Has anyone got the dps numbers for the sigil of virulence?

And will it be superior to sigil of awareness?

@AtheistGod - Aside from the fact that it's a drop (read: random chance to get), you're missing the point entirely. Which is perfectly fine, because Darkside's answer is all I needed to hear.

@vank

I'm going to go ahead and use your statweights in the OP if you are okay with it, I'll write a small note stating that ArP and Haste may change slightly based on what we do with the final few points of the build, but in general I feel your statweights are a solid representation of the core frost buid. Thanks for taking the time to run these.

In regards to the hit value above the cap, in the old unholy DW thread we calculated it to be between 100 and 115 depending on spec. I'm sure there will be slight variations for frost, (Unholy having a stronger BCB, but frost having KM based on auto attacks) but I don't see the hit after spell cap changing too much from the old builds, at the end of the day its just additional white damage + procs that are dependant on the white hits.


@ Foxx

Your numbers for speed vs dps for weapons match up perfectly with the math from page 20 or so, that being a level 80 blue is about the same as a fast ulduar drop for ToT frost builds. I think I'll also add a section about this to the OP, in an effort to reduce the number of repeat questions that we get here.

I'm having trouble understanding the EP tables, they show hit at a scarily high value. Are those the values hit has before you are soft capped for melee specials, or until spell cap, and then the spellcap part is hit above spell cap?

Hit is until melee hit cap (263), spell hit is until spell hit cap (289). I still think the value of hit is placed far too highly in the EP however.

Why would the hit EP go up after you hit melee cap?

This was a fail idea! I could only get the first 2 bloodstrikes in with Chilblains on to get the benefit of the glyph. Only way to benefit from it was to totally botch the rotation, which isn't worth it.

10 Seconds just doesn't last long enough.

Chillblains is not an option for glyph of BS, this was stated sveral pages back. Feral tank or FFB mage the way to go.

EDIT: Spelling.

I don't have the dps numbers, but I found out it has an internal cooldown of about 10 seconds.

So, where did you find that out? Can you please back it up?

Tested proc rates with a dummy, since it procs off of the ability Obliterate I can pretty much use any target I can hit.

20s - 11s	No Procs, during testing.
10s - 01s	Procs almost right away.
	(As long as you time your obliterate to hit right as the 10s mark comes up.)

As of right now I'm unsure if it procs off of the Off-hand, I'll test that later on when I have time.

Although, I have an addon to make this easier.

All my procs are listed with their timers.

Xabora, did you test if both hands of OB can activate that effect?

Because if it can it is basically 100% uptime I think.

Edit: crap just read you didn't test that yet and testing it later. But still it seems like 100% uptime which is a pretty nice sigil

Melee hit cap with NoCS is only 5% (164 rating), or 132 rating with draenei.

Having come from a more unholy background, I'm curious of the idea is that pre-expertise soft-cap the notion with the above-suggested stat lines is to gem expertise over strength if one isn't at the 26 cap?

Read the OP, its right there.

On this subject though, i personally pulled a point out of UA. It was just messing up my rotation way too much, even with cancelaura and UA macro.
This is most likely because I'm still getting used to this spec, having to offtank most encounters and heroics so far probably didn't help that. I also forget to use it every cooldown, which probably just makes it worse.
I think i'll pick it up again once I become really familliair with the rotation.

The problem as far as i could tell basically comes down to this:
- I can not pop it when my blood runes are refreshing as death runes, because if i do so. It will use a frost rune, and convert an already about to refresh deathrune into the same deathrune. Nett loss here is a frost rune (thus an obliterate).
- I could be wrong on this, but when I use it with all runes on cooldown, it will make 1 blood rune a death rune and then uses it up immideatly. Meaning that it goes on a 10 sec CD again, which disturbs your rotation unless you use it when you just used BS or double death rune obliterate.
- If i used it like this: IT>PS>UA>OB>BS; it worked, but again this tosses off your rune refresh timers. Making your rotation delay awkwardly. Same for weaving it in on the second part of the rotation

Did get very good use of it by using it like this though: IT>PS>OB>UA>BS>BS
Combined with a cancelaura on BS that works perfect, but that is such a selective part of your rotation. And cancelaura is something you sometimes don't want.
I guess i could get this to work once i know the rotation though, and know the points where i can and can not use it. And then it's probably a dps increase. Until then i specced 3/53/15 with 5/5 KM.


Cleared Firefighter (10 man) yesterday for the first time, where i had the first good shot to test the spec and dps. Not much use posting recount data or anything here (didnt take a WWS unfortunately), because im a bomb soaker in phase 3. Granted it's not the easiest fight to learn a new spec on, but I guess i did relatively good.
A things i noted though, BCB (still had the 53/18 spec back then), was acting akward. One time it only was 1.5% of my dps (recount adds up both hands), the next it was 4.8% of my dps. In a fairly similar situation (perfect phase 1 + 2; phase 3 messed up due to new magnetic core mechanics). I mean i know it has RNG, but that is just bizzare. But I think more in this thread had that idea as well.

No Merciless Combat seems like a very bad idea. I'd suggest giving 2 points to BCB (with KM being the one losing points when needed, no Obliterate in it makes it naturally lackluster).

My results on a 150h are similar but not exactly same, with haste being higher naturally.

PS. Haste being given more opportunity is quite important lately since half the Plate DPS drops I see appear to have it.

This just in: Dummy tests accurately reflect raid dps. Oh wait...

Dummy's do not have sunders, 13% magic debuffs, +hit debuffs, etc. As such, the bonus damage the Sigil of Virulence gives to your dots, BCB, white damage, Frost Strikes, KM/Rime Procs, etc. are not accurately reflected.

The best time to use it with regards to rotation is when your death runes are first becoming active.

IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> OB -> Dump

OB -> UA (with the first death rune from blood strike)-> OB (with the death runes)-> OB/Cancel Aura -> Dump

Doing that means that a death rune intended for Obliterate is used for Unbreakable armor, but IMMEDIATELY refreshed and used. If you don't cancel aura, that death rune will turn back into a blood when your other blood is a death rune again.

This might not be the optimal time to use it with regards to DPS, but it does nothing to screw up your rotation.

On every boss that didn't require me to switch targets and re-ramp up attacks I had over 90% up time. 88.9% on XT, 93% on Auriaya and 96% on Algalon.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Of course it would. Quite a bit of your damage does not show up when doing test on dummies which is why it's typically a horrible idea to run any testing on dummies. All of this damage would scale with Virulence Sigil where Awareness is always counted. Not to mention Virulence will scale with raid buffs as well.

Is there anyone other than fargom running with 0/14/57 DC spam unholy build? Yesterday I copied his spec, went and did toc25 and ulduar25. I forgot to log till the end but I could only do ~6k dps on bosses, losing to decent geared 2h blood DK. Someone pointed out that my DC numbers were a bit too low so I suspect that's where the low damage came from.

So does anybody have a good parse for DC spam unholy build?

Getting SotVH would help, only thing I can think of.

I ran just about every build I could think of through the sim. 2/2 Merciless Combat was negligible, i.e. 10 DPS on either side. As my gear improves I will revisit other builds, but for my gear at present, 2/2 Merciless Combat doesn't improve anything.