Looks like BS changes have been reverted back to the original amount. This make BS glyph pretty bad now compare to the others I believe.

So it looks like IT/HB/Disease glyphs are left to be compared for the 3rd slot for Frost DW.

I think IT would be the best unless disease is changed to refresh IIT. HB seems like it would be a confusing one to work in way Odii has it. Disease probably is the best for personal dps, but is a pretty big raid buff loss.

Yea my rotation was suboptimal, and i didnt really have time to improve on it.

You could be right about the unholy build in that regard. I personally think its really bad design by blizzard when obliterate does more damage because of a 3th disease then because you spec into frost, but maybe thats just me.
I'm in a bit of a divide at the moment, because i personally don't know what i should chose if unholy turns out to be just as good or better for DW.
On one side I was really looking forward to the dual strikes (ToT), not to mention my rogues already worship me for the possibility i'll provide them with 20% haste next patch.
On the other side, my favorite tree is still unholy. I like the ghoul (although he's a liability in a lot of fights), and the 13% magic damage buff would probably be more beneficial for my guild runs (we mostly do 10 man hard modes), than the haste buff. Yet i feel like its the bastard child of dual wield specs, because it relies on, i'd almost say gimmicks. You skip Scourge Strike, and using a 1H for all your strikes just feels counter intuitive, like you would do twice as good with a 2H. And yet, it works somehow.

What i worry about for the 18/53 (17/54 not sure, there is no such thing as 18/54 but i guess you'd want 3/3 annihilation). Is that it suffers from some scaling issues. But we'll have to find out about that.

Obliterate doesn't do more with a third disease, its just more damage in a build that gets damage from more sources than just about anything. 2/51/18 isnt far behind 18/54, its only about 200-300 dps in the sim, thats pennies when you take it to a raid. However, when you consider that its going to lose 10% of its damage when the pet dies 2/51/18 looks even better. I think if the sim randomly killed off your perma ghoul we would see more realistic numbers and 2/51/18 pulling ahead of it. Then you have to consider that 2/51/18 brings a rarer raid buff than 13% spell damage, 2/51/18 looks even prettier. 2/51/18 has better AOE now that UB is single target. I think they are just about equal but i rather have a commando build ready to handle any situation and brings it all to the table than the 18/54 that specializes in single targets. Ill most likely take vacations from frost to visit unholy though.

Good points.

I was planning on running some more simulator tests, but i'd really like someone to put together a gearset, or values for kahories simulator. I'm currently geared for 2H unholy with low ArP and high haste, so i don't have anything good to draw from at the moment.

About that frost spec though. You can not put 51 points in frost without skipping Unbreakable Armor. I'm personally not a huge fan of dps cooldowns like that because i always pop them at the wrong moments or forget them, but technically that should be a better point invested than any of the other things. That would make for a 1/52/18 build then though.

I'll run some tests, should have some results in a few minutes.

Ok well i ran some new tests, and the best result i got was:

Ability	Total	%	Landed	Hit%	Crit%	Miss%	Average
Obliterate	1710496807	27	337120	42	57	0	5073
Plague Strike	118233094	1	86790	53	46	0	1362
Icy Touch	153221035	2	43390	45	53	0	3531
Frost Strike	1293131362	20	341994	46	53	0	3781
Howling Blast	107769627	1	15976	61	37	0	6745
Blood Strike	365988840	5	161838	57	42	0	2261
Frost Fever	228658236	3	272663	100	0	0	838
Blood Plague	217344831	3	272134	100	0	0	798
Necrosis	281664321	4	785640	100	0	0	358
Blood Caked Blade	169811209	2	235892	100	0	0	719
Main Hand	893460067	14	392854	44	39	15	2274
Off Hand	514908822	8	392786	44	40	15	1310
Ghoul	132041581	2	176928	87	12	0	746
Raz	17353708	0	392786	100	0	0	44

DPS 6893
Total Damage 6204083540 in 250 h
Threat Per Second 4978
Generated in 121s
Template :1-52-18.xml(C:\downloads\games\wow\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.5\Templates\1-52-18.xml)
Priority :DW-Frost.xml(C:\downloads\games\wow\DKSimulator\DKSimulator0.9.5\Priority\DW-Frost.xml)
Presence :Blood
Sigil of :Awareness
RuneForge :FallenCrusader / Razorice
Pet Calculation :True

Now i have to let you know that the other 2 builds i tested (2/51/18 and 53/18) were extremely close (within 10 dps). So as far as i can see the choice between subversion and KM is nearly equal.
The problem is, by using just this gearset you don't have an idea of the scaling. And that might have a big impact.

My thought as well, although you can macro it with blood tap. But even then i sometimes get an odd rotation because apparently i never know when to use the BT+UA macro. (Before you used the blood runes ? After you used the blood runes ? etc)

I do however love a cooldown like that when you want it most. Hearth phase on XT, when Razorscale lands. So if you get the macro right and you pop it at the right time it should out benefit any of the other options really.

Use the macro between the two blood runes. That works for me.

This is what I do as 2H Unholy for working Ghoul Frenzy. Use GF on the first D rune that is activating from my two Blood Strikes, then when the other D rune comes up, hit BT and SS both D runes off. My BT also has the /cancelaura bound to it, so I can hit it again after the SS so the BT does not further interfere with the rotation. This basically allows you to use it without interrupting your rune CDs at all (because you would have been waiting for the second D to come up to SS them off anyway, so you have 1 GCD to do this between D runes).

Just to expand on the Blood Tap thing a little, it's best to do it when your FU runes are down, so that your pairs stay lined up correctly. So initially, you should have BBffuu.

Use Blood Strike (leaves you with bBffuu).
Use Blood Tap (DDffuu).
Use UA (dDffuu).
Use Blood Strike (ddffuu).

Blood Tap and UA are both off the GCD, so when done properly the net effect is you get UA without interrupting your rotation. Both of your blood runes will come back up as death, but once you use them on obliterate they will be refreshing as db (because the blood tap buff is still up). At that point, you want to /cancelaura Blood Tap so that you have bb and they stay in sync as they come back up.

And since blood tap has half the CD of UA, you can trade a BS for an Ob every other minute with BS->BT->Ob->cancelaura in place of BS->BS. This isn't really specific to frost DW, but is definitely worth knowing. I'm not sure how exactly UA is handled in the sims either, but I think this is the ideal way to use it.

My math on the Glyph of Howling Blast was off. I was overusing Icy Touch and underusing Blood Strike. I also looked at using HB every time rime procs, replacing either frost strike or the BS/IT spot. What I found in this scenario was that GoHB was worth about 105dps with no outside sources of RP, about 10dps better then Glyph of Blood Strike would be. Without having to use it to replace FS for RP purposes, the glyph was worth 150ish DPS.

Edit:

The breakdown of abilities used while saving HBs for the IT/BS/HB slot:

Ability	% used	RP+ in XX	RP Balance
Icy Touch	17.9	2.69	.179
Blood Strike	34.3	3.43	-1.372
Howling Blast	47.8	2.39	-4.302
Totals	100	8.51	-5.495

The breakdown of abilities used while using one OBs Rime procs to replace FS, and the other in the IT/BS/HB slot:

Ability	% used	RP+ in XX	RP Balance
Icy Touch	30.3	4.54	2.99
Blood Strike	41.9	4.19	2.04
Howling Blast	27.7	1.39	-.03
Totals	100	10.12	5.00

To have a 0 RP gain/loss, you need to use the upper decision making process 47.68% of the time, and the lower decision making process 52.32% of the time.

With the following values for average damage (roundish numbers similar to a recent stat set 2 simulator run):

Ability	Avg.
Icy Touch	3500
Blood Strike	3950
Howling Blast	7000
Frost Strike	7550

The top ability usage breakdown generates 1602 extra damage per 10 (160dps) over no 3rd glyph, and the bottom 782 extra damage (taking a largish hit when Howling Blast has to be used instead of Frost Strike. Using the % usage to maintain 0 RP for each approach, the average damage per 10 increase is 1173. In contrast blood strike would yield 790 extra damage per 10 seconds

I actually bind mine to BT itself, though I do not macro UA (or GF when UH) onto that button. It will BT on the first press, and pressing it a second time will perform the /cancelaura.