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12/12/09, 12:39 PM
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#1591
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Protector
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
No WoW Account
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Dark Death is the lowest dps increase of the three glyphs listed in the OP. In addition, for people that wanted to min/max their trash pack AoE could also drop GoDD for glyph of Death and Decay.
Otherwise, you can use your secondary spec for that instead or accept lower trash dps.
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12/12/09, 2:22 PM
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#1592
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Glass Joe
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The enchant suggestions to do not match from the BiS list to the recommended enchant list. Minor, but I thought I should point it out.
Also, thank you to the author/updater and contributors. This information, as well as its timeliness, has proved invaluable to me.
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12/12/09, 3:09 PM
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#1593
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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New BiS lists added, thanks in large part to Bjados.
And, speaking of, yes, the enchants in the BiS list do match those in the Enchanting section. Remember, glove/boot enchants will vary depending on whether or not your hit capped (and such is stated in the Enchanting section). Otherwise, everything is identical.
Morbidity is not stronger than Necrosis on a single target. Run any sim at any gear level as any spec, and you'll see 4% auto-attack > 5% death coil. Look at any raid parse (such as ones posted on this very page), and you'll see the same.
Please cut it out with the dummy testing. It means nothing, and just clutters up the thread with things blatantly untrue and discussion which will leads nowhere. If you do a dummy testing and have a "feeling" it might actually mean something, then go run some sims or parse some raids, and then post about it. Until then... just, no.
@Fugazor: Were those stat weights calculated simply by changing the set bonus, or actually changing the underlying gear used?
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12/12/09, 5:43 PM
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#1594
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Von Kaiser
Pandaren Monk
Al'Akir (EU)
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I ran the numbers from my recent WoL report with Bryntroll and the proc is worth ~390 dps on single target in an unholy build, if that helps you with the BiS lists. According to the sim, in current T9 gear, that put Bryntroll 200 dps above heroic Dual-Blade Butcher.
Small typos: Death's Choice (Heroic) is listed in the non-heroic loot list, and right above the first stat weights table it says 259 instead of 258.
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12/12/09, 5:51 PM
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#1595
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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Yeah, I have a feeling Bryntroll is BiS. It would help if the sim gave a DPS per AP number, so the loss of stats (crit/arp/etc) could more easily be compared to the gain of the proc. Such a number would be useful for a variety of other reasons and tests, and would actually allow one to compare stat weights and scaling cross specs (something you certainly can't do now). Something I've been desirous of for some time.
As to Death's Choice, that was a difficult call. I would think that given ICC gear, even the most mediocre of players would be able to go back and complete Twin Valks hard, as it isn't a difficult encounter, and as better gear will eliminate the only challenges in it (downing shields in time and not dying). Insanity loot wasn't counted, for that matter.
At any rate, the normal version would be BiS regardless. I suppose I'll change it.
Typos fixed.
Has anyone else noticed Bone Shield charges being consumed by AoEs, such as Algalon stars collapsing?
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12/12/09, 6:00 PM
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#1596
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Glass Joe
Gnome Death Knight
Bonechewer
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Originally Posted by Consider
Has anyone else noticed Bone Shield charges being consumed by AoEs, such as Algalon stars collapsing?
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Yes. I was noticing that today in the Random Heroic. I wasnt sure if that was new or pertinent information to be posted though. But yes. I have noticed that.
I will also be posting some parses hopefully from the Bryntoll next week. A fellow dk in the guild was able to get one in an alt run and will be rolling with it next week so perhaps those will help for analysis. The proc rate does seem to add roughly 5-8% overall damage from what Ive noticed though which, as mentioned, Im sure makes up for the speed. I imagine that for single target fights, which a lot of ICC seems like, this is definitely BIS, but for fights which have more AOE, I would guess that it would be 2nd BIS. Odd to think there may possibly be two BIS weapons but Im sure the different would be fairly low in terms of overall DPS.
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12/12/09, 6:10 PM
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#1597
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Malfurion
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i have been doing chain heroics and ive noticed that my charges have been getting eatting by aoe, like flamestrike and other no direction damage, i have been to uld this week yet. But if my guild does go back to Algalon monday ill pay close attention to it
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12/12/09, 7:08 PM
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#1598
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Undermine
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Running the simulator, I find that using this build provides more dps than the build listed on the front page, replacing GoDD with GoD, and Epidemic with 2/3 Morbidity.
The rotation would be:
Intro: PS-IT-SS-BS-PS-DC
Then use: SS-SS-BS-PS-DC-(DC)
Obviously very simple and easy, however using my own gear and the 2h ToC Unholy set, it shows higher dps than the front page build.
17/0/54 Epidemic/No GoD:
| Ability | Total | % | Landed | Hit% | Crit% | Miss% | Average | | | MainHand | 608000579 | 19.4 | 135353 | 66.2 | 33.8 | 0 | 4492 | | | Ghoul | 383742904 | 12.2 | 333600 | 86.9 | 13.1 | 0 | 1150.3 | | | DeathCoil | 302563878 | 9.6 | 54457 | 65.2 | 34.8 | 0 | 5556 | | | ScourgeStrikeMagical | 236337682 | 7.5 | 51070 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 4627.7 | | | BloodPlague | 235377514 | 7.5 | 107966 | 66 | 34 | 0 | 2180.1 | | | ScourgeStrike | 233645031 | 7.4 | 51070 | 51.2 | 48.8 | 0 | 4575 | | | BloodStrike | 227739258 | 7.3 | 63545 | 57.2 | 42.8 | 0 | 3583.9 | | | FrostFever | 211968907 | 6.8 | 108109 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 1960.7 | | | Gargoyle | 166332888 | 5.3 | 33877 | 86.9 | 13.1 | 0 | 4909.9 | | | WanderingPlague | 150457507 | 4.8 | 72540 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2074.1 | | | Necrosis | 121603015 | 3.9 | 135353 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 898.4 | | | BloodCakedBlade | 99387426 | 3.2 | 40615 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2447.1 | | | PlagueStrike | 74296826 | 2.4 | 18315 | 60.3 | 39.7 | 0 | 4056.6 | | | IcyTouch | 58425225 | 1.9 | 18822 | 65.1 | 34.9 | 0 | 3104.1 | | | UnholyBlight | 30254280 | 1 | 54457 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 555.6 | | | Horn | 0 | 0 | 969 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | BoneShield | 0 | 0 | 1186 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | BloodTap | 0 | 0 | 1084 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | DPS 8723 | | | | | | | | | | Total Damage 3140.13m in 100h | | | | | | | | | | Threat Per Second 3965 | | | | | | | | | | Generated in 52s | | | | | | | | | | Template: Unholy 17-00-54 | | | | | | | | | | Priority: Unholy | | | | | | | | | | Presence: Blood | | | | | | | | | | Sigil: Virulence | | | | | | | | | | RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader | | | | | | | | | | Pet Calculation: True | | | | | | | | |
No Epidemic/GoD
| Ability | Total | % | Landed | Hit% | Crit% | Miss% | Average | | | MainHand | 606428999 | 19.2 | 135353 | 66.2 | 33.8 | 0 | 4480.4 | | | Ghoul | 382008163 | 12.1 | 333600 | 87 | 13 | 0 | 1145.1 | | | ScourgeStrikeMagical | 332673614 | 10.5 | 71999 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 4620.5 | | | ScourgeStrike | 328807086 | 10.4 | 71999 | 51.1 | 48.9 | 0 | 4566.8 | | | DeathCoil | 293303389 | 9.3 | 54987 | 65.2 | 34.8 | 0 | 5334 | | | BloodPlague | 268050684 | 8.5 | 119999 | 66 | 34 | 0 | 2233.8 | | | FrostFever | 236478937 | 7.5 | 119999 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 1970.7 | | | WanderingPlague | 170378872 | 5.4 | 80981 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2103.9 | | | Gargoyle | 167664506 | 5.3 | 34392 | 86.9 | 13.1 | 0 | 4875.1 | | | BloodStrike | 125467356 | 4 | 34801 | 57.1 | 42.9 | 0 | 3605.3 | | | Necrosis | 121288352 | 3.8 | 135353 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 896.1 | | | BloodCakedBlade | 100958797 | 3.2 | 40615 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2485.8 | | | UnholyBlight | 29331420 | 0.9 | 54987 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 533.4 | | | PlagueStrike | 4811 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 100 | 0 | 4811 | | | IcyTouch | 3697 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 100 | 0 | 3697 | | | Pestilence | 0 | 0 | 36000 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | BoneShield | 0 | 0 | 1199 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | BloodTap | 0 | 0 | 1199 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | DPS 8786 | | | | | | | | | | Total Damage 3162.85m in 100h | | | | | | | | | | Threat Per Second 3847 | | | | | | | | | | Generated in 62s | | | | | | | | | | Template: Unholy 14-0-54 GoD | | | | | | | | | | Rotation: unholy | | | | | | | | | | Presence: Blood | | | | | | | | | | Sigil: Virulence | | | | | | | | | | RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader | | | | | | | | | | Pet Calculation: True | | | | | | | | |
That's using the simulator's 2h ToC Unholy. In my gear (which isn't that great), it's about an 83dps increase, although I'm not sure if it still wins in ICC and T10 gear. If someone else wants to run the sim and see if they get similar results that would be great.
Last edited by Nimruz : 12/12/09 at 8:44 PM.
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12/12/09, 7:20 PM
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#1599
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Protector
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Consider
Yeah, I have a feeling Bryntroll is BiS
Has anyone else noticed Bone Shield charges being consumed by AoEs, such as Algalon stars collapsing?
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Bryntroll is BiS for Ret (who gets slightly more procs), so it would make sense for it to be BiS for Unholy (this ignores Shadowmourne).
Bone Shield does seem to be consumed by being hit with AoE.
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12/12/09, 7:27 PM
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#1600
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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As was discussed in the past (admittedly a while in the past), you can't use a priority system when looking at the value of Epidemic due to the simulator sneaking in that last SS at time where it shouldn't, then having to BS and such for a couple seconds without diseases.
When I went to replicate your results, I received the following, which is pretty much the same and would confirm what you said:
| Ability | Total | % | Landed | Hit% | Crit% | Miss% | Average | |
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| MainHand | 608205722 | 19.3 | 135353 | 66.2 | 33.8 | 0 | 4493.5 | | | Ghoul | 383995779 | 12.2 | 333600 | 86.9 | 13.1 | 0 | 1151.1 | | | DeathCoil | 308834086 | 9.8 | 55696 | 65.2 | 34.8 | 0 | 5545 | | | ScourgeStrikeMagical | 241210494 | 7.7 | 52083 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 4631.3 | | | ScourgeStrike | 238454162 | 7.6 | 52083 | 51.2 | 48.8 | 0 | 4578.3 | | | BloodStrike | 234836805 | 7.5 | 65777 | 57 | 43 | 0 | 3570.2 | | | BloodPlague | 230254991 | 7.3 | 107239 | 66.1 | 33.9 | 0 | 2147.1 | | | FrostFever | 209560644 | 6.7 | 107059 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 1957.4 | | | Gargoyle | 164389914 | 5.2 | 33601 | 86.9 | 13.1 | 0 | 4892.4 | | | WanderingPlague | 146744825 | 4.7 | 71477 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2053 | | | Necrosis | 121644024 | 3.9 | 135353 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 898.7 | | | BloodCakedBlade | 98655787 | 3.1 | 40615 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2429 | | | PlagueStrike | 69920831 | 2.2 | 17486 | 60.3 | 39.7 | 0 | 3998.7 | | | IcyTouch | 57699210 | 1.8 | 18663 | 65.1 | 34.9 | 0 | 3091.6 | | | UnholyBlight | 30881357 | 1 | 55696 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 554.5 | | | Horn | 0 | 0 | 2979 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | BoneShield | 0 | 0 | 1188 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | BloodTap | 0 | 0 | 1112 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | DPS 8737 | | | | | | | | | | Total Damage 3145.29m in 100h | | | | | | | | | | Threat Per Second 3969 | | | | | | | | | | Generated in 39s | | | | | | | | | | Template: NoMorbiii | | | | | | | | | | Priority: Unholy | | | | | | | | | | Presence: Blood | | | | | | | | | | Sigil: Virulence | | | | | | | | | | RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader | | | | | | | | | | Pet Calculation: True | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
However, when I use the proper priority, I receive the following, which proves the build in the OP's superiority:
| Ability | Total | % | Landed | Hit% | Crit% | Miss% | Average | |
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| MainHand | 608394557 | 19.1 | 135353 | 66.2 | 33.8 | 0 | 4494.9 | | | Ghoul | 384263931 | 12 | 333600 | 86.9 | 13.1 | 0 | 1151.9 | | | DeathCoil | 308982884 | 9.7 | 55326 | 65.2 | 34.8 | 0 | 5584.8 | | | BloodStrike | 248799443 | 7.8 | 68694 | 57.1 | 42.9 | 0 | 3621.9 | | | ScourgeStrikeMagical | 243062487 | 7.6 | 52413 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 4637.4 | | | ScourgeStrike | 240269385 | 7.5 | 52413 | 51.2 | 48.8 | 0 | 4584.2 | | | BloodPlague | 238918233 | 7.5 | 109664 | 66 | 34 | 0 | 2178.6 | | | FrostFever | 214415840 | 6.7 | 109663 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 1955.2 | | | Gargoyle | 171728144 | 5.4 | 35052 | 87.1 | 12.9 | 0 | 4899.2 | | | WanderingPlague | 153424953 | 4.8 | 74138 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2069.5 | | | Necrosis | 121682050 | 3.8 | 135353 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 899 | | | BloodCakedBlade | 100759813 | 3.2 | 40615 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2480.9 | | | PlagueStrike | 70742957 | 2.2 | 17471 | 60.3 | 39.7 | 0 | 4049.2 | | | IcyTouch | 54164505 | 1.7 | 17471 | 65.2 | 34.8 | 0 | 3100.3 | | | UnholyBlight | 30895344 | 1 | 55326 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 558.4 | | | Horn | 0 | 0 | 1412 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | BoneShield | 0 | 0 | 1189 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | BloodTap | 0 | 0 | 1041 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | DPS 8863 | | | | | | | | | | Total Damage 3190.5m in 100h | | | | | | | | | | Threat Per Second 4029 | | | | | | | | | | Generated in 43s | | | | | | | | | | Template: NoMorbiii | | | | | | | | | | Rotation: Rot | | | | | | | | | | Presence: Blood | | | | | | | | | | Sigil: Virulence | | | | | | | | | | RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader | | | | | | | | | | Pet Calculation: True | | | | | | | | |
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12/12/09, 7:30 PM
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#1601
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Auchindoun
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Originally Posted by Consider
Has anyone else noticed Bone Shield charges being consumed by AoEs, such as Algalon stars collapsing?
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I talked to a GM today about this. Based on his/her response, s/he acknowledged this was a known issue and is reporting this to their developers.
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12/12/09, 7:38 PM
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#1602
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Glass Joe
Draenei Death Knight
Kilrogg
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During Marrowgar I realized I was losing bone charges during bonestorm, but I never lost it walking over fires if I recall correctly.
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12/12/09, 7:40 PM
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#1603
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Malfurion
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as well as i could not get my sim to give out the numbers he got for the build he came up with, best it did for me with my gear was
| Ability | Total | % | Landed | Hit% | Crit% | Miss% | Average | | | MainHand | 551025959 | 36.8 | 127809 | 59.2 | 37.6 | 3.2 | 4311.3 | | | Ghoul | 337240369 | 22.5 | 327359 | 87 | 13 | 0 | 1030.2 | | | Gargoyle | 142523153 | 9.5 | 29879 | 87.3 | 12.7 | 0 | 4770 | | | Necrosis | 110217059 | 7.4 | 127809 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 862.4 | | | BloodPlague | 102385251 | 6.8 | 51127 | 62.2 | 37.8 | 0 | 2002.6 | | | DeathCoil | 62339279 | 4.2 | 12886 | 62.6 | 37.4 | 0 | 4837.8 | | | ScourgeStrike | 57101365 | 3.8 | 14609 | 45.3 | 51.3 | 3.3 | 3908.6 | | | BloodCakedBlade | 46886666 | 3.1 | 37180 | 96.7 | 0 | 3.3 | 1261.1 | | | WanderingPlague | 38446692 | 2.6 | 19163 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2006.3 | | | PlagueStrike | 27940336 | 1.9 | 7304 | 55.2 | 41.9 | 2.9 | 3825.3 | | | BloodStrike | 16686522 | 1.1 | 7305 | 51.2 | 45.3 | 3.5 | 2284.3 | | | UnholyBlight | 6233082 | 0.4 | 12886 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 483.7 | | | ScourgeStrikeMagical | 16861 | 0 | 14609 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 1.2 | | | FrostFever | 10248 | 0 | 7 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 1464 | | | IcyTouch | 3610 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 100 | 0 | 3610 | | | Pestilence | 0 | 0 | 1 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | DPS 4164 | | | | | | | | | | Total Damage 1499.06m in 100h | | | | | | | | | | Threat Per Second 1710 | | | | | | | | | | Generated in 41s | | | | | | | | | | Template: Unholy 17-00-54-3 | | | | | | | | | | Rotation: ej test | | | | | | | | | | Presence: Blood | | | | | | | | | | Sigil: Virulence | | | | | | | | | | RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader | | | | | | | | | | Pet Calculation: True | | | | | | | | |
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12/12/09, 8:56 PM
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#1604
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Banned
Human Death Knight
Hakkar (EU)
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I had
| Ability | Total | % | Landed | Hit% | Crit% | Miss% | Average | | | MainHand | 620721707 | 19,2 | 132901 | 59,8 | 40,2 | 0 | 4670,6 | | | Ghoul | 362581882 | 11,2 | 328961 | 86,9 | 13,1 | 0 | 1102,2 | | | DeathCoil | 310203113 | 9,6 | 48535 | 60,5 | 39,5 | 0 | 6391,3 | | | BloodStrike | 268083732 | 8,3 | 71745 | 50,4 | 49,6 | 0 | 3736,6 | | | ScourgeStrike | 256334461 | 7,9 | 53706 | 44,6 | 55,4 | 0 | 4772,9 | | | ScourgeStrikeMagical | 255092959 | 7,9 | 53706 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 4749,8 | | | BloodPlague | 244016134 | 7,6 | 110678 | 59,6 | 40,4 | 0 | 2204,7 | | | FrostFever | 208660386 | 6,5 | 110629 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 1886,1 | | | WanderingPlague | 182250347 | 5,7 | 89051 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2046,6 | | | Gargoyle | 133741202 | 4,1 | 28021 | 87,1 | 12,9 | 0 | 4772,9 | | | Necrosis | 124175714 | 3,8 | 132901 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 934,3 | | | BloodCakedBlade | 97182582 | 3 | 39890 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 2436,3 | | | PlagueStrike | 75287082 | 2,3 | 17780 | 53,8 | 46,2 | 0 | 4234,4 | | | IcyTouch | 56027498 | 1,7 | 18039 | 60,2 | 39,8 | 0 | 3105,9 | | | UnholyBlight | 31029378 | 1 | 48535 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 639,3 | | | Horn | 0 | 0 | 920 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | | DPS 8959 | | | | | | | | | | Total Damage 3225,39m in 100h | | | | | | | | | | Threat Per Second 4162 | | | | | | | | | | Generated in 78s | | | | | | | | | | Template: prova uh magic | | | | | | | | | | Priority: Unholy | | | | | | | | | | Presence: Blood | | | | | | | | | | Sigil: Virulence | | | | | | | | | | RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader | | | | | | | | | | Pet Calculation: True | | | | | | | | |
using:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
and 2h toc blood as equip,(8751 with 2h toc unholy),which character we have to use as default?
But i feel something is wrong in the sim..
Last edited by Vulo_O : 12/12/09 at 9:05 PM.
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12/12/09, 9:06 PM
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#1605
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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@EmoKiller: You messed up putting in the rotation. His numbers for such a spec were accurate and in line with what I could reproduce, his Epidemic numbers were simply off (due to using priority).
@Vulo: Without Reaping and without Dirge you generate
10 (PS) + 10 ( IT) + 10 (BS) + 10 (BS) + 15 (SS) + 10 (HoW) + 15 (SS) + 10 (BS) + 10 (BS) + 15 (SS) = 115 RP.
Dirge will increase that by 20 (1xPS, 3xSS), or 17.4% more damage from runic power.
Morbidity will increase the damage done from that RP by 10% (with two points).
Dirge is the clear winner (unless you're generating tons of RP from AMS and such), especially once you hit the Reaping point. Anything to the contrary is the simulator messing up, somehow.
I am getting similar results with the sim showing no dirge to be better. It does so while showing less DC damage by taking Morbidity (which is what logically makes sense, but if that's the case, it shouldn't be doing more overall dps, as nothing else should change). It seems to be somehow giving weight to the GCD saving (scant as it is) that no Dirge provides, which is still flawed, since the GCD saving is meaningless with you already running with plenty of extra.
Not sure what it's doing wrong, but suffice is to say, the sim isn't flawless, and this is very basic math which almost anyone should be capable of doing. I wouldn't advise no Dirge.
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