If i have time one of these days ill go try out a scaling gearset. Maybe take the current frost 2H BiS items and try something.
Given the percentage of physical damage dealt in a 3/51/17 or slight variant build it might be more beneficial to test in current BiS Blood gear, because with the increase in percentage of physical strikes making up our damage breakdown I suspect ArP to be a much more desirable stat.
...So it looks like IT/HB/Disease glyphs are left to be compared for the 3rd slot for Frost DW.
...
Regarding this question: I did some testing last night on the PTR in Naxx and OS to try and get some sense of how the disease glyph plays in less optimal scenarios (not a sim or pounding on a dummy). It was virtually impossible to get back to pestilence in my rotation before my diseases were expired in almost every case. And that is with the additional 6 seconds of uptime. The timing of it is such that just using two rune dumps at the end (or mixed in) per cycle was enough to make it insanely tight, and once any sort of movement was added into the equation, it became impossible.
I did not try Unholy presence because i didn't feel like I had enough attacks to make up for the loss of 15%, I would have just eneded up with refreshed diseases and lots of dead space.
Regarding this question: I did some testing last night on the PTR in Naxx and OS to try and get some sense of how the disease glyph plays in less optimal scenarios (not a sim or pounding on a dummy). It was virtually impossible to get back to pestilence in my rotation before my diseases were expired in almost every case. And that is with the additional 6 seconds of uptime. The timing of it is such that just using two rune dumps at the end (or mixed in) per cycle was enough to make it insanely tight, and once any sort of movement was added into the equation, it became impossible.
I did not try Unholy presence because i didn't feel like I had enough attacks to make up for the loss of 15%, I would have just eneded up with refreshed diseases and lots of dead space.
Yea this is where theroycrafting gets slapped in the face by practical/technical hinderances.
In theory 21 seconds should be plenty to keep pestilenced diseases up, but if it fails due to said hinderances you lose a lot of dps.
Has anyone actually simmed 0/17/54 with the 3.2 changes? I just ran it through quick and it seems to be within 50 DPS of 3/51/17. That's without any effort put into tweaking things.
Has anyone actually simmed 0/17/54 with the 3.2 changes? I just ran it through quick and it seems to be within 50 DPS of 3/51/17. That's without any effort put into tweaking things.
Check about 2-3 pages back, we simmed unholy DW too (not sure if that was only 13/58 or also 17/54). It comes slightly ahead of frost DW at the moment i think, but unholy has some random factors (read: ghoul) on which it is dependant which make it slightly more vulnerable to irregular fights (movement / big aoe magic attacks / certain boss buffs).
Ok I'm gonna run a frost DW build with BiS blood gear from the BiS thread, im simply gonna use exactly those stats with 2x 2.6 weapons.
EDIT: Ok there is a new version with a lot of positive tweaks for frost DW and some adjustments for unholy DW (a few errors in their benefit) i'm gonna use default setstat2 and run a few specs through a fast test again and get some numbers going.
There is currently a bug with the simulator where it produces way too high DPS numbers (20k and above).
It seems the bug is a linear issue though as it seems to still keep dps ratio's reasonably intact.
Therefor i can not draw conclusions, but it seems that with the fixes to the simulator, where "frost getts buffed and unholy gets nerfed":
- ToT fixes
- Ability to proc rime from both hands
- Ability to prioritize KM Rime
- Unholy Blight reduced from 30% to 20% like on PTR.
It seems with those tweaks, frost DW is pulling ahead now. I can not say how much, but it certainly looks that way. I'm gonna wait for a fixed version and then post some results.
[Edit] Found the problem myself, setstat2 has a default armor penetration rating of 3000. Removing a zero fixes it again.
Regarding this question: I did some testing last night on the PTR in Naxx and OS to try and get some sense of how the disease glyph plays in less optimal scenarios (not a sim or pounding on a dummy). It was virtually impossible to get back to pestilence in my rotation before my diseases were expired in almost every case. And that is with the additional 6 seconds of uptime.
I also did testing within raids on the PTR with glyph of disease and found it much better actually. Almost everything in current content is predictable and I found that due to movement or another factor I could just Pest before my RP dump, then move to RP dump because my FU runes are still waiting to come back up. You can also simply use a Death rune to refresh diseases while moving away from the boss. This isn't optimal of course, but its better than diseases falling off or having to reapply them. Another similar example would be using Death Coil at range while running back to the boss (rather than wait to use FS). Its not optimal, but better than the alternative. In most situations I find it to be more versatile and am loving the rotation.
There is currently a bug with the simulator where it produces way too high DPS numbers (20k and above).
It seems the bug is a linear issue though as it seems to still keep dps ratio's reasonably intact.
Therefor i can not draw conclusions, but it seems that with the fixes to the simulator, where "frost getts buffed and unholy gets nerfed":
- ToT fixes
- Ability to proc rime from both hands
- Ability to prioritize KM Rime
- Unholy Blight reduced from 30% to 20% like on PTR.
It seems with those tweaks, frost DW is pulling ahead now. I can not say how much, but it certainly looks that way. I'm gonna wait for a fixed version and then post some results.
[Edit] Found the problem myself, setstat2 has a default armor penetration rating of 3000. Removing a zero fixes it again.
KM Rime really makes a big difference. The problem with using the rime proc in the sim was that Rime, when used semi randomly, was a dps loss over Frost Strike. But not using Rime just cheats you out of damage as you are short on RP to fill ally your global cooldowns. But KM Rime lets you find a nice happy place, where rime is used, but not so much as to negatively impact damage. Before I could get better damage from a rotation that I know was sub optimal then any priority by completely ignoring rime and focussing on good structure for FS usage. Not the case when you can prioritize KM Rime, though I imagine if I could prioritize KM Rime in the RP dump slots in my rotation, using the rotation would pull ahead.
One thing my Glyph of Howling Blast analysis didnt look at was KM Rime, and how the use of Rime procs with KM effects damage. So, even if its impractical terms not too complicated to use (and I haven't decided if it is or isn't at this stage), it may do so little extra damage that its not worth the trouble.
Glyph of Disease is clearly the best glyph choice if you can execute it in an actual encounter and you don't need to provide IIT, but if those things arent in your favor, the third glyph is a fairly minor influence on your overall dps. Clearly there is probably a best answer, but what that answer is probably isnt going to effect your DPS so much that other people could notice it.
I did some short tests on them (50 hours), and the numbers were relatively close:
Spec
DPS
00-53-18
7254
01-52-18
7214
03-51-17
7184
03-52-16
7201
03-53-15 (KM)
7213
03-53-15 (UA)
7217
Personally i'm under the impression that with intelligent play you can get most out of a spec that does include UA, so i'm gonna discard the others as the sim shows no real gain anyway.
Since 53-18 seems to hold the best cards in the quick test, (most likely caused due to a better implementation of both rime and KM in the simulator as well as some ToT fixes) I'm gonna cross reference that one with the 17/54 unholy spec.
DPS 7257
Total Damage 13063332080 in 500 h
Threat Per Second 5710
Generated in 318s
Template :DW-00-53-18.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Templates\DW-00-53-18.xml)
Priority :Frost.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Priority\Frost.xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :Awareness
RuneForge :FallenCrusader / Razorice
Pet Calculation :True
DPS 6262
Total Damage 11271528581 in 500 h
Threat Per Second 4244
Generated in 595s
Template :DW-00-53-18.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Templates\DW-00-53-18.xml)
Priority :DualUnholy.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Priority\DualUnho ly.xml)
Presence :Unholy
Sigil of :VengefulHeart
RuneForge :FallenCrusader / FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True
Above Unholy simulation has the wrong glyphs. Actual dps should be 6900
---------------
Seems frost pulls ahead somewhat now, however my rotation might have been off on unholy (diseases > DC > IT > GF > BS > PS), but i doubt it makes that huge a gap.
TODO (when i have time, which might be tonight if the raid is canceled):
- Compare some glyphs
- Check the specs at BiS blood gear stats
- Compare point for point dps of the following talents with BiS blood gear: Subversion / KM / BCB.
Have you guys even thought of using Night of the Dead instead of Subversion and running Glyph of the Ghoul as your third glyph? Having a 30sec cooldown on Risen Ghoul gives him a very high uptime and he's fully buffed from talents/glyphs minus raid buffs, so should do more damage than just some crit on Blood Strike and Obliterate.
There is currently a bug with the simulator where it produces way too high DPS numbers (20k and above).
It seems the bug is a linear issue though as it seems to still keep dps ratio's reasonably intact.
Therefor i can not draw conclusions, but it seems that with the fixes to the simulator, where "frost getts buffed and unholy gets nerfed":
- ToT fixes
- Ability to proc rime from both hands
- Ability to prioritize KM Rime
- Unholy Blight reduced from 30% to 20% like on PTR.
It seems with those tweaks, frost DW is pulling ahead now. I can not say how much, but it certainly looks that way. I'm gonna wait for a fixed version and then post some results.
[Edit] Found the problem myself, setstat2 has a default armor penetration rating of 3000. Removing a zero fixes it again.
So with the KM Rime support what was your priority, exactly?
Diseases>KM Rime>KM FS>OB>BS>FS?
@Foxxx2405: other then the spec xml that is listed on your unholy test (not a big deal, I see UB in there), wandering plague damage is conspicuous in its absence on that parse.
@Kistrel: A couple quick simulations indicate that its maybe 20 extra dps over no glyph at all, with the points in subversion instead going to Night of the Dead. Btw, its a 90 second cooldown, so uptime is only 40%. The talent to make it permanent lowers it another 60 seconds. Considering that the Ghoul can still be offed early, I dont think its a productive way to go.
Regarding this question: I did some testing last night on the PTR in Naxx and OS to try and get some sense of how the disease glyph plays in less optimal scenarios (not a sim or pounding on a dummy). It was virtually impossible to get back to pestilence in my rotation before my diseases were expired in almost every case. And that is with the additional 6 seconds of uptime. The timing of it is such that just using two rune dumps at the end (or mixed in) per cycle was enough to make it insanely tight, and once any sort of movement was added into the equation, it became impossible.
I did not try Unholy presence because i didn't feel like I had enough attacks to make up for the loss of 15%, I would have just eneded up with refreshed diseases and lots of dead space.
You could however change BS to another Pest (Pest->Pest for the blood runes, pest doesn't clip the disease anyway). This would give you another 1.5 seconds to cast the first pestilence for refreshing the diseases, and at least mathematically it still comes out ahead of the BS glyph (it also doesn't require the slow effect on your target, and for a stationary patchwerk-style fight you would probably be able to use the original BS->Pest for your blood runes)
The RP generation isn't huge and i think the sim bleeds RP in between runes anyway.
@Odii
I used the spec that was given on the front page, it doesn't include WP.
Sec I'll run a 13/58 spec with a unholy rotation (I believe that's what a 13/58 spec uses right ? Same as 2H unholy ?)
EDIT:
Ability
Total
%
Landed
Hit%
Crit%
Miss%
Average
ScourgeStrike
1381383470
12
396376
54
45
0
3485
PlagueStrike
103859668
0
45447
54
45
0
2285
IcyTouch
130479703
1
45422
66
32
0
2872
BloodStrike
348998060
3
173561
60
39
0
2010
DeathCoil
1309116015
11
274394
66
32
0
4770
UB
261868459
2
274394
100
0
0
954
FrostFever
681872227
6
536254
100
0
0
1271
BloodPlague
670285840
5
526984
100
0
0
1271
Necrosis
584376400
5
1516800
100
0
0
385
BloodCakedBlade
425216239
3
455905
100
0
0
932
WanderingPlague
462727108
4
363865
99
0
0
1271
MainHand
1853866705
16
757993
44
39
15
2445
OffHand
1069140393
9
758807
44
39
15
1408
Ghoul
1458967452
12
1618832
86
13
0
901
Gargoyle
570026486
5
164367
86
12
0
3468
DPS 6285
Total Damage 11312184225 in 500 h
Threat Per Second 4179
Generated in 317s
Template :DW-00-13-58.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Templates\DW-00-13-58.xml)
Priority :Unholy.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Priority\Unholy.xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :Awareness
RuneForge :FallenCrusader / FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True Above spec / simulation is of no importance as this rotation / spec is not used, due to a weak SS in 3.2
Edit 2:
For people who want to know how i make those tables fast:
I don't have word so i use wordpad, but i guess the same works.
1. Copy the text from the sim, and paste it in your text processor (make sure you keep text only and not have it auto paste in a table (You can do this in wordpad by using Edit -> Paste Special -> unformatted text ; in Word you can edit it to match destination after you paste it)
2. Use the Replace function (under edit) and replace all spaces (simply put a space) with a | (that is shift + \ for me, thats not a small L or a capital I by the way)
3. Press and hold Ctrl + Z (undo) until you got all spaces back on the lower section (the part you dont want in the table)
This works for wordpad, not sure about word. If it doesn't work you could try selecting the table section before you use replace.
4. Remove all double |
These tend to be placed at the end of each line on the table section as there are double spaces there
5. Remove all | signs in the ability name that contain spaces, either replace them with a space manually or just delete them (thats what i do, hence why my table has no spaces between abilities).
6. Copy and paste to EJ, select the table part and select the table icon (second last, just before the wowhead icon)
7. Bold the DPS part for easy to spot stuff for people who just don't give about the rest.
This is the way I do it, i can turn the sim data into table format in about 30 seconds this way.
You could however change BS to another Pest (Pest->Pest for the blood runes, pest doesn't clip the disease anyway). This would give you another 1.5 seconds to cast the first pestilence for refreshing the diseases, and at least mathematically it still comes out ahead of the BS glyph (it also doesn't require the slow effect on your target, and for a stationary patchwerk-style fight you would probably be able to use the original BS->Pest for your blood runes)
So that would be two cd's used for non-damaging events? WRT to this and the earlier post where there was a suggestion of how to tweak the rotation around using pestilence, my perspective is that I want a clean rotation that can be executed while dodging fire, moving behind the target, tabbing to next target (basically which one do I need to nurse the least by being glued to ability cd's and disease timers) all while doing as close to optimal dps as possible. Long story short, I don't see the compelling argument for pestilence improving my dps all that much using it once every 2 cycles. I can't believe it would be an improvement used twice. Using IT and PS increase my odds of keeping diseases up and do it at what seems to be a very low cost. Given a choice, I'll take the secure, flexible, repeatable rotation every time (and it/ps seems to be that rotation).
0/18/53 uses blood presence, you have it listed as unholy. Could this be why your sim numbers for it are really low? This build is not seeing any major nerfs from live to PTR, and it sims higher than 6200ish with live data. (Also I've used it and achieved higher dps than 6200 for single target fights in random ulduar gear)
Might want to check again, unless you accidently posted unholy and did actually sim in blood.
Edit- Something might be messed up, you have on post #609 unholy presence, and on post #614 blood presence. I don't think the damage difference could be so small between blood and unholy presence for this spec. Like 2h unholy, this spec actually seems to have extra GCD's even with blood. I can't imagine there being no gain between unholy-blood.
0/18/53 uses blood presence, you have it listed as unholy. Could this be why your sim numbers for it are really low? This build is not seeing any major nerfs from live to PTR, and it sims higher than 6200ish with live data. (Also I've used it and achieved higher dps than 6200 for single target fights in random ulduar gear)
Might want to check again, unless you accidently posted unholy and did actually sim in blood.
Edit- Something might be messed up, you have on post #609 unholy presence, and on post #614 blood presence. I don't think the damage difference could be so small between blood and unholy presence for this spec. Like 2h unholy, this spec actually seems to have extra GCD's even with blood. I can't imagine there being no gain between unholy-blood.
The reason i used unholy presence was mainly for the fact that i assumed that 17/54 was still the build in which you spam DCs as much as possible. (Pretty much as it is on live).
I kinda adjusted the rotation to mirror that as well.
The second one is pretty much the same rotation as 2H unholy currently uses (priority: Diseases > Scourge Strike > Blood Strike > Death Coil), hence why i used BP on that one.
Either way, with the current sim its neigh impossible to get unholy DW anywhere close to frost DW. But then again i know very little about unholy DW specs, so if anyone else comes up with a number closer to 7k dps let me know what you used.
Keep in mind that i used 2 different specs.
The first one is 00-17-54 as found on the front page. IT spam + DC spam for loads of attacks, needs unholy presence.
The second one is: 00-13-58 which is basically a DW version of the 2H unholy spec.
The reason there is no gain is because DC spam in UP with the first build does about the same dps as the SS centered build in BP.
Also the reason DPS dropped that hard is because the sim was still using 30% UB, while it is 20% on PTR at the moment.
It could be that something is off though, my settings were as follow for most unholy tests:
EDIT: It seems either the template output is bugged out (it keeps saying 58/13 spec used) OR The sim actually changes some things while running.
What i sometimes do is prepare the next simulation while 1 is running. If kahories sim actually updates "on the fly", that might skew some results.
EDIT: Got 6311 dps out of the 17/54 build using these settings, so i guess its just a bug in the output not the actual simulation.
This is using the newest simulator. Included all information so you can see the difference between the old and new simulation. If Frost is getting 7.2k, this would indicate it's passed my build as top DPS.
When the simulation was done, did you use Statset2 and adjust the ArP to 300 and the AP to 500?
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.
My AP was actually set at 600 since that's the standard.
ArP was at 300 indeed.
Also note i didn't check the 18/53 obliterate unholy build. So that's probably why it seems unholy lost a lot.
I'll run a test with my numbers, but that spec and rotation. Result coming up in 5 minutes.
Ability
Total
%
Landed
Hit%
Crit%
Miss%
Average
Obliterate
1944407579
15
357397
57
42
0
5440
PlagueStrike
162518751
1
89357
50
49
0
1818
IcyTouch
257713899
2
89353
66
32
0
2884
BloodStrike
369274121
2
178698
57
42
0
2066
DeathCoil
1549075928
12
340757
66
32
0
4545
UB
309861822
2
340757
100
0
0
909
FrostFever
692523698
5
544290
100
0
0
1272
BloodPlague
692357745
5
543631
100
0
0
1273
Necrosis
600032012
4
1516518
100
0
0
395
BloodCakedBlade
426518528
3
455377
100
0
0
936
WanderingPlague
585416092
4
459855
99
0
0
1273
MainHand
1904362003
15
758461
41
42
15
2510
OffHand
1097098207
8
758057
41
42
15
1447
Ghoul
1458706263
11
1618832
87
12
0
901
Gargoyle
568603398
4
164108
86
12
0
3464
DPS 7010
Total Damage 12618470046 in 500 h
Threat Per Second 4747
Generated in 337s
Template W-00-18-53.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Templates\DW-00-18-53.xml)
Priority :Unholy-Oblit.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Priority\Unholy-Oblit.xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :Awareness
RuneForge :FallenCrusader / FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True
Sec I'll run a 13/58 spec with a unholy rotation (I believe that's what a 13/58 spec uses right ? Same as 2H unholy ?)
If I recall, the 13/58 spec is dead with the SS nerf. The more traditional Unholy DW build is 18/53 which uses Obliterate in place of SS. Other than that, it's exactly the same rotation.
Here's a sim of 17/54 using a priority of (BP>FF)>DC>IT>BS>GF>PS
Ability
Total
%
Landed
Hit%
Crit%
Miss%
Average
PlagueStrike
293201200
2
185840
52
47
0
1577
IcyTouch
1478748341
11
590967
66
32
0
2502
BloodStrike
267513413
2
150912
58
41
0
1772
DeathCoil
2670337062
21
484901
66
32
0
5506
UB
534112265
4
484901
100
0
0
1101
FrostFever
306287993
2
277287
100
0
0
1104
BloodPlague
553290822
4
500536
100
0
0
1105
Necrosis
577071763
4
1694185
100
0
0
340
BloodCakedBlade
413962765
3
508173
100
0
0
814
MainHand
1830917047
14
846880
42
41
15
2161
OffHand
1055589485
8
847305
42
41
15
1245
Ghoul
1755430968
14
1949243
87
12
0
900
Gargoyle
692062416
5
199805
86
12
0
3463
DPS 6905
Total Damage 12428525540 in 500 h
Threat Per Second 4492
Generated in 381s
Template :0-17-54 Unholy DW.xml(C:\Documents and Settings\arjun\My Documents\DKSimulator0.9.6\Templates\0-17-54 Unholy DW.xml)
Priority :0-17-54.xml(C:\Documents and Settings\arjun\My Documents\DKSimulator0.9.6\Priority\0-17-54.xml)
Presence :Unholy
Sigil of :VengefulHeart
RuneForge :FallenCrusader / FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation :True
Seems perfectly competitive. Also, the third glyph slot doesn't appear to matter, the difference between UB and the Ghoul is something like 20 dps on the sim, and so UB will take priority since any imperfect uptime of the ghoul will break this parity.
Ah i notice what was so way off with my previous 17/54 DC spam build, I took another template as base but forgot to change glyphs. I think glyph of scourge strike doesn't really help on that spec
A new 500 hour test gave me 6903 dps
So that should give this comparison give or take:
Spec
DPS
17-54
6900
18-53
7050
53-18
7250
That is all within a 5% margin. Not bad, guess you can go with what you like best.
That is all within a 5% margin. Not bad, guess you can go with what you like best.
I think this is pretty accurate, with numbers so close its obviously going to come down to which spec you actually have better gear for. I don't know about other people, but I'm quite happy to see so many competitive specs.
-Moving forward-
There are a few factors that are going to effect the above, obviously actual performance can be different than simulator data for various reasons, mostly movement and fight specific mechanics.
Speaking from a lot of experiance with 17/54, if the choice between ghoul and UB glyphs is only 20 dps, I would take UB every time. Now, with a bit of proper pet management, you can easily keep him alive on most fights. I had about a 75% uptime on him during mimiron hardmode last night, which is probably the worst pet fight out there. That said, the reason UB is going to be the better choice is Movement.
Movement - a part of most every boss fight. One strong factor the sim simply can't simulate. Both unholy specs are going to lose some slight damage via ghoul deaths. (Less the better you are with pet management.) However, we might want to keep in mind that both unholy specs have advantages during movement.
-Stronger diseases for both specs, meaning more of their damage can be done from range.
-Death coil being ranged is a large advantage during movement.
-Ghoul and Gargoyle can often times continue to do damage on most movement fights.
-UB will continue to tick when you are running.
-Specifically for 17/54, two of the top three damage abilities can be performed at range.
In the end, it might be so close that everyone can just play the spec they desire, but we are going to have to see how movement effects things going forward.
Now here's something interesting. Taking stat set 2, and modifying it to use a 2H, and trying both the current 2H unholy build for 3.2 (0/13/58, obliterate) and the 2H blood build (same as live, 51/0/20), with a 244.6 dps weapon, My results are as follows:
Spec
DPS
51/0/20
6424
0/13/58
6753
No comparison using those stats, the dual wield builds are better. Are there any other 2H specs that are floating around? A standard Scourge Strike based Unholy build falls between those two. I'll post my numbers on that as well if people would like. I'm running the EP calculations right now for the 17/54 build and I'll post that once I get a chance. I'm running one set of stats at the low end (full t7), and once again at the high end (the stat set 2). That way there's some numbers for people who aren't at full t8.5 to work with. Eventually, I'll do the same for all three dual wield builds, and so scaling can be determined.
-I wouldn't bother trying to come up with anything in regards to two handed builds, there are far better places to discuss their issues. I know its fun to look at DW vs 2H, but in the end its not really a valuable use of space in this thread.
-For statweights, any work on finding them for the various builds is appreciated. For 0/17/54, I'm thinking not enough has changed to make a massive difference from 3.1. The statweights for it are located in the unholy DW thread, if you want to see how close your numbers look to the old set. I can see how crit might be slightly more valuable, as a crit DC will do more damage via UB as well as the crit itself.
-I wouldn't bother trying to come up with anything in regards to two handed builds, there are far better places to discuss their issues. I know its fun to look at DW vs 2H, but in the end its not really a valuable use of space in this thread.
It certainly needs to be discussed somewhere; if the DW specs are flat out superior, I'd argue that's relatively important to know.
But I can see how that would clog up the thread, when right now - especially if the patch comes out sooner than anticipated (not what Blizzard is known for) - we really need to decide on the best specs and then look at EP and see which is most viable given the available gear.
07/28/09, 11:03 AM
W-00-18-53.xml(C:\Downloads\Games\WoW\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.6\Templates\DW-00-18-53.xml) 
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