1
8362.4
DeathStrike
1500017316
9
152445
9839.7
91034
59.7
6077.5
61411
40.3
15416.7
BloodPlague
1043594563
6.3
547587
1905.8
358365
65.4
1394.7
189222
34.6
2873.8
91.3
91.3
DRW
858510884
5.2
329519
2605.3
234435
71.1
95084
28.9
FrostFever
764837753
4.6
549196
1392.6
549196
100
1392.6
91.5
91.5
Necrosis
626894302
3.8
632842
990.6
632842
100
BloodCakedBlade
466195249
2.8
190334
2449.4
190334
100
2449.4
Ghoul
324433512
2
412181
787.1
358557
87
704.2
53624
13
1341.8
PlagueStrike
320441459
1.9
78227
4096.3
46566
59.5
2630.7
31661
40.5
6251.8
IcyTouch
211813407
1.3
78457
2699.7
50721
64.6
1963.6
27736
35.4
4045.9
BloodWorms
184225302
1.1
1649600
111.7
1649600
100
BloodStrike
3725
1
3725
1
100
3725
ScourgeStrike
3173
1
3173
1
100
3173
ScourgeStrikeMagical
2268
1
2268
1
100
2268
DPS
9226
Total Damage
16606.51m
in 500h
Threat Per Second
5186
Generated in
102s
Template:
Blood 51-00-20
Priority:
Blood
Presence:
Blood
Sigil:
Virulence
RuneEnchant:
FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:
True
This is with a total of 6 gems replaced:
Ability
Damage done
hits
Crits
Misses
Uptime
Total
%
#
Avg
#
%
Avg
#
%
Avg
#
%
%
HeartStrike
4636908201
27.9
556125
8337.9
313380
56.4
4989.8
242745
43.6
12660.3
MainHand
4074756600
24.5
632842
6438.8
415264
65.6
4231.3
217578
34.4
10652
DeathCoil
1662243207
10
304982
5450.3
197869
64.9
3970.8
107113
35.1
8183.4
DeathStrike
1517967912
9.1
152445
9957.5
91034
59.7
6150.2
61411
40.3
15601.2
BloodPlague
1016664042
6.1
547587
1856.6
358365
65.4
1358.7
189222
34.6
2799.7
91.3
91.3
DRW
840899414
5.1
329519
2551.9
234435
71.1
95084
28.9
FrostFever
745049358
4.5
549196
1356.6
549196
100
1356.6
91.5
91.5
Necrosis
633300246
3.8
632842
1000.7
632842
100
BloodCakedBlade
470967600
2.8
190334
2474.4
190334
100
2474.4
PlagueStrike
324446003
2
78227
4147.5
46566
59.5
2663.7
31661
40.5
6329.8
Ghoul
315756715
1.9
412181
766.1
358557
87
685.3
53624
13
1306
IcyTouch
207068717
1.2
78457
2639.3
50721
64.6
1919.5
27736
35.4
3955.4
BloodWorms
181206219
1.1
1649600
109.8
1649600
100
BloodStrike
3804
1
3804
1
100
3804
ScourgeStrike
3238
1
3238
1
100
3238
ScourgeStrikeMagical
2316
1
2316
1
100
2316
DPS
9237
Total Damage
16627.24m
in 500h
Threat Per Second
5202
Generated in
104s
Template:
Blood 51-00-20
Priority:
Blood
Presence:
Blood
Sigil:
Virulence
RuneEnchant:
FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:
True
And just for illustrations point this is with 7 gems replaced:
Ability
Damage done
hits
Crits
Misses
Uptime
Total
%
#
Avg
#
%
Avg
#
%
Avg
#
%
%
HeartStrike
4644959285
27.9
555981
8354.5
313294
56.3
4999.1
242687
43.7
12686.2
MainHand
4078785081
24.5
632842
6445.2
415264
65.6
4237.3
217578
34.4
10659.2
DeathCoil
1654876186
10
304984
5426.1
197871
64.9
3953.5
107113
35.1
8146.4
DeathStrike
1520386127
9.1
152431
9974.3
91026
59.7
6161.7
61405
40.3
15625.9
BloodPlague
1011988462
6.1
547841
1847.2
358478
65.4
1351.9
189363
34.6
2784.8
91.3
91.3
DRW
837484513
5
328952
2545.9
233914
71.1
95038
28.9
FrostFever
741304153
4.5
549322
1349.5
549322
100
1349.5
91.6
91.6
Necrosis
633994737
3.8
632842
1001.8
632842
100
BloodCakedBlade
471329326
2.8
190334
2476.3
190334
100
2476.3
PlagueStrike
325180358
2
78263
4155
46584
59.5
2669.5
31679
40.5
6339.4
Ghoul
314377600
1.9
412556
762
358756
87
681.6
53800
13
1298
IcyTouch
206180615
1.2
78475
2627.3
50733
64.6
1910.9
27742
35.4
3937.5
BloodWorms
180426005
1.1
1649210
109.4
1649210
100
BloodStrike
3805
1
3805
1
100
3805
ScourgeStrike
3239
1
3239
1
100
3239
ScourgeStrikeMagical
2317
1
2317
1
100
2317
DPS
9234
Total Damage
16621.28m
in 500h
Threat Per Second
5202
Generated in
101s
Template:
Blood 51-00-20
Priority:
Blood
Presence:
Blood
Sigil:
Virulence
RuneEnchant:
FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:
True
So in effect gemming all ArPen when it's stat weight exceeds Strength is a bad idea as most people believed all along. But gemming some ArPen can slightly increase your dps as long as you keep your ArPen's stat weight equal to or greater than your Strength's stat weight. I'm sure there's a better way to illustrate but I'm no mathematician.
So in effect gemming all ArPen when it's stat weight exceeds Strength is a bad idea as most people believed all along. But gemming some ArPen can slightly increase your dps as long as you keep your ArPen's stat weight equal to or greater than your Strength's stat weight. I'm sure there's a better way to illustrate but I'm no mathematician.
Yes and no. Gemming arpen is not a bad idea. It's based on gear.
The relationship between arpen and str is very simple. At a certain level of AP, 1 point of arpen would increase your dps more than 1 point of str.
Eg. If 1 pt of str increases my dps by 1 and my current dps is 100, its a 1% increase in damage. Pretend 1 arpen will increase my damage by 1%. However, if my current dps is 1000, 1 str will increase my damage by 0.1%, or 1 dps, while arpen will increase it by 1% or 10 dps.
That was a very rough example taking into account only the arpen and str from gear.
If you can maintain the scenario in which 1 pt of arpen > 1 pt of str, then gem str.
This bring into question the "6200 AP" assumption. There is no exact number in which arpen>str. It is all based on individual gear. Crit, exp, current arpen, etc etc, all factor into determining this number.
For those who want to figure out the number for his or her gear, use the lovely tool called Kahorie's DK simulator.
I do not want to start a discussion about whether blood or unholy is better but i want to share my experiences about blood and unholy.
Last week i decided to try blood with nearly full arp gemmed to see its single target and i was pretty happy with the results. While a week before i did around 9,5k dps as unholy on festergut, i could do 500 more with blood spec sitting at only 75 + 10 % arpen.Even though i got 2x hysteria from our MT i didnt expect this. I also did some rotation mistakes and our ele shamy "forgot" about the melee haste totem :/ So i think with stacking more arp and perfectioning the rotation and cooldown use (installed forteexorcist today) i can still increase my dps bei a decent amount.
Here is the log if someone wants to see: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
What i want to say that in my opinion its definitely worth it to try reaching the arp hard cap with blood.
Here are my current statweights, im at 85% + 10% arp right now:
EP AttackPower | 1 (0,72 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength | 2,86
EP Agility | 1,64
EP CritRating | 2,28
EP HasteEstimated | 1,53
EP HasteRating1 | 1,53
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 3,81
EP ExpertiseRating | 1,92
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 2,72
EP SpellHitRating | 0,31
EP WeaponDPS | 10,14
EP WeaponSpeed | 513,89
Though we dont know how arthas fight and hard modes will look alike until now imo single target is atm more important than aoe damage. There aren`t any heavy aoe fights like anub until now and thus im comfident blood will do its job in icc.
What do you think about this ? Has anyone recently tried blood with full gemmed arp and tested it in the near of arp hardcap?
Here are my current statweights, im at 85% + 10% arp right now:
EP AttackPower | 1 (0,72 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength | 2,86
EP Agility | 1,64
EP CritRating | 2,28
EP HasteEstimated | 1,53
EP HasteRating1 | 1,53
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 3,81
EP ExpertiseRating | 1,92
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 2,72
EP SpellHitRating | 0,31
EP WeaponDPS | 10,14
EP WeaponSpeed | 513,89
What do you think about this ? Has anyone recently tried blood with full gemmed arp and tested it in the near of arp hardcap?
Your stat weighs are perfectly expected, as arpen does increase its value by ALOT at high levels, especially at yours, when its so close to cap.
However, your strength is extremely low (1758) compared to other DKs, which is expected due to the arpen gemming.
I would say that theoretically and mathematically, gemming arpen will yield a higher dps increase. However, in any aoe situations with more than 2 targets, your dps would drop dramatically.
As you approach even higher levels of ICC gear, you should not need to gem all arpen to achieve the same results.
So in effect gemming all ArPen when it's stat weight exceeds Strength is a bad idea as most people believed all along. But gemming some ArPen can slightly increase your dps as long as you keep your ArPen's stat weight equal to or greater than your Strength's stat weight. I'm sure there's a better way to illustrate but I'm no mathematician.
There is actually a very simple reason why the DPS went down after a certain point. Looking at your armory, you have [Grim Toll] equipped. Due to the proc on the trinket, Arp becomes less valuable after a certain point because of the 100% armor reduction cap, because whenever the trinket is up, any arp more then the cap (which is 1260 for Blood due to Blood Gorged) is not actually adding anything. So any arp added beyond 648 with [Grim Toll] is not worth as much as it was before 648 and therefore makes the str gems superior.
There is actually a very simple reason why the DPS went down after a certain point. Looking at your armory, you have [Grim Toll] equipped. Due to the proc on the trinket, Arp becomes less valuable after a certain point because of the 100% armor reduction cap, because whenever the trinket is up, any arp more then the cap (which is 1260 for Blood due to Blood Gorged) is not actually adding anything. So any arp added beyond 648 with [Grim Toll] is not worth as much as it was before 648 and therefore makes the str gems superior.
The premise still holds true. It just changes the point at which gemming ArPen stops increasing your dps. I'm using Kahorie's and I re-tested with Greatness instead of Grim Toll. At 12 gems I achieved the same results which is 778 ArPen for me. I currently have 14 Str gems I could replace with ArPen.
neomasterc that's basically the point I was trying to illustrate.
However, in any aoe situations with more than 2 targets, your dps would drop dramatically.
I agree but looking at the current ecnounters in ICC in almost every bossfight single target and burst dps is much more important than aoe damage thus making arp gemming a viable solution
Originally Posted by neomasterc
As you approach even higher levels of ICC gear, you should not need to gem all arpen to achieve the same results.
I also agree here and i want to add that reaching the hardcap also increases the value of strength.
I agree but looking at the current ecnounters in ICC in almost every bossfight single target and burst dps is much more important than aoe damage thus making arp gemming a viable solution
I also agree here and i want to add that reaching the hardcap also increases the value of strength.
Actually, I believe that you are gemming so much arpen that your arpen stat weighing exceeds your str.
What I mean is, at your gear without gems, str is probably still better. You gem arpen, which is a dps loss initially, but towards the end the stat weighing of arpen surpasses str due to arpen gemming.
Your inflated dps is probably due to the 2x hysteria you got from your MT, + 2 of your own, assuming you did NOT stack with DRW= 2 minutes of hysteria=~10% physical damage increase overall.
Either way, bonus hysteria in such a short duration fight (You could pop 2 yourself, 1 or 2 from MT) increases your dps immensely and should not be considered representative of gemming arpen.
the 10% are not correct, as 2 of the 4 hysteria were done by myself, thus you could say the 2 extra hysteria i got from MT gave me 5% overall physical damage increase.
I just want to point out that my sims (kathories, rawr) all give me the same results, at around 50% arpen, arpenrating outvalues strength and this difference grows while approaching the arp hardcap.
01/19/10, 9:58 PM
, but look @ the opening peaks you can get when things line up right. - World of Logs
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