@dr_allcom3

Skada is nice and all but it doesn't seem to be very accurate compared to recount. Both on my rogue and DK using current fight options, Skada doesn't record all my damage and hits sometimes so it will be a couple thousand less damage than recount(usually seems to miss the starter hits for some reason). Skada also seems to calc dps alot different than recount, it usually shows 500-1k DPS more than recount for some reason.

I actually find Frost has alot of AoE damage. Threat issues isn't bad if you have subversion. In AoE you may actually use HB instead of OB sometimes, and BB.

I just got the 1H sword from Freya hard mode 10man and was wondering which talent spec is the best to check if the DPS is better than blood

Thanks, cya

@ Dazzel

I use a mod called Power Aura's to show if I have KM or Rime procced, and it works great for me. Can customize it for a ton of other things too.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't AP scale better than crit rating in a spec such as this that favors big crits by design through talents increasing obliterates crit to the roof? Then again I'd welcome the advice of anyone simulatiing it since I suspect it's a lot related to what blizzard provides as crit and strength enchants and gemming to compare.

ATTN: Darkside

I think it is you who always posts those nice stat tables that show stat priorities. Do you have one for the 3.2 DW spec? Im using a 1/51/18 spec but im guessing it will apply to all x/51/x variations.

Here's something that I don't believe anyone has pointed out yet: when diseases are refreshed by Glyph of Disease, they retain the attributes/stat bonuses they got when originally applied. This means that if you cast diseases with Greatness/UA/etc. up, they'll keep the increases damage from those modifiers for the entire fight, assuming you continue to refresh them with the glyph. This is a substantial dps boost; with my trinket procs alone, I was able to increase disease damage by 200+ on a dummy and this will only increase in a raid setting. I'm not yet sure if they respond this way to debuffs placed on targets i.e. if diseases applied to Icehowl during his stun keep the 50% bonus once the damage buff has expired, but plan on doing some testing later in the week.

@wizkhalifa: I've got a lot of spare time this weekend, I'll try and take a look at it.

I thought about that as well, though it seems to me like it would just be another thing to pile on to our already full plate of things to watch for and worry about, specially depending on the boss.

And if diseases do manage to fall off, be it from movement, stun, whatever, are you going to sit there and wait for buffs to come up again before you disease? I bet some people might wasting valueable dps time, of course you could just let those fall off and hope the next go round you got the buffs to work with and then keep refreshing those, but imo, still to much to try and juggle, we should be shooting for a rotation/prioritization comprised of efficency, and simplicity while maintaining the highest dps possible.

You can, like you suggested, simply apply diseases ASAP and then reapply them once you proc all your trinkets/abilities. I realize this is an extra thing to watch for, but these forums are entirely about the art of min/maxing and when done properly, disease refreshing like this should be a DPS increase of 100-200 (more on encounters with >1 target).

What? Switching to UP is a substantial loss over blood presence. In the neighborhood of 10%. When you factor in that the rotation represents only 2/3 of your total damage, and Frost Strike/Rime come in at slightly below your existing rotations average damage, you are looking at having to add frighteningly close to a frost strike every 10 seconds or so, on top of assuming that you are using all your rime and FS procs already.

Blood presence feels wasteful, but it is, but its still the best option. Hard as it is to let things rot, its the best bet.

The World of Warcraft Armory

30% ARP + Trinket

During our 3 hour attempts to get Hardmode mimiron down I decided to test out bp vs up.

Phase 1 I was ALWAYS doing 5.1k-5.3k dps, over like 2 hours of trys.

I tried UP one time, shot down to 4.3k.

Now you might think well this could just be RNG or me messing up or something. But i literally do mean EVERY try beforehand in BP was ALWAYS 5.1-5.3, phase 1 is pretty straight forward tank n spank. Nothing changed, no mess ups or anything when I switched to UP to try it out, but it was about 1k dps less.

Hopefully this can help put to rest UP vs BP for better geared players.

Finally did some dps as DW frost yesterday.

My experiences were, that its perfectly doable in blood. I was personally weaving in some FS during the rune dumps halfway though since i was waiting for a rune refresh sometimes.
Also I agree with some of the previous posts stating that you shouldnt hold KM for rime procs, from what ive seen it usually just lowered my dps. I generally DO hold it if i have a couple of Obliterates comming up, but other than that i just dump it on FS. When i get a rime proc i try to hold it until I get a KM though.

As for the burst, i found frost to have burst on demand if you want it to be there. For the XT attempt i usually tried to get my runes ready. And just popped UA and Ghoul.
Took me a while to learn the rotation, but after learning the rotation a bit on a heroic 5 man. I usually ended in the top 3 on the 25 man encounters, which should be even better next run as i finally got some weapon upgrades (was using blue rep weapons).

But as far as UP vs BP go, I'm convinced that if you prioritize your GCD correctly there should be no way that UP is higher dps than BP. The only situation i can think of is when you can use AMS and top your RP every cooldown.

The glyph does not reset the DoT tick. That is actually what caused BP to fall off early as it would drop whenever it ticked with less than 3 seconds remaining.

Another mod that can be used to watch this is Mik scrolling combat text. You can set it so that it flashes on your screen when you get KM, Rime, Unholy STR, Greatness, and other trinket procs. You can also set it so that it will tell you when KMRime is ready by adding an exception to not show KMRime unless both are up.

I've been doing some Ulduar HM with GoD/BP and 3/51/17 from OP. I found out that it was really a mess to follow all priorities and maintain a proper cycle without letting diseases go off. Having to run back and forth leads to reapply diseases manually most of the time, meaning a DPS loss.
So I tried out a GoIT/BP based tree with 3/51/17 from OP but putting the filler points in Icy Talons instead of Hungering Cold and Improved Frost Presence. In this case Icy Talons is useable as IT will trigger it properly, as compared to GoD. The rotation was far more easier and provided more DPS (5650 DPS on Ignis HM, quiet Tank & Spank fight with a 1.5 speed off hand at that time). The only caveat is that I was RP capped a lot of time, and given that FS<OB DPS wise, it can be a DPS loss, but it can be used through DC from distance if you happen to be on a heavy mobility fight.
Do you have the same feeling about the GoD rotation?

Now that we are saving our Rime procs for a KM proc it would be really useful to have a addon with some kind of notifaction when BOTH are up seperate from the individual notifications when each proc. I already have miks scrolling combat text to notify me of procs but it would be nice if there was some kind of extra (perhaps more obnoxious) warning for when they both become active together.

Anyone know of an addon that can do this specifically (there are so many buff/proc notifiers out there that I was hoping one could be set up this way).

[edit] Just raid Whatevr's post, will check msbt for those options. Do the other addons that notify on procs (some of which have bigger warnings which I would like for the KM/Rime together option) have those options also?

I think Power Auras can be set up to just show when both are up. I always found this to be the easiest addon for procs like KM / Rime and the sort, since you can not really miss it.

I personally use 2 seperate warnings for KM and Rime (maybe i'll make a different one if both are up though), since its still good to know when you have a proc. (So that you dont waste KM on IT instead of FS when you have the RP; or so you aren't too careless with RP dumping when you have rime up).

I personally also always dump RP on deathcoil in movement heavy fights, as said before, movement makes you even more limted in your GCD. Its way better to deathcoil than to overcap RP.

While you're on the subject I'll have to promote NeedToKnow (http://www.todowow.com/wp-content/up...eedtoknow.jpeg). Basically it adds a countdown bar of your size when it proccs and you can edit what you want it to show. With it it's incredibly easy to see when you have KM up and when you have both up.

Mik's does this:

You need to set 2 additional triggers. The first trigger is the exact same as the KM or Rime proc. When you open up the trigger conditions there's a tab below that says Trigger Exceptions. In there you add in Buff Inactive-Equal To - Freezing fog (or KM). You have to make that exception for both KM and Rime if you want it to pop up. Here's a picture to show you, hopefully it'll help.


This one had the exact same trigger as Killing Machine I just added the exception onto it for Freezing Fog
.
Just do the same thing for Killing Machine.

edit: Here's the trigger in it's entirety:

I haven't really had a problem at all with dumping RP or staying capped for very long in Blood Presence, I'm also one to never follow a strict rotation, the DK resource system + a raid encounter is very dynamic, so I spend a lot of my time staring at my runes and their refresh times to juggle in things when I have the time.

I basically start with IT PS BS BS OB, or I depending on the encounter if I don't need burst at any keypoint soon I'll do IT PS OB BS BT UA.

I never really have a strict RP dump phase, I just watch my rune cooldowns so closely that I'll throw in a froststrike whenever I have the time to, sometimes I cut it extremely close but I can manage to sneak in froststrikes at all times while waiting for the runes to OB, reapply diseases, or BS.

Granted my ping is pretty good, usually sub 70.

I do miss a lot of RIME/KM HBS because of the way they delay sometimes, but I catch quite a few as well.

I've never followed a set rotation for any spec I've played with and I've always managed to keep up, sometimes pass our fully BIS geared rogues with my 3-4 pieces of BIS.

I really like the DKI runes mod with the falling runes graphic to help me time stuff just right.

I've been searching this thread for the reasoning behind this, but been unsuccesfull so far. I know KM is better used on HB due to the already higher critrate on FS and its nerf this patch, but shouldn't it be added to always use up the proc before casting the next Obliterate to prevent the effect from overwriting itself? Is it more beneficial waiting with the HB until you do have KM up, even if there's a chance you'll be overwriting it therefor losing one HB cast?

Essentially yes, If you are In blood presence you are already starved for GCD's, if you ARE going to use a GCD outside of Rune usage and frost strike, it had better be a crit. If you are in unholy presence then you can pretty much pop anything you want to whenever you want to and still have time to spare.

You are thinking the wrong way.
You have to let go of the idea that every rime proc is an increase in dps because it does damage.
We are limited in GCD.
Imagine that during a given time period you can only do 6 attacks. Would you waste one of those attacks on an attack that does 2000 damage, or do you use that for an attack that does 6000 damage.
It is not that rime itself is bad. It's simply that in the limted timeframe we have, there are stronger attacks.

As for my rotation. At first I tried to stick to a set rotation, since I figured that was easier to get to know the spec with. But in the end I personally found it easier to just go by the priority system.

In my mind it basically goes like this:
- Any runes available for use? No: FS / Yes: next step
- If frost/unholy/death runes: Diseases up? Yes: Obliterate / No: IT+PS (with diseases up i usually check if they fall off before a next set of UF runes become available)
- If blood runes: Bloodstrike if no other runes available
- If Rime Proc is up: KM up? Yes: HB / No: Ignore

NOTE: This isn't a priority list from top down, this is more of a checklist, i consider all options each GCD basically

This isn't a strict priority list as much as a checklist I make for myself each second. I rate Diseases highest, then Rime+KM, then rune attacks and last RP dump (which i weave into my other attacks). I usually let KM "handle itself", it usually goes to the RP dumps anyway, unless I have an available Freezing Fog proc. However sometimes i intervene a bit by weaving in an early FS to avoid IT from stealing KM, but only if that doesn't mess things up.