Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Death Knights

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09/10/09, 12:34 PM   #151
slant
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Drenden
I'm getting similar results from the simulator, showing 12/0/59 with epidemic and glyphed unholy blight as the superior choice by a small margin. Even if dropping epidemic and glyphing scourge strike were a small damage increase I would be wary of doing so as it would tradeoff significant AE damage capability. 3/10/58 is non-competitive.

I showed the same relationship between spec and glyph choices simulating the 4t9 set bonus. This assumes that it works in the simulator; the results output don't actually show any crits for frost fever or blood plague.

United States Offline
Old 09/10/09, 12:50 PM   #152
Grigori
Piston Honda
 
Grigori's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3 View Post
The new SS glyph doesn't work at all on the PTR.

Bone Shield's 1min cooldown should be nice with a BT macro.

I could modify the sim for 3.2.2, the new SS glyph screams for a sim .

Edit:
No Dirge on OB is a 250dps loss.
The SS glyph is worth 250dps, compared to no glyph.
Overall you do slightly less dps than now. OB isn't better anymore and the old 12-0-59 is king again.
Aside from allowing a PS+IT-to-SS substitution, the SS glyph also effectively gives 4 additional ticks of diseases over a 60-sec rotation, because the disease ticks will line up perfectly with disease reapplication at 10 ticks 30 seconds apart (instead of 6 ticks 20 seconds apart, giving 18 sec of effective disease uptime every 20 sec).

However, even with that, I don't see how you can get a 250 DPS increase from the glyph. You get one SS-for-PS+IT substitution every 60 sec. I don't think SS will do 13+k more than PS+IT to account for that kind of DPS increase. With SS in its current obliterated state, the glyph possibly won't give that kind of DPS increase even if it lets SS extend diseases indefinitely.

Offline
Old 09/10/09, 1:00 PM   #153
Yotka
Von Kaiser
 
Yotka's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Ysondre (EU)
Considering talent scaling 2-H spec (+4% 2H damage) would be superior to many talent points.

7/10/54 seems to be the way to go.

REKYUKE STFU?
Each step must carry the mark of one's blood - No one can hold a candle to me
Roudolf Khametovitch Nouriev
Vôtre score de connard prétentieux est très exactement de 95

Offline
Old 09/10/09, 1:43 PM   #154
slant
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Drenden
I simmed 7/10/54 with glyphed UB as markedly inferior (by 100DPS) to 12/0/59 with glyphed UB. It does not seem to be a competitive spec. Can you provide your templates/stats that provided a superior result?

United States Offline
Old 09/10/09, 1:58 PM   #155
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by slant View Post
I simmed 7/10/54 with glyphed UB as markedly inferior (by 100DPS) to 12/0/59 with glyphed UB. It does not seem to be a competitive spec. Can you provide your templates/stats that provided a superior result?
The poster above you said "seems", which implies a gut feeling rather than proper simming/testing.

Since it seems 12 in blood is the best, it opens up new potion usage possibilities of pop an armor potion pre-pull, then use your normal Haste potion later.

United States Offline
Old 09/10/09, 2:01 PM   #156
Grigori
Piston Honda
 
Grigori's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by Bensch78 View Post
I´ve done the numbers again with similar results.

Perhaps we should think about the possibility of the diseases dropping, before they are actually reapplied because of the exact 30 sec duration.

With Latency they will drop, before reapplied. Because of that the overall Dmg goes down. PS and IT do less dmg. Blood Plague and Frost Fever do less.

Glyph of UB is only 1.1% of my DMG actually. (12.7% DC DMG)
Disease dropping is an overall DPS increase in this case. If you reapplied the disease at the 20+latency-sec mark, the disease would tick 5+latency seconds from the previous tick (which is very close to the worst-case scenario for a refresh); if you reapplied the disease at the 30+latency-sec mark, the disease would tick 3+latency seconds from the previous tick. As long as you reapply BP first, your IT will get the RoR bonus. Over a 60-sec rotation, you effectively gain 4 ticks of disease, which is significantly more damage than you lose from no RoR bonus for PS.

Offline
Old 09/10/09, 3:45 PM   #157
Moon
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by Yotka View Post
Considering talent scaling 2-H spec (+4% 2H damage) would be superior to many talent points.

7/10/54 seems to be the way to go.
I was thinking this as well.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

7/10/54, with glyph of SS allowing for more scourge strikes in the rotation.

Offline
Old 09/10/09, 3:46 PM   #158
Moohane
Glass Joe
 
Moohane's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Thrall
Didn't we have this discussion before Ulduar opened up live? That 12/0/59 would perform better as the instance began and then with better Ulduar gear 10/61(in this case 3/10/58) would pull ahead due to better scaling?

So wouldn't the same situation apply here?

Offline
Old 09/10/09, 3:53 PM   #159
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Moohane View Post
Didn't we have this discussion before Ulduar opened up live? That 12/0/59 would perform better as the instance began and then with better Ulduar gear 10/61(in this case 3/10/58) would pull ahead due to better scaling?

So wouldn't the same situation apply here?
No, since a few talents and SS have changed since the start of Ulduar, so any previous analysis is void. Also, back then the simulator wasn't as developed so the previous results could have been faulty.

Sadly, DK talents/abilities change every few months, so past ideas are not a indication of present performance.

United States Offline
Old 09/10/09, 4:58 PM   #160
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
dr_AllCOM3's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Originally Posted by Grigori View Post
However, even with that, I don't see how you can get a 250 DPS increase from the glyph.
Originally Posted by Moohane View Post
That 12/0/59 would perform better as the instance began and then with better Ulduar gear 10/61(in this case 3/10/58) would pull ahead due to better scaling?
I used my BiS Unholy set, so there's no room for any further scaling .


Originally Posted by Antimortem View Post
I am wondering how GoD + SS glyph will fare.
I bet it will be refreshed to 21s and the SS counter won't be resetted. The SS glyph would be a waste anyway, since you have to refresh your diseases after 20s.


Offline
Old 09/10/09, 5:01 PM   #161
Mortak
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Destromath (EU)
12/0/59 simply is better than before because 3 of the 12 points aren´t completely wasted anymore.
I would be interested in a 7/10/54 vs 12/059 comparison, any specc without at least 7 points in blood doesnt seem to be viable with the new changes.

Offline
Old 09/10/09, 6:07 PM   #162
Mild Confusion
Piston Honda
 
Mild Confusion's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by Mortak View Post
12/0/59 simply is better than before because 3 of the 12 points aren´t completely wasted anymore.
I would be interested in a 7/10/54 vs 12/059 comparison, any specc without at least 7 points in blood doesnt seem to be viable with the new changes.
I completely forgot to think about that. The reason people are seeing better dps is because there are no longer wasted points in subversion to get to the better talents.

It didn't make sense to me until now.

Offline
Old 09/10/09, 6:34 PM   #163
Bensch78
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Grigori View Post
Disease dropping is an overall DPS increase in this case. If you reapplied the disease at the 20+latency-sec mark, the disease would tick 5+latency seconds from the previous tick (which is very close to the worst-case scenario for a refresh); if you reapplied the disease at the 30+latency-sec mark, the disease would tick 3+latency seconds from the previous tick. As long as you reapply BP first, your IT will get the RoR bonus. Over a 60-sec rotation, you effectively gain 4 ticks of disease, which is significantly more damage than you lose from no RoR bonus for PS.
Napkin Math:

With Epidemic und SS - Asuming BIS Ulduar Gear

You will gain approximatley 500 dmg (SS > IT + PS) - 9 dps

You will gain 2 Disease Ticks (appr. 1200 dmg each) 2400 - 40 dps

You will lose 5 Runic Power, that´s roundabout 1000 dmg. (1/8 DC+UB) - 16 dps

You will lose 10% dmg of your 2xPS (appr. 600 dmg) - 10 dps

You will loose 10% of your Blood Plague (120 dmg each x 18 ticks) 2160 dmg - 36 dps

You loose about 13 dps... These numbers are far from accurate... but there is a small dps loss...

Should your diseases drop for only 0.5 sec the impact on your Raid´s dps will be another factor.

Offline
Old 09/10/09, 6:54 PM   #164
Consider
King Hippo
 
Consider's Avatar
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Removed the Epidemic-less builds from the OP. Didn't consider the AoE implications - even if the lack of epidemic + the presence of GoSS are dps gains on single target, they aren't huge ones (<100), and the potential AoE cost just seems way too large (not just from an individual perspective, but from a raid one with EP falling), especially when you consider that is where we shine. You give up too much for too little.

The one thing I'm questioning is the possibility of 16/0/55 (similar to the old 17/0/54, except Desolation maxed). It comes down to what's superior - 1pt in Necrosis or 1pt in Dark Conviction. Previously, Necrosis won by a small margin, but now? With UB benefitting from crit (the old version didn't) and diseases benefiting from crit (obviously huge)? Might work out. Still can't swap builds in my sim, although it's likely due to user stupidity. Else wise I would test it myself.

Also, to Moon above, your build is wrong. You cannot sacrifice Wandering Plague. Well, I mean, you could, but you wouldn't want to. Not in any of the various specs being tossed around. It is that much dps on single target (let alone on multiple targets). 7/10/54 could work, but not at the cost of WP.

United States Offline
Old 09/10/09, 7:24 PM   #165
slant
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Drenden
MMO Champion changed their format recently. They fully documented the changes, but the DKsim hasn't been adjusted yet.

To load a new build in the sim, create it in MMO champion as normal, click the "export" link in the bottom right of the page, then right-click and copy the URL from "MMO Champion #1" to your clipboard. The DKsim accepts this URL.

United States Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Death Knights

Thread Tools