Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 102

arnham · 12/11/09, 3:08 AM

Originally Posted by Yotka

BA vs Necrosis is independant of 2pt10 - depends on Weapon Speed & damage.

You're correct, but I also added the stats from the 2pc t10 and threw in the badge cloak as well (my cloak is bad =/)

Also, I wouldn't have any points in necrosis after 2pc t10 as I would have reaping instead. (assuming I reach the point where reaping > necrosis with that. Probably would, but haven't simmed it yet)

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Oh well, I'm going to go to sleep now...enough theorycraft >.>

Yotka · 12/11/09, 3:09 AM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

Tested it tonight on a random Onyxia run by sticking a pair of spell pen gems in some old boots. No effect on partial resistances. The unpenetratable resistances remain as such.

Thank you for looking into it - had myself all fuzzed up.

It could have been interesting though... Spen being viable for PvE dps.

Artamier · 12/11/09, 3:21 AM

So far seems we will be reverting back to out old spec and rotation with alittle modifying. Rotation will revert to PS>IT>BS>BS>SS>Dump
SS>BB>BB>SS>Dump
???
With that being a 20 second rotation we will still spec into 2/2 Epidemic, but not reaping since there is no use for Death Runes.
Just alot of ideas and rotations/spec floating around, making sure im on point here.

Valtiel · 12/11/09, 3:52 AM

I would like to spend a second mourning the loss of about 1 month of theorycraft, speculation and testing.

I really feel for Consider at the moment; hopefully he saved the 3.2 OP text; with minimal cut and pasting, he can now re-post it and have it more or less valid.
Always look at the bright side.

On a more serious note, what we should aim at now is collecting stable test data on the new SS damage; it's very complex to model accurately due to recount's current limits, but being able to compare the current damage with 3.2's damage could be important to figure out the value of the usual suspects (BA, Necrosis etc) in elaborating the best variant of the 3.2 specc we will be using now.

I honestly doubt Blizzard doesn't want us to take Reaping, so I expect further changes - possibly this time to the talent itself, they could eventually add a side effect to it to encourage us to still specc into it without "rebuffing" SS.

micronSD · 12/11/09, 3:55 AM

Originally Posted by Valtiel

I would like to spend a second mourning the loss of about 1 month of theorycraft, speculation and testing.

I really feel for Consider at the moment; hopefully he saved the 3.2 OP text; with minimal cut and pasting, he can now re-post it and have it more or less valid.
Always look at the bright side.

On a more serious note, what we should aim at now is collecting stable test data on the new SS damage; it's very complex to model accurately due to recount's current limits, but being able to compare the current damage with 3.2's damage could be important to figure out the value of the usual suspects (BA, Necrosis etc) in elaborating the best variant of the 3.2 specc we will be using now.

I honestly doubt Blizzard doesn't want us to take Reaping, so I expect further changes - possibly this time to the talent itself, they could eventually add a side effect to it to encourage us to still specc into it without "rebuffing" SS.

Attaching Unholy Blight to SS perhaps?

arnham · 12/11/09, 4:05 AM

Originally Posted by Valtiel

I would like to spend a second mourning the loss of about 1 month of theorycraft, speculation and testing.

I really feel for Consider at the moment; hopefully he saved the 3.2 OP text; with minimal cut and pasting, he can now re-post it and have it more or less valid.
Always look at the bright side.

On a more serious note, what we should aim at now is collecting stable test data on the new SS damage; it's very complex to model accurately due to recount's current limits, but being able to compare the current damage with 3.2's damage could be important to figure out the value of the usual suspects (BA, Necrosis etc) in elaborating the best variant of the 3.2 specc we will be using now.

I honestly doubt Blizzard doesn't want us to take Reaping, so I expect further changes - possibly this time to the talent itself, they could eventually add a side effect to it to encourage us to still specc into it without "rebuffing" SS.

Something like gaining a x% damage boost to SS when using death runes on scourge strike would work. It'd also be somewhat more interesting than a simple +x% damage to x ability. It'd both emphasize scourge strike, and make reaping more attractive. It may not be technically possible on blizzard's end, though.

suicuique · 12/11/09, 4:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jonneh

[20:39:25.956] Jonneh casts Scourge Strike on Fjola Lightbane
[20:39:26.031] Jonneh Scourge Strike Fjola Lightbane Absorb (15006)
[20:39:26.513] Jonneh Scourge Strike Fjola Lightbane Absorb (90582)
[20:39:31.648] Jonneh casts Scourge Strike on Fjola Lightbane
[20:39:31.666] Jonneh Scourge Strike Fjola Lightbane *14934*
[20:39:32.100] Jonneh Scourge Strike Fjola Lightbane *97190* (R: 4541)

It was nice while it lasted

Hardly surprising though really, but even so I think there could have been better solutions. How could they have failed to see this on the ptr and catch it then if its so unacceptable?

They failed to see it, because gimmick encounters tend to highlight gamemechanic design issues. In this case the gimmick encounter was Twins, which were not the subject of testing on the PTR (if you could play ToC at all on the ptr - never tried this).

Twins offer a percentage damage buff, which scourge strike double dips (this is alway very bad ... as seen in the deep wound double dipping on Thaddius and Malygos buff stacking).
Couple this with the fact that double crits were possible (which in itself scale in a quadratic nature with crit percentage) and you get hotfix material.

Now that double crits are out of the way, can somebody tell me if the double dipping is removed too? If not, I'd anticipate that in the not too distant feature as this will haunt scourge strike all the way down until it gets gimmicked out of proportion again.

As a matter of fact, I'm curious: Anyone tried spark stacking on Malygos the last two days? The max crits there must have been completely out of this world when using 4 sparks. Remember that twins buff is 200%, while 4 sparks should result in a 1.5^4*100%=ca. 500% damage buff. If I am not completely off the highest hits possible there would have been 25/4 = 6.25 times as high as on the twins ^^
EDIT: Forgot that extreme spark stacking is not any longer possible on Malygos. Suppose 25man Thaddius would have produced the highest results then.

randyflagg · 12/11/09, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by daia

I originally just compared 3/3 Reaping 2/3 Morbidity 0/5 Necrosis to 0/3, 3/3, 2/5 in my current gear and got slightly higher results without Reaping. Loading in some ICC gear brought Reaping back into style. GoD, too!

GoD only gets about 30~ dps higher than Dark Death in the very best ICC gear.
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I ran some sims with my gear and the stock 2H ToC Unholy profile, with the Dark Death Glyph instead of Disease and with the points moved from Reaping to either Morbidity or Necrosis. In that setup (my gear), I got 8112 dps using 3/3 Morbidity and 2/5 Necrosis and 8181 dps using 5/5 Necrosis and 0/3 Morbidity. With the stock profile I got 8815 dps using 5/5 Necrosis and 8753 with 3/3 Morbidity and 2/5 Necrosis. From a single-target perspective, Necrosis looks to be a 20+ dps per point gain over Morbidity with ToC gear. Moving points from Dark Conviction to Morbidity was a dps loss.

The rotation I used was PS, IT, SS, BS, BS, DC* then SS, SS, BS, BS, DC*.

Max zero · 12/11/09, 4:19 AM

Originally Posted by randyflagg

I ran some sims with my gear and the stock 2H ToC Unholy profile, with the Dark Death Glyph instead of Disease and with the points moved from Reaping to either Morbidity or Necrosis. In that setup (my gear), I got 8112 dps using 3/3 Morbidity and 2/5 Necrosis and 8181 dps using 5/5 Necrosis and 0/3 Morbidity. With the stock profile I got 8815 dps using 5/5 Necrosis and 8753 with 3/3 Morbidity and 2/5 Necrosis. From a single-target perspective, Necrosis looks to be a 20+ dps per point gain over Morbidity with ToC gear. Moving points from Dark Conviction to Morbidity was a dps loss.

The rotation I used was PS, IT, SS, BS, BS, DC* then SS, SS, BS, BS, DC*.

As has been said many times in this thread Necrosis is a pretty decent talent for single target damage. The hotfix has not changed this. The benefit of Morbidity and Bladed Armour is that they have an effect on AoE DPS (dramatic in the case of Morbidity).

Since almost every single fight boss fight in ICC has AoE components its generally not recommended to pull points out of BA or Morbidity (2/3 Morbidity is okay) to put points in Necrosis.

gia · 12/11/09, 4:47 AM

My simulations (using my character stats and trinkets) ended up with 0/2 dirge being the best dps: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I was wondering if anyone has similar results, or if perhaps it's just an issue with my rotation not using runic power optimally: IT PS BS BS SS (DC DC) SS BS BS SS (DC DC)

nerdfuel · 12/11/09, 5:45 AM

Originally Posted by gia

My simulations (using my character stats and trinkets) ended up with 0/2 dirge being the best dps: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I was wondering if anyone has similar results, or if perhaps it's just an issue with my rotation not using runic power optimally: IT PS BS BS SS (DC DC) SS BS BS SS (DC DC)

My simulation says that I would lose ~38 DPS by using that spec.

I've found that when using a 2/5 Dark Conviction and 3/3 Reaping spec I'm getting 7 more DPS than the 5/5 Dark Conviction and 0/3 Reaping spec.

AttackPower	1
Strength	3.11
Agility	1.52
CritRating	2.16
HasteRating	1.87
ArmorPenetrationRating	1.94
ExpertiseRating	1.75
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8%	3.21
SpellHitRating	0.55
WeaponDPS	6.67
WeaponSpeed	253.97

2T9	126.23
4T9	388.52
2T10	298.36
4T10	396.72

These are the stat weights I came up with using the gear I currently have. The values don't seem too bad.

<character>
  <stat>
    <Strength>2203</Strength>
    <Agility>173</Agility>
    <Intel>52</Intel>
    <Armor>15095</Armor>
    <AttackPower>503</AttackPower>
    <HitRating>263</HitRating>
    <CritRating>955</CritRating>
    <HasteRating>185</HasteRating>
    <ArmorPenetrationRating>365</ArmorPenetrationRating>
    <ExpertiseRating>138</ExpertiseRating>
  </stat>
  <weapon>
    <count>1</count>
    <mainhand>
      <dps>281.7</dps>
      <speed>3.6</speed>
    </mainhand>
    <offhand>
      <dps>0</dps>
      <speed>0</speed>
    </offhand>
  </weapon>
  <Set>
    <T102PDPS>0</T102PDPS>
    <T104PDPS>0</T104PDPS>
    <T72PDPS>0</T72PDPS>
    <T72PTNK>0</T72PTNK>
    <T74PDPS>0</T74PDPS>
    <T74PTNK>0</T74PTNK>
    <T82PDPS>0</T82PDPS>
    <T82PTNK>0</T82PTNK>
    <T84PDPS>0</T84PDPS>
    <T84PTNK>0</T84PTNK>
    <T92PDPS>1</T92PDPS>
    <T94PDPS>1</T94PDPS>
  </Set>
  <trinket>
    <Bandit>0</Bandit>
    <BitterAnguish>0</BitterAnguish>
    <Comet>0</Comet>
    <DarkMatter>0</DarkMatter>
    <DCDeath>0</DCDeath>
    <DeathChoice>0</DeathChoice>
    <DeathChoiceHeroic>1</DeathChoiceHeroic>
    <Greatness>1</Greatness>
    <GrimToll>0</GrimToll>
    <Mirror>0</Mirror>
    <MjolnirRunestone>0</MjolnirRunestone>
    <Necromantic>0</Necromantic>
    <OldGod>0</OldGod>
    <Pyrite>0</Pyrite>
    <Victory>0</Victory>
  </trinket>
  <WeaponProc>
    <MHEmpoweredDeathbringer>0</MHEmpoweredDeathbringer>
    <MHRagingDeathbringer>0</MHRagingDeathbringer>
    <MHSingedViskag>0</MHSingedViskag>
    <MHtemperedViskag>0</MHtemperedViskag>
    <OHEmpoweredDeathbringer>0</OHEmpoweredDeathbringer>
    <OHRagingDeathbringer>0</OHRagingDeathbringer>
    <OHSingedViskag>0</OHSingedViskag>
    <OHtemperedViskag>0</OHtemperedViskag>
  </WeaponProc>
  <misc>
    <HandMountedPyroRocket>False</HandMountedPyroRocket>
    <ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>True</ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>
    <TailorEnchant>False</TailorEnchant>
  </misc>
  <racials>
    <MHExpertiseBonus>5</MHExpertiseBonus>
    <OHExpertiseBonus>0</OHExpertiseBonus>
    <Orc>True</Orc>
    <Troll>False</Troll>
    <BloodElf>False</BloodElf>
  </racials>
</character>

Viscera · 12/11/09, 5:56 AM

Originally Posted by suicuique

They failed to see it, because gimmick encounters tend to highlight gamemechanic design issues. In this case the gimmick encounter was Twins, which were not the subject of testing on the PTR (if you could play ToC at all on the ptr - never tried this).

Actually it was tested on the PTR as Blood Queen Lana'thel gives a buff as well that increases your damage done by 100%. I was doing 80k Scourge Strikes throughout the entire test phase so they must have had data from that.

Kaubel · 12/11/09, 8:39 AM

A reminder for those of you who are a little slow:

Originally Posted by Tehax

Whining infractions are now worth triple points in this thread.

So does anyone else want to bitch about the changes? We've had a few this morning who won't be posting for the rest of the day, but the Banhammer never runs out of room for more.

dr_AllCOM3 · 12/11/09, 8:51 AM

I get 12-0-59 as the best spec in every IC gear combination (4T9 favours Dark Conviction). GoD is on par, so you can use it if you want. Other specs aren't that far off, so it could change.
Blood is better on single targets now with IC gear.

Originally Posted by piken

I was testing SS with no diseases to make a baseline for theory crafting and saw that when no diseases are on the target, the shadow portion of the attack is not applied. When diseases are on the target, the shadow portion is applied.

That's how SS works and it's very clearly worded in the tooltip.

Kaveli · 12/11/09, 8:55 AM

For all those who are afraid of scraping the bottom of the charts here is a post nerf parse of Saurfang. Looks good to me.

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