Blood Simple - The Day The Music Died - Page 63

Hb-DB · 10/17/09, 7:35 PM

"One of the current discussions is regarding an inflection point between STR and ArP. It has been currently theorized that once you exceed 6200 AP the APE for ArP will exceed that of STR. Making it proper at that point to start gemming for ArP. The math and sims behind this theory seem solid, and personally once I hit around 6300 AP raid buffed began switching some gems, with positive results thus far".

Is this raid buffed or self buffed and with hit cap and exp cap?

Kaejin · 10/17/09, 8:17 PM

Outdated info. That was before the ArP nerf and wasn't even accurate at the time.

Also, considering you're using GoD, gemming ArP is not a good idea.

AtheistGod · 10/17/09, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

Outdated info. That was before the ArP nerf and wasn't even accurate at the time.

Also, considering you're using GoD, gemming ArP is not a good idea.

GoD supports ArP gemming more than GoDD does.

tetracycloide · 10/19/09, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by AtheistGod

GoD supports ArP gemming more than GoDD does.

GoD's rolling disease mechanic lends itself best to gemming for strength due to the nature of the fallen crusader runeforge. The extra HS does mean GoD scales better with ArP than GoDD but it doesn't necessarily mean you should gem for ArP.

Evilbunny · 10/19/09, 11:21 AM

I've never gemmed for ArP because from what I understood, even before the ArP nerf, the difference in scaling wasn't really significant until you essentially had BiS gear. I don't have Grim Toll or Runestone and probably never will so I'm not overly concerned about hitting the ArP softcap.

Its a bit odd to me that they seem to be pushing DKs more and more towards ArP with the change to Frost Strike in 3.2 and now the change to Scourge Strike, and yet, they have said that ArP is a confusing stat that they don't like and want to get rid of. I guess that is because they are making DKs increasingly physical based because they are having problems balancing PvP and PvE. I'm guessing when they nerfed FS and SS they didn't really understand the ramifications it would have on PvE DPS and Tanking. It seemed a bit awkward when Unholy DKs were bypassing SS because Oblit was just better.

I wonder what the theoretical single-target break-point would be for Str vs. ArP with GoDisease. I assume at some sufficiently high AP level, you would be doing enough damage before armor that the gains from ArP would outweigh all of the scaling that DKs get from strength. I also assume that the break-point would grow as the number of targets grew since we can't hit more than 2 at a time with physical attacks. Then again, maxing AoE damage doesn't seem overly important for any kind of progression, at least so far. Crazy AoE DPS numbers do always look shiny, like when I broke 11k DPS on whelps in Ony and the next closest was at 9k, but that is all ePeen. With the buffs to AoE TPS on T10 tanking, maybe IC will have a decent number of fights where AoE is required.

Kaejin · 10/19/09, 11:29 AM

They balance DKs with ArP because it's not going away until Cataclysm. For now it's a stat that's on gear and they need to make sure that it's useful since we keep getting more and more of it.

Mythonos · 10/20/09, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by rh8452

For snobolds: My guild has affected casters run towards melee and meet halfway, just outside of staggering stomp range. Snobolds are unaffected by AOE or cleaves - however Gormok isn't. So I'll simply switch off him when I have ~5-6s left on diseases, then do IT PS pest HS DS to snobolds to reapply diseases to Gormok himself since I don't use GoD. If the snobold jumps on a melee I'll do the same thing but pop ERW and spam heart strike since the cleave will hit Gormok if I'm targeting the snobold as my primary.

ed: This is in TotGC 25. On 10 snobolds still die too quickly for melee to bother with them if they're on someone at range.

We just have the casters get the snobolds off healers/tanks/other casters. Leave them on melee until the transition phase when the worms come out, then everyone focus and kill those (should only be one or two tops). We're a bit ranged heavy which helps, but you shouldn't have all the melee switch from gormok to the snobolds, especially if he's still up when the worms come out.

rh8452 · 10/21/09, 8:32 AM

Nah, he's dead with about 5-6 seconds before the worms become active, so doing it the way we do it hasn't been an issue, though I agree with the impracticality of melee having to move off and away from Gormok to switch targets. I'm not in a position to have us change our strat, unfortunately, but we're generally walking into Valks 25 with 48-49 attempts left so.

Mr.Tutt · 10/21/09, 8:17 PM

Originally Posted by AtheistGod

The top dps rotation requires 2/2 epidemic. It allows you to have diseases last just over that 20 second rotation in order to re-pest. In a perfect situation in the repeating part of the rotation refreshes should be occurring in the last second of the diseases since you should refresh every 20 seconds with them lasting 21 seconds.

So in regaurds to your comment, "The top dps rotation requires 2/2 epidemic." WHAT IS IT?! lol. I have messed with the GoD in the past and really had no gain on the DPS side; but it's the opposite when I am speced into my blood tanking spec. Only because it gives me more time the focus on other tanking aspects, rather then a TPS/DPS gain. I currently use:
IT-PS-HS-DS-HS-PEST-DUMP(w/RS or DC when needed | DS-HS-DS-HSx4 then
PEST-DS-HS-DS-HSx4 repeat

Everything seems to be lining up fine; but I still see no gain with this glyph or rotation. Is my rotation off, or am I just not getting it

Thanks in advance for the comments. -Cheer

Kaejin · 10/21/09, 8:59 PM

Use a priority system. Strict rotations should be avoided in most cases, or else just used to get a feel for the spec.

Priorities are:
Diseases on the target > Pest if the time left on diseases is less than three seconds > HS > DS > DC

Reapply diseases if you have more procs up than when they were originally applied so you can get stronger ones rolling. You should also use pest early if you need to move away from a boss and diseases would fall off before you get back.

advocate70 · 10/22/09, 4:24 AM

Does anyone have stat weights that are current as of 3.2.2? The ones in the OP are outdated, for example, only T7 and T8 weights are given, and the other stats are probably as out of date as the Tier bonuses are. Zerack would like to include them in his Gear Optimizer, and he has done so for varied Frost and Unholy builds, but the blood thread has not provided any for him to use.

tetracycloide · 10/22/09, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

Pest if the time left on diseases is less than three seconds

I see this thrown around a lot as a 'good' indicator of when Pest should be used but 3 seconds is astronomically high. Unless something else, fight mechanic wise, would prevent you from doing so 1 second left on diseases is probably more than necessary unless MS is over 1000.

Drayerina · 10/22/09, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by advocate70

Does anyone have stat weights that are current as of 3.2.2? The ones in the OP are outdated, for example, only T7 and T8 weights are given, and the other stats are probably as out of date as the Tier bonuses are. Zerack would like to include them in his Gear Optimizer, and he has done so for varied Frost and Unholy builds, but the blood thread has not provided any for him to use.

Kaejin · 10/22/09, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by tetracycloide

I see this thrown around a lot as a 'good' indicator of when Pest should be used but 3 seconds is astronomically high. Unless something else, fight mechanic wise, would prevent you from doing so 1 second left on diseases is probably more than necessary unless MS is over 1000.

Rather than living on the edge and hoping I manage to use pestilence at the exact time I need to use it, using it one GCD or so earlier is a lot less stressful.

Using Pest on the last second can easily come into conflict with the GCD. With 21 second diseases, you can fit in 14 GCDs. However, even a little bit a latency can mess that up a little, not to mention haste lowering the GCD for spells like IT and DC changes things even more. Unless you're focusing mainly on your GCDs, if you want to save Pest for the last second it seems pretty easy to be able to misjudge and only get it off by the skin of your teeth or else not make it in time at all.

So, while I definitely wouldn't argue with you that using it at the last second would be the most optimal way to utilize Runes, it doesn't leave a lot of room for error. Three seconds gives you wiggle room without sacrificing much at all.

tetracycloide · 10/22/09, 12:20 PM

I think the amount that is being sacrificed is where we disagree then because I would disinclined to describe loosing a HS every 12 runes from using Pest that early as not 'much at all.' If you're not loosing a HS every 12 runes then you're not actually casting Pest every time diseases are at 3 secs or less.