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Old 12/12/09, 12:39 PM   #1591
 frmorrison
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Dark Death is the lowest dps increase of the three glyphs listed in the OP. In addition, for people that wanted to min/max their trash pack AoE could also drop GoDD for glyph of Death and Decay.

Otherwise, you can use your secondary spec for that instead or accept lower trash dps.

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Old 12/12/09, 2:22 PM   #1592
Duress
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Llane
The enchant suggestions to do not match from the BiS list to the recommended enchant list. Minor, but I thought I should point it out.

Also, thank you to the author/updater and contributors. This information, as well as its timeliness, has proved invaluable to me.

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Old 12/12/09, 3:09 PM   #1593
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
New BiS lists added, thanks in large part to Bjados.

And, speaking of, yes, the enchants in the BiS list do match those in the Enchanting section. Remember, glove/boot enchants will vary depending on whether or not your hit capped (and such is stated in the Enchanting section). Otherwise, everything is identical.

Morbidity is not stronger than Necrosis on a single target. Run any sim at any gear level as any spec, and you'll see 4% auto-attack > 5% death coil. Look at any raid parse (such as ones posted on this very page), and you'll see the same.

Please cut it out with the dummy testing. It means nothing, and just clutters up the thread with things blatantly untrue and discussion which will leads nowhere. If you do a dummy testing and have a "feeling" it might actually mean something, then go run some sims or parse some raids, and then post about it. Until then... just, no.

@Fugazor: Were those stat weights calculated simply by changing the set bonus, or actually changing the underlying gear used?

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Old 12/12/09, 5:43 PM   #1594
Lyssa
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Al'Akir (EU)
I ran the numbers from my recent WoL report with Bryntroll and the proc is worth ~390 dps on single target in an unholy build, if that helps you with the BiS lists. According to the sim, in current T9 gear, that put Bryntroll 200 dps above heroic Dual-Blade Butcher.

Small typos: Death's Choice (Heroic) is listed in the non-heroic loot list, and right above the first stat weights table it says 259 instead of 258.

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Old 12/12/09, 5:51 PM   #1595
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Yeah, I have a feeling Bryntroll is BiS. It would help if the sim gave a DPS per AP number, so the loss of stats (crit/arp/etc) could more easily be compared to the gain of the proc. Such a number would be useful for a variety of other reasons and tests, and would actually allow one to compare stat weights and scaling cross specs (something you certainly can't do now). Something I've been desirous of for some time.

As to Death's Choice, that was a difficult call. I would think that given ICC gear, even the most mediocre of players would be able to go back and complete Twin Valks hard, as it isn't a difficult encounter, and as better gear will eliminate the only challenges in it (downing shields in time and not dying). Insanity loot wasn't counted, for that matter.

At any rate, the normal version would be BiS regardless. I suppose I'll change it.

Typos fixed.

Has anyone else noticed Bone Shield charges being consumed by AoEs, such as Algalon stars collapsing?

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Old 12/12/09, 6:00 PM   #1596
Burz
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Consider View Post
Has anyone else noticed Bone Shield charges being consumed by AoEs, such as Algalon stars collapsing?
Yes. I was noticing that today in the Random Heroic. I wasnt sure if that was new or pertinent information to be posted though. But yes. I have noticed that.

I will also be posting some parses hopefully from the Bryntoll next week. A fellow dk in the guild was able to get one in an alt run and will be rolling with it next week so perhaps those will help for analysis. The proc rate does seem to add roughly 5-8% overall damage from what Ive noticed though which, as mentioned, Im sure makes up for the speed. I imagine that for single target fights, which a lot of ICC seems like, this is definitely BIS, but for fights which have more AOE, I would guess that it would be 2nd BIS. Odd to think there may possibly be two BIS weapons but Im sure the different would be fairly low in terms of overall DPS.

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Old 12/12/09, 6:10 PM   #1597
Emokiller
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Malfurion
i have been doing chain heroics and ive noticed that my charges have been getting eatting by aoe, like flamestrike and other no direction damage, i have been to uld this week yet. But if my guild does go back to Algalon monday ill pay close attention to it

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Old 12/12/09, 7:08 PM   #1598
Nimruz
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Undermine
Running the simulator, I find that using this build provides more dps than the build listed on the front page, replacing GoDD with GoD, and Epidemic with 2/3 Morbidity.

The rotation would be:
Intro: PS-IT-SS-BS-PS-DC
Then use: SS-SS-BS-PS-DC-(DC)

Obviously very simple and easy, however using my own gear and the 2h ToC Unholy set, it shows higher dps than the front page build.

17/0/54 Epidemic/No GoD:
Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
MainHand 608000579 19.4 135353 66.2 33.8 0 4492
Ghoul 383742904 12.2 333600 86.9 13.1 0 1150.3
DeathCoil 302563878 9.6 54457 65.2 34.8 0 5556
ScourgeStrikeMagical 236337682 7.5 51070 100 0 0 4627.7
BloodPlague 235377514 7.5 107966 66 34 0 2180.1
ScourgeStrike 233645031 7.4 51070 51.2 48.8 0 4575
BloodStrike 227739258 7.3 63545 57.2 42.8 0 3583.9
FrostFever 211968907 6.8 108109 100 0 0 1960.7
Gargoyle 166332888 5.3 33877 86.9 13.1 0 4909.9
WanderingPlague 150457507 4.8 72540 100 0 0 2074.1
Necrosis 121603015 3.9 135353 100 0 0 898.4
BloodCakedBlade 99387426 3.2 40615 100 0 0 2447.1
PlagueStrike 74296826 2.4 18315 60.3 39.7 0 4056.6
IcyTouch 58425225 1.9 18822 65.1 34.9 0 3104.1
UnholyBlight 30254280 1 54457 100 0 0 555.6
Horn 0 0 969 100 0 0 0
BoneShield 0 0 1186 100 0 0 0
BloodTap 0 0 1084 100 0 0 0
DPS 8723         
Total Damage 3140.13m in 100h         
Threat Per Second 3965         
Generated in 52s         
Template: Unholy 17-00-54         
Priority: Unholy         
Presence: Blood         
Sigil: Virulence         
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader         
Pet Calculation: True        

No Epidemic/GoD
Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
MainHand 606428999 19.2 135353 66.2 33.8 0 4480.4
Ghoul 382008163 12.1 333600 87 13 0 1145.1
ScourgeStrikeMagical 332673614 10.5 71999 100 0 0 4620.5
ScourgeStrike 328807086 10.4 71999 51.1 48.9 0 4566.8
DeathCoil 293303389 9.3 54987 65.2 34.8 0 5334
BloodPlague 268050684 8.5 119999 66 34 0 2233.8
FrostFever 236478937 7.5 119999 100 0 0 1970.7
WanderingPlague 170378872 5.4 80981 100 0 0 2103.9
Gargoyle 167664506 5.3 34392 86.9 13.1 0 4875.1
BloodStrike 125467356 4 34801 57.1 42.9 0 3605.3
Necrosis 121288352 3.8 135353 100 0 0 896.1
BloodCakedBlade 100958797 3.2 40615 100 0 0 2485.8
UnholyBlight 29331420 0.9 54987 100 0 0 533.4
PlagueStrike 4811 0 1 0 100 0 4811
IcyTouch 3697 0 1 0 100 0 3697
Pestilence 0 0 36000 100 0 0 0
BoneShield 0 0 1199 100 0 0 0
BloodTap 0 0 1199 100 0 0 0
DPS 8786         
Total Damage 3162.85m in 100h         
Threat Per Second 3847         
Generated in 62s         
Template: Unholy 14-0-54 GoD        
Rotation: unholy         
Presence: Blood         
Sigil: Virulence         
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader         
Pet Calculation: True         

That's using the simulator's 2h ToC Unholy. In my gear (which isn't that great), it's about an 83dps increase, although I'm not sure if it still wins in ICC and T10 gear. If someone else wants to run the sim and see if they get similar results that would be great.

Last edited by Nimruz : 12/12/09 at 8:44 PM.

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Old 12/12/09, 7:20 PM   #1599
 frmorrison
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
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Originally Posted by Consider View Post
Yeah, I have a feeling Bryntroll is BiS

Has anyone else noticed Bone Shield charges being consumed by AoEs, such as Algalon stars collapsing?
Bryntroll is BiS for Ret (who gets slightly more procs), so it would make sense for it to be BiS for Unholy (this ignores Shadowmourne).

Bone Shield does seem to be consumed by being hit with AoE.

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Old 12/12/09, 7:27 PM   #1600
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
As was discussed in the past (admittedly a while in the past), you can't use a priority system when looking at the value of Epidemic due to the simulator sneaking in that last SS at time where it shouldn't, then having to BS and such for a couple seconds without diseases.

When I went to replicate your results, I received the following, which is pretty much the same and would confirm what you said:
Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
MainHand 608205722 19.3 135353 66.2 33.8 0 4493.5
Ghoul 383995779 12.2 333600 86.9 13.1 0 1151.1
DeathCoil 308834086 9.8 55696 65.2 34.8 0 5545
ScourgeStrikeMagical 241210494 7.7 52083 100 0 0 4631.3
ScourgeStrike 238454162 7.6 52083 51.2 48.8 0 4578.3
BloodStrike 234836805 7.5 65777 57 43 0 3570.2
BloodPlague 230254991 7.3 107239 66.1 33.9 0 2147.1
FrostFever 209560644 6.7 107059 100 0 0 1957.4
Gargoyle 164389914 5.2 33601 86.9 13.1 0 4892.4
WanderingPlague 146744825 4.7 71477 100 0 0 2053
Necrosis 121644024 3.9 135353 100 0 0 898.7
BloodCakedBlade 98655787 3.1 40615 100 0 0 2429
PlagueStrike 69920831 2.2 17486 60.3 39.7 0 3998.7
IcyTouch 57699210 1.8 18663 65.1 34.9 0 3091.6
UnholyBlight 30881357 1 55696 100 0 0 554.5
Horn 0 0 2979 100 0 0 0
BoneShield 0 0 1188 100 0 0 0
BloodTap 0 0 1112 100 0 0 0
DPS 8737         
Total Damage 3145.29m in 100h         
Threat Per Second 3969         
Generated in 39s         
Template: NoMorbiii         
Priority: Unholy         
Presence: Blood         
Sigil: Virulence         
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader         
Pet Calculation: True         
        

However, when I use the proper priority, I receive the following, which proves the build in the OP's superiority:
Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
MainHand 608394557 19.1 135353 66.2 33.8 0 4494.9
Ghoul 384263931 12 333600 86.9 13.1 0 1151.9
DeathCoil 308982884 9.7 55326 65.2 34.8 0 5584.8
BloodStrike 248799443 7.8 68694 57.1 42.9 0 3621.9
ScourgeStrikeMagical 243062487 7.6 52413 100 0 0 4637.4
ScourgeStrike 240269385 7.5 52413 51.2 48.8 0 4584.2
BloodPlague 238918233 7.5 109664 66 34 0 2178.6
FrostFever 214415840 6.7 109663 100 0 0 1955.2
Gargoyle 171728144 5.4 35052 87.1 12.9 0 4899.2
WanderingPlague 153424953 4.8 74138 100 0 0 2069.5
Necrosis 121682050 3.8 135353 100 0 0 899
BloodCakedBlade 100759813 3.2 40615 100 0 0 2480.9
PlagueStrike 70742957 2.2 17471 60.3 39.7 0 4049.2
IcyTouch 54164505 1.7 17471 65.2 34.8 0 3100.3
UnholyBlight 30895344 1 55326 100 0 0 558.4
Horn 0 0 1412 100 0 0 0
BoneShield 0 0 1189 100 0 0 0
BloodTap 0 0 1041 100 0 0 0
DPS 8863         
Total Damage 3190.5m in 100h         
Threat Per Second 4029         
Generated in 43s         
Template: NoMorbiii         
Rotation: Rot         
Presence: Blood         
Sigil: Virulence         
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader         
Pet Calculation: True        

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Old 12/12/09, 7:30 PM   #1601
ricefrog74
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Auchindoun
Originally Posted by Consider View Post
Has anyone else noticed Bone Shield charges being consumed by AoEs, such as Algalon stars collapsing?
I talked to a GM today about this. Based on his/her response, s/he acknowledged this was a known issue and is reporting this to their developers.

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Old 12/12/09, 7:38 PM   #1602
chronomasakari
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Kilrogg
During Marrowgar I realized I was losing bone charges during bonestorm, but I never lost it walking over fires if I recall correctly.

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Old 12/12/09, 7:40 PM   #1603
Emokiller
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Malfurion
as well as i could not get my sim to give out the numbers he got for the build he came up with, best it did for me with my gear was
Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
MainHand 551025959 36.8 127809 59.2 37.6 3.2 4311.3
Ghoul 337240369 22.5 327359 87 13 0 1030.2
Gargoyle 142523153 9.5 29879 87.3 12.7 0 4770
Necrosis 110217059 7.4 127809 100 0 0 862.4
BloodPlague 102385251 6.8 51127 62.2 37.8 0 2002.6
DeathCoil 62339279 4.2 12886 62.6 37.4 0 4837.8
ScourgeStrike 57101365 3.8 14609 45.3 51.3 3.3 3908.6
BloodCakedBlade 46886666 3.1 37180 96.7 0 3.3 1261.1
WanderingPlague 38446692 2.6 19163 100 0 0 2006.3
PlagueStrike 27940336 1.9 7304 55.2 41.9 2.9 3825.3
BloodStrike 16686522 1.1 7305 51.2 45.3 3.5 2284.3
UnholyBlight 6233082 0.4 12886 100 0 0 483.7
ScourgeStrikeMagical 16861 0 14609 100 0 0 1.2
FrostFever 10248 0 7 100 0 0 1464
IcyTouch 3610 0 1 0 100 0 3610
Pestilence 0 0 1 100 0 0 0
DPS 4164         
Total Damage 1499.06m in 100h         
Threat Per Second 1710         
Generated in 41s         
Template: Unholy 17-00-54-3         
Rotation: ej test         
Presence: Blood         
Sigil: Virulence         
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader         
Pet Calculation: True         

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Old 12/12/09, 8:56 PM   #1604
Vulo_O
Banned
 
Human Death Knight
 
Hakkar (EU)
I had
Ability Total % Landed Hit% Crit% Miss% Average
MainHand 620721707 19,2 132901 59,8 40,2 0 4670,6
Ghoul 362581882 11,2 328961 86,9 13,1 0 1102,2
DeathCoil 310203113 9,6 48535 60,5 39,5 0 6391,3
BloodStrike 268083732 8,3 71745 50,4 49,6 0 3736,6
ScourgeStrike 256334461 7,9 53706 44,6 55,4 0 4772,9
ScourgeStrikeMagical 255092959 7,9 53706 100 0 0 4749,8
BloodPlague 244016134 7,6 110678 59,6 40,4 0 2204,7
FrostFever 208660386 6,5 110629 100 0 0 1886,1
WanderingPlague 182250347 5,7 89051 100 0 0 2046,6
Gargoyle 133741202 4,1 28021 87,1 12,9 0 4772,9
Necrosis 124175714 3,8 132901 100 0 0 934,3
BloodCakedBlade 97182582 3 39890 100 0 0 2436,3
PlagueStrike 75287082 2,3 17780 53,8 46,2 0 4234,4
IcyTouch 56027498 1,7 18039 60,2 39,8 0 3105,9
UnholyBlight 31029378 1 48535 100 0 0 639,3
Horn 0 0 920 100 0 0 0
DPS 8959         
Total Damage 3225,39m in 100h         
Threat Per Second 4162         
Generated in 78s         
Template: prova uh magic         
Priority: Unholy         
Presence: Blood         
Sigil: Virulence         
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader         
Pet Calculation: True         

using:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

and 2h toc blood as equip,(8751 with 2h toc unholy),which character we have to use as default?

But i feel something is wrong in the sim..

Last edited by Vulo_O : 12/12/09 at 9:05 PM.

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Old 12/12/09, 9:06 PM   #1605
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
@EmoKiller: You messed up putting in the rotation. His numbers for such a spec were accurate and in line with what I could reproduce, his Epidemic numbers were simply off (due to using priority).

@Vulo: Without Reaping and without Dirge you generate
10 (PS) + 10 ( IT) + 10 (BS) + 10 (BS) + 15 (SS) + 10 (HoW) + 15 (SS) + 10 (BS) + 10 (BS) + 15 (SS) = 115 RP.

Dirge will increase that by 20 (1xPS, 3xSS), or 17.4% more damage from runic power.
Morbidity will increase the damage done from that RP by 10% (with two points).

Dirge is the clear winner (unless you're generating tons of RP from AMS and such), especially once you hit the Reaping point. Anything to the contrary is the simulator messing up, somehow.

I am getting similar results with the sim showing no dirge to be better. It does so while showing less DC damage by taking Morbidity (which is what logically makes sense, but if that's the case, it shouldn't be doing more overall dps, as nothing else should change). It seems to be somehow giving weight to the GCD saving (scant as it is) that no Dirge provides, which is still flawed, since the GCD saving is meaningless with you already running with plenty of extra.

Not sure what it's doing wrong, but suffice is to say, the sim isn't flawless, and this is very basic math which almost anyone should be capable of doing. I wouldn't advise no Dirge.

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