yek366

We lost our enhance shaman recently, so I have adopted an IIT spec rather than GoD. Just after switching, I got a Death's Verdict. I wasn't sure which set of trinkets to use (Greatness/Mjolnir/Verdict) combined with which sigil (Virulence or Awareness). The most extreme difference was Greatness/Verdict + Virulence when I obtained ~20% FS/OB/White dps, and Verdict/Mjolnir/Awareness which 33% OB and 20% White/FS. As far as pure dps numbers, I was still getting highest actual dps (NOT SIM) with the OB based rotation by about 250-300 on single target. I know that this isn't what sims say, but this is actual dps in ToC.

 

• frmorrison

The SS changes aren't the "nail in the coffin" of DW Unholy, but rather the UB nerf and IT glyph nerf, so that means more focus is the SS damage and less focus on DC's damage, which adversely affects DW builds.

I wouldn't say 3.3 DW Unholy is dead (like if you had 245 DW weapons but 219 2H, even in 3.3 DW Unholy would be better), just isn't ideal.

It is just a guess, but I would expect 3.3 in Jan/Feb, so lots of time to find a new weapon or spec.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Necromir

It's really sad as that's a niche DW is losing. I enjoy having IIT and EP as two specs I can bounce back and forth between to help out the raid. Now if I want to give EP to the raid I have to compete with ret pallies, warriors, blood dks for 2h weapons.

I'm wondering if UP could save DW Unholy next patch but I think the losses are just too much. I would boost our melee a little more but still probably not enough.

 

Fargom

Just to clarify the unholy DW situation in 3.3:

0/17/54 DC spam (A build most people aren't using after obtaining 4 piece tier 9) This build is most likely going to be non competitive due to the IT glyph change, and the change from 20% to 10% on UB.

15/0/55 +1 DW (current top unholy spec) This is the spec of choice after 4 piece tier 9, and while the new SS is actually a huge buff, its simply more of a buff for the two handed version of this spec. The IT glyph change and UB change do not effect this spec more than a two handed version, as both builds generate the exact same RP and throw the exact same amount of DC's.

Everything is subject to change, however as the patch isn't live yet.

The main point to remember regarding unholy DW is why it works. You need to ask yourself with any unholy DW build, "Do the benefits outweigh the loss of strike damage?" Currently the answer is yes for both builds listed above. For 15/0/55 in 3.2.2 the difference in damage between a 1handed SS and a two handed SS is small enough to be overtaken by the extra white damage and extra necrosis/bcb damage from using two weapons. If the PTR SS goes live the difference will grow large enough to swap the answer of the "prime" unholy DW question, meaning there is no reason at all to use two weapons.

All that said, I don't see any reason to panic whatsoever. The play style is the exact same between 2h and DW unholy, so if you want to continue to bring ebon plaguebringer to your raid just grab a new weapon and switch two talent points. Hey, think of it as more justification to go for your guild's Shadowmourne.

 

consumerboy

I've running with a dual wield frost spec on my DK, see armory build below

The World of Warcraft Armory

I've been working my rotation, trying to build up my DPS raid numbers, but I'm continually at the bottom of the DPS pile. See some wws listed below

Wow Web Stats

I have seen slight improvements in my DPS with spikes up to 4k (more if I pad the numbers by killing whelps for instance in Onyxia) but raid boss averages down around 3.2k. My concern, what should my DPS average for a tank/spank style boss be?

There is some concern/discussion that I should switch to 2h blood spec like our primary DPS DK, but my question is centering around my 'skills'. Am I severely underperforming given my gear and spec? Is the blood rotation 'easier'? It sounds silly to ask it this way but being realistic I need to figure out the best way I can maximize my raid DPS given my gear and my personal keystroking skills.

thanks
Warmark

edit: you've answered my question, what should the optimal dps be given my gear and spec. Thanks. Your simulation results illuminate the areas for improvement. Thanks again.

 

Bullshifter

@Warmark- There are a number of things you can probably do to improve your dps, even with your current gear and glyphs choices, which aren't optimal, though you probably know that. I just plugged your stats and spec/glyphs into Kahorie's simulator and got:

Ability| Total| %| Landed| Hit%| Crit%| Miss%| Average|
Obliterate| 557998445| 27.8| 75922| 51.4| 45.6| 3| 7349.6|
FrostStrike| 491225521| 24.5| 68583| 47.5| 49.5| 3| 7162.5|
MainHand| 271074954| 13.5| 158613| 51.5| 28.8| 19.7| 1709|
OffHand| 150439549| 7.5| 158802| 51.6| 28.9| 19.6| 947.3|
HowlingBlast| 148152697| 7.4| 21079| 39.7| 58.9| 1.5| 7028.4|
FrostFever| 105533829| 5.3| 108171| 100| 0| 0| 975.6|
BloodStrike| 85572628| 4.3| 31931| 65.9| 30.9| 3.2| 2679.9|
Necrosis| 84347492| 4.2| 317415| 100| 0| 0| 265.7|
Ghoul| 48240283| 2.4| 84197| 87.1| 12.9| 0| 572.9|
BloodCakedBlade| 43067722| 2.1| 92817| 96.8| 0| 3.2| 464|
Vis'kag| 13712241| 0.7| 6265| 32.1| 67.9| 0| 2188.7|
IcyTouch| 3827397 | 0.2| 1183| 43.7| 55.1| 1.3| 3235.3|
Raz| 1588020 | 0.1| 158802| 100| 0| 0| 10|
Horn| 0 | 0| 14732| 100| 0| 0| 0|
DPS 5569
Total Damage 2004.78m in 100h
Threat Per Second 4349
Generated in 73s
Template: Warmark's talents 0-53-18
Priority: Glyph of Howling Blast Frost Rotation
Presence: Blood
Sigil: Awareness
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader / Razorice
Pet Calculation: True

Keep in mind the dps figure from the simulator is typically a theoretical best, where you perform flawlessly, don't have to move, etc. I haven't figured out how to get a true "Howling Blast Glyph" priority going for the sim, where it doesn't use Icy Touch, but rather only applies Frost Fever with Howling Blast, but it should be close enough to show that there is some potential there to increase your dps by refining your rotation.

Some issues for you: You are using Glyph of Howling Blast, so I assume you are doing the single disease frost thing, which really isn't good anymore. You have very low ArP, and relatively high haste, which would be more suited for Unholy than DW Frost. You have tanking bracers. I would strongly encourage going to a more normal (now) 2 disease rotation, and replacing the Howling Blast glyph. You don't appear to have worked towards any set bonuses. These are just a few thougts for you.

edit- clarity

 

Ismail

His parse link shows he isn't using a single disease rotation so the HB glyph is a waste.

On the topic of HB rotation simulation the Team Robot Simulator allows a pretty good HB rotation to be set up. With Kahorie's Simulator and Warmark's gear and spec and the basic frost rotation I got 6572 dps with Team Robot I got 6412 dps with the basic frost rotation and 6407 dps with single disease frost with HB set up for use on KM Rime and keeping FF up.

Ability| Total| %| Landed| Hit%| Crit%| Miss%| Average|
Obliterate| 572493446| 24.2| 64883| 51.3| 45.7| 3| 8823.5|
FrostStrike| 555178188| 23.5| 70324| 48.4| 48.6| 3| 7894.6|
MainHand| 304206291| 12.9| 154461| 54| 28.9| 17.1| 1969.5|
OffHand| 168604491| 7.1| 160245| 54.1| 28.8| 17.1| 1052.2|
FrostFever| 124258054| 5.3| 111869| 100| 0| 0| 1110.7|
BloodPlague| 116719918| 4.9| 111587| 100| 0| 0| 1046|
BloodStrike| 105367072| 4.5| 32538| 66| 30.9| 3.1| 3238.3|
Necrosis| 94558149| 4| 314706| 100| 0| 0| 300.5|
HowlingBlast| 81801163| 3.5| 9051| 23.4| 76.6| 0| 9037.8|
IcyTouch| 71512809| 3| 18560| 41.5| 58.5| 0| 3853.1|
BloodCakedBlade| 65077201| 2.8| 92043| 96.8| 0| 3.2| 707|
Ghoul| 47385834| 2| 82348| 87| 13| 0| 575.4|
PlagueStrike| 45026610| 1.9| 18559| 60.8| 36.2| 3| 2426.1|
Vis'kag| 11971937| 0.5| 6079| 32.1| 67.9| 0| 1969.4|
Raz| 1762695 | 0.1| 160245| 100| 0| 0| 11|
Horn| 0 | 0| 290| 100| 0| 0| 0|
DPS 6572
Total Damage 2365.92m in 100h
Threat Per Second 5158
Generated in 60s
Template: Warmark
Priority: Frost
Presence: Blood
Sigil: Awareness
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader / Razorice
Pet Calculation: True

 

consumerboy

cleared for sanity reasons

 

Ariseundead

I don't know where I am screwing up at, I am doing 4K dps in 5 man's. I am not saying that is great but more of a baseline, then when I do 10 or 25 man raids I only go up just a tad. I was PISSED last night that I was only doing 3500 dps in 25 man in TOC, I mean are you FREAKING kidding me with my gear. Please disregard Lionhead Slasher it dropped last night and nobody wanted so I picked it up to try it out. I DW Raging Deathbringer with FC on MH/OH, normally. I am wodnering should I just go ahead and switch to unholy, I was unholy ever since playing the game but switched to frost DW when the hybrid build was the rave. I really need to know what dumb move I am possibly doing that is causing my dps to be such trash. Could group makeup be the problem, I had two DK's, pally, and rogue in a group with me. I don't know I just know that I am doing something REALLY stupid or perhaps many stupid things combined.

Lionhead Slasher:
[Lionhead Slasher]
Raging Deathbringer:
[Raging Deathbringer]

Armory Lite - The WoW Armory Alternative: Ariseundead of Nazgrel

WoW Heroes seems to have my information from when I am DW my axes.
[http://wow-heroes.com/]

 

Breganth

You're using the Glyph of Disease, but not really the spec for it. Go back to page one and use the template for the GoD spec. It will help you. GoD eliminates the need to reapply diseases and allows for a more obliterate heavy rotation. 3 points in Subversion = 9% crit to obliterate (that's roughly 409 critical strike rating). That's a pretty big bump to what's normally about 30-33% of your overall single target damage for only 3 talent points.

You should also look into putting a point into unbreakable armor

 

• frmorrison

The only stuff is good advise, but I disagree with this. If someone can only do 3k dps, then learning how to use /blood tap /UA is a more advanced skill.

It is better to focus on getting the normal talents and its Oblit heavy rotation down first.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Invaishir

@Ariseundead: Are you main-handing the Lionhand Slasher? It seems way too fast to be used with Frost DW, would you happen to have a slower 232 weapon you could use? If not you could try putting your Deathbringer in your mainhand. Also, why no Razorice on your offhand it's a lot better than the second FC. And as Breganth pointed out, you're using GoD when you're not specced for it. My suggestion would be to pick either 0/53/18(or 3/53/15 if you have threat problems) w/ GoIT or go with the GoD spec from the OP.