For some reason i only put out 3.5k+ dps with the IT PS BS BS OB dump OB OB OB rotation but when i use HB OB BS BS dump OB OB OB i can pull out 4.2k+ is that little for the gear i have ?

That makes no sense unless you are in an AE pack. Your obliterates would have only one disease modifier with the second rotation so they should be hitting a bit lower.

In order to maximize DPS, is it best to refresh diseases before they run out OR a split second after they run out. If I refresh them before, will I miss a damage tick?

I'm having some problems with KM + rime procs, when I get rime waiting for KM I always click frost strike the second KM procs, making my rime wasted. Is there any addon, macro or anything that can stop me from casting any other spell when KM + rime is up?

Also, when I started DWing i went up around 4-500 DPS, from blood. But now my gear is vastly better, and I have a lot more armor penetration. Is blood the top DPS spec with high end raiding gear atm? Talking about 2h blood of course.

Depends which spec you are talking about. refreshing with the GoD spec has no disease clipping. But its better to refresh while the diseases are still on, that way you get the damage modifiers.

So coming back to my question. For example, if you have +100% dmg buff is it better to refresh diseases on first second of buff and on last second cuz then they get 100% buffed uptime. Thats the way how GoD works?

GoD refreshes the disease timers on the current target. It doesn't reapply them.

IE: If you apply FF and BP when you have a Crusader proc, Greatness proc, and Paragon proc, you could keep your diseases at that strength on a target indefinitely so long as you use Pest before the diseases time out.

The limitations on GoD are that when you use it to spread diseases, they are applied to all secondary targets at your current buff level. This means that if your main target has some super diseases rolling on it, any secondary targets will get fresh disease applications, which are not necessarily those super diseases on the main target.

Keep this in mind for bosses like Jaraxxus. You would probably want to refresh diseases and spread them from Jaraxxus to the adds (to keep the good ones on him rolling), rather than apply them to whatever new add pops up then pest to merely keep diseases present on Jaraxxus. If Jaraxxus is not your target when you use Pest, the diseases on your main target will overwrite whatever diseases are on him. In most cases that will probably result in weaker diseases being applied and good strong ones being lost.

In my current gear, fully raid buffed, rawr is valuing 4T8 as ~100 DPS, and 2T9 as ~50, so yes, 4T8 set bonus > 2T9 set bonus. However, when you combine the 2T9 set bonus with the stat gain from individual slot upgrades, the T9 will absolutely be an upgrade.

So should I strive for the T9 4pc then? Or will there be too much much of a DPS loss? I know base stats are good as well.. But Set bonus mean a lot as well..

And you you say T9 will absolutely be an upgrade, but is there an estimation of how much more DPS it will do then T8 w/ 4 PC?

BTW you're under hit cap :P

Well for all those still DW as Unholy:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

7586 DPS on Ignis.

9k damage on adds (WP- not much I can do about that).
No Flask or Haste pots (just Fish Feast).
3.45 kill so wasn't amazingly fast.

Been a while since my last Ignis kill and gotten a few upgrades since then. Had a cleaner run this time too. Looking forward to 4 x t9 and ilvl 245 weapons. Should break 8k.

Is anyone else still DW as Unholy or is it all DW Frost now? How is everyone else doing?

People are still playing DW unholy, it's just a smaller segment of the overall DW population than frost. From all parses I've seen there is no appreciable dps difference between the two types, so it just comes down to which raid buff is more valuable to your normal raid group. We don't have another unholy DK, so ebon plaguebringer is pretty much the most valuable thing I can contribute, so I play unholy.

This is the main reason we've chosen to continue discussion unholy DW in the same thread as Frost, people who need to switch on the fly for the other raid buff can come to the same place for information.

Or maybe Rawr is wrong. It hasnt been accurate for DKs in a while and its recent valuation of t9 is completely off from stat values posted here.

Okay, what about it is inaccurate?

Once one gets 4 piece tier 9, and the bonus works, will Unholy Dual Wield be superior due to the extra disease damage? If so, would one want to use GoD with the unholy spec to maximize their diseases? I'm probably going to have to stay frost anyway to provide WF (our shaman are very, very, very flakey - we usually end up running with 1 or 0 in a 25 man), but I'm curious as to if it will surpass frost, given that I'm seeing people claiming they are nearly equal now.

You are only talking about a modest % increase on the difference between disease damage in both specs. its not significant enough to shift the balance between specs much. We are talking about DW Unholy gaining ~1% of additional damage over DW Frost as a generous estimate. Probably less then that.

It's more of a concern for 10s than 25s, but the dps loss from lack of CF will be magnified by 4t9, so it's probably worth comparing CF+DW Frost vs. DW frost w/o CF vs. DW Unholy.

Of course, if you're counting on someone else to bring EP/CF, the unholy spec can also save 5 points and fill out desolation and get 2/3 subversion or IUP or other utility talents at the cost of EPB's 3% crit, so maybe the more apt comparison is DW frost+CF vs. DW unholy-no-CF-build+relying on external CF.

Even with CF its going to be a small enough difference 4pT9 so as not to change the relationship between the two much. The much greater factor is raid buff stacking, which is another consideration entirely.

@Yoricome: The 0/18/53 build do make use of Epidemic.

The following calculations assume dual Vul'mir (2.6 speed, 465 average damage), 30% melee crit, 23% spell crit, 20% haste, 15% miss chance (hit capped for specials and spells) and a 0/54/18 build (full bcb, no subversion). They do not consider target armor, armor penetration or magical damage bonuses like Ebon Plaguebringer or Crypt Fever. Many of the numbers are rounded.

Sigil of Virulence

AP bonus from Sigil
200*1.03*1.1 = 226.6 Strength
453.2*1.1 = 498.5 AP

Damage bonus to IT
(498,5*0,1*1,15*1,15*1,2*1,1)+(0,38*(498,5*0,1*1,15*1,15*1,2*1,1)) = 120

Damage bonus to Blood Plague & Frost Fever
498,5*0,055*1,1*1,15 = 34,7~ per tick

Bonus damage to KMRime
498,5*0,1*1,1*1,2*1,15*2,45 = 185,4

Bonus damage to Obliterate
(498,5/14)*2,4*1,15 + 0,45*((498,5/14)*2,4*1,15)*1,45 = 162,725

Bonus damage to Blood Strike
(498,5/14)*2,4*1,15 + 0,3*((498,5/14)*2,4*1,15)*1,45 = 141,7

Bonus damage to Plague Strike
(498,5/14)*2,4*1,15 + 0,36*((498,5/14)*2,4*1,15)*1,3 = 162,725

Bonus damage to Frost Strike
(498,5/14)*2,4*1,1*1,15 + 0,3*((498,5/14)*2,4*1,1*1,15)*1,45 = 155,2

Bonus damage to BCB
(498,5/14)*2.6*0,3 = 27,8

Bonus damage to white hits w/ Necrosis
(498,5/14)*2,4 + ((0,2*1,1)*(498,5/14)*2,4)) = 135,6

Number of attacks
2.6*0,8 = 2,08
20/2,08 = 9,61 attacks

DPS
One rotation is 1 IT, 1 PS, 2 BS, 4 OB, 3 FS,1 HB and 7 ticks of BP and FF to simplify the maths.

Melee: (9,61*(135,6+27,8) + 9,61*(135,6+27,8)*0,575)*0,85 = 2091
Obliterate: 4*162,725 + 4*162,725*0,575 = 1025,85
Blood Strike: 2*141,1 + 2*141,1*0,575 = 446,4
Frost Strike: 3*155,2 + 3*155,2*0,575 = 733,3
Plague Strike: 162,725 + 162,725*0,575 = 259,3
Blood Plague & Frost Fever: 14*34,7 = 485,8
KMRime: 185,4
Icy Touch: 120

2091+1025,85+446,4+733,3+259,3+485,8+185,4+120 = 5347

5347/20 = 267,35 DPS


Sigil of Awareness

Without sigil
((465+1001)*1.25*1.15 + ((465+1001)*1.25*1.15)*0,45*1,45)*4 = 13929,75
13929,75 + 13929,75*0,575 = 21939,36

With sigil
((465+1001+336)*1.25*1.15 + ((465+1001+336)*1.25*1.15)*0,45*1,45)*4 = 17122,38
17122,38 + 17122,38*0,575 = 26967,7485

DPS
26967,7485 - 21939,36 = 5028,3885

5028,3885/20 = 251,4 DPS


Conclusion
It is as we have suspected from the start, the two sigils are very close to each other when looking at a single target fight with no movement. Sigil of Virulence wins by 16 DPS in these calculations, but they do not include all the variables that exist in a raiding environment and I am unsure how they would affect either sigil. Do keep in mind that Sigil of Virulence scales with haste, hit beyond melee hit cap and special debuffs that increase magic damage (F.ex fires at Hodir) whereas Sigil of Awareness does not.

This question has been burning for a while so I need to ask it.

I'm using 0/53/18 DW Frost and I totally understand saving Rime for KM procs on multiple targets. My question is on single targets, is it worth it to use Howling Blast when both Rime + KM proc or just stick with Obliterate?

Thats a tough answer to be accurate with. Far to many things like you ArP of the moment (how many stacks of sunder are up) and what specific buffs you have and debuffs the target has will change the damage delt of both but in differing ways.

From my experience, using a MOD called "DrDamage" which shows in real time the expected average damage of each of my abilities (accounting for crit chance, debuffs on target etc) sometimes it is better to Oblit it still has the higher average damage then rimed/KM'd howling blast. Sometimes the HB is showing the expected higher damage. I also have times when frost strike is showing the higher number in which case I FS and save the rime for a spare gcd and assume if I don't get one using it would have been a DPS loss anyways.

The big flaws I see in my practice is I am trusting DrDamage to theory-craft accurately and update quickly.

if you look over the priority rotation in the op third on the list after having disease up is KM/Rime HB, idea being you want to burn it so that it came become available sooner rather than sit on it. it's a guaranteed 11k hit for me against only a 60% chance that my OB will hit for 11k as well when it crits. If you were to wait and not proc it you'd waste the KM with your FS and waste the Rime proc and 15% chance it procs again on that next OB.

I am wearing gear specifically for the particular build based on the new stats weights data.


This means I swap to a gearset more appropriate to Frosts current strike system. I features a lot of ArP, and little Haste.


The excess hit is due to trinket choices more than anything, PI adds a lot of(uneeded) weight to a lean DW build in my opinion, I just hope that something better comes my way.