I assume you have exact numbers for the T9P4 bonus already or how can you say it won't be worth it?

I'm not giving up CotG or MC, instead I'm taking either 2 points out of KM (this seems to come out as a dps gain, but I'm not sure whether prioritizing KMs on Rime procs would change that) if I have to provide IIT, else I'm just dropping IIT, getting full KM, 2p BCB, DC, and some random utility talents for max dps. (Something like this build would get 2 BCB without sacrificing any dps talent other than IIT, and is giving me the best simulator results out of quite a few deep frost variants, ~7050 dps in a 200ms test using BiS 3.1 gear + 3.2 gems)

@Odii: Yeah, obviously, and that would just push a build with HB even further ahead than what the simulations are showing.

Do we wanna get a grab on slow weapons?
Atm ive got [Void Sabre] and [Remorse]

I dont wanna equip one of those in offhand?

You do not want to equip these at all, neither MH nor OH. Slow/Slow is all the way to go.

I was actually wondering about this part before.

Slow weapons are better if you have the choice, its fairly obvious.

Slow weapons give slightly more strike damage, and a higher KM uptime (due to ppm mechanics).
Fast weapons dont really give anything unless you consider BCB in which case they have a slightly higher BCB damage.

However when you DON'T have the choice, does a higher DPS fast weapon not beat a lower DPS slow weapon ?

All the DK attacks are normalized, in other words. The damage you gain on strikes from slow weapons compared to fast weapons is ONLY the difference in base damage from the weapon itself.
Comparing [Void Sabre] with [Malice] for example and the damage difference is about 230 damage. On an offhand that difference is half.

I have the feeling that if the choice is between a 160 dps slow 1h and a 180 dps fast 1h, the latter is better.

Again when you can get slow, definitely get it. The strike damage increase (though small does add up fast), and the higher KM proc rate (and all other PPM mechanics for that matter) certainly has benefit too.

I'm wondering though, do DPS and stats outbenefit speed when the upgrade is sufficient ?
An example is if you have [Silent Crusader] and [Remorse] drops. Does 20 dps outbenefit the loss of speed. Or how about [Razorscale Talon] vs [Remorse] ?

The reason im posting this is because back with the 32/38 specs people were screaming that you HAD TO HAVE slow weapons because of the amount of strikes you'd do. However several people (one of which was me) simply calculated that speed really isn't that much of an impact due to normalization.

Now of course the new duel wield is different, from what i see there are a lot more strikes and with the offhand striking too now, its a whole new ballpark. It could very well be that speed > all (to a certain degree of course)

All I wanted to say is that if you have the chance you should definitely go for Slow/Slow since he asked ("I dont wanna equip one of those in offhand?"). I cannot judge if a fast 180 DPS weapon would be outperforming a slow 160 DPS weapon, since I havn't compared these before (it likely would I guess, but I won't recommend it as I lack definite results).

Edit:
I will edit this post later today again and post what I got. I'll be comparing Malice/Razorscale Talon vs. Malice/Remorse.

Awesome, thanks for the test.

I'll definitely try to get slow/slow and so should anyone. But the first thing i noticed when the ToT was announced (and thus the rebirth of DW builds) was that people started saying:
"Speed > Stats > DPS"

Without any decent tests or simulator to back up that statement.

I mean its obvious that slower weapons are a lot better, but so is higher dps. I remember back in 3.0 that the dps upgrade you'd get from switching from anything to Betrayer (2H axe from KT) would result in a massive dps increase simply because of the high dps.

1 hander weapons are a completely different world.

Betrayer was such a good upgrade because you were moving from 3.5 speed or 3.6 speed weapons with lower dps to a 3.5 weapon with higher dps. Even if it was 0.1 sec faster, it had more instant damage due to the dps conversion

So, a 222 dps weapon with a swingspeed of 3.5 may actually have more strike damage than a 213 dps 3.6 speed one. If anything Betrayer's weakness was the AP instead of Str.

Now looking at 1h weapons, we go from 2.7/2.6 speed weapons to 1.6/1.5 ones. The instant damage difference is massive and in this case it very well may be that the (slightly) lower dps weapon with a 2.6 speed is better that the (slightly) higher dps weapon with a 1.5 speed because the little gain on strikes the 2.6 speed weapon nets you is quite higher than the actual white damage dps difference.

There is a breaking point where Speed>DPS doesn't count anymore, but that's something we have to discover through testing once we can make builds and test them properly. The main reason why BoH was so much better than anything else was because all the KT loot was a tier higher than the rest of Naxxramas. BoH had roughly 20 more dps than all the other twohanders in the instance. Also, I can't recall any weapon in Naxxramas having 3.6 speed, so the speed difference would be none, or 0.1. I doubt you'll find any onehanders that are 2.4.

So yeah, the Slow>fast rule doesn't make Malice (2.5) crap for example, it's still a decent onehander. But you shouldn't use 1.x weapons under any circumstance.

[The Jawbone] was the only one i think.

Wrong; BCB is a normalized attack (at least it was the last time I checked) meaning that youl will end up getting slightly more damage from it while using a fast weapon. However, this increase in negligible, especially when compared with the damage loss you will suffer on your strikes.