Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 111

Max zero · 12/14/09, 2:50 AM

Originally Posted by Liandris

Just curious, has anyone considered Shadow's Edge as a possible weapon to use pre-hard modes? I know it is not yet available, but it will presumbly be, when the next wing is released. MMO champion has its stats, though I have no idea if it's confirmed. Link below:

Shadow's Edge - Items - Sigrie

Shadow's Edge is part of the Shadowmourne questline.

Jesabelle · 12/14/09, 2:54 AM

Originally Posted by Max zero

Shadow's Edge is part of the Shadowmourne questline.

Yes, but it "only" requires 25 primordial saronite and 2 boss kills from the next wing to get. I'd like to know how it stacks up to the other pre-heroic weapons too

Sebu63 · 12/14/09, 3:02 AM

long time reader first time poster.
my english isn't good, please excuse my bad grammer and spelling.
i got the similar results with a 10 sek rotation and the following settings.

Intro :
Icy Touch retry =1
Plague Strike retry=1
ScourgeStrike retry =1
BloodStrike retry =1
BloodStrike retry =1
DeathCoil retry =0
DeathCoil retry =0
Horn retry =0

Rotation:
ScourgeStrike retry =1
ScourgeStrike retry =1
Pestilence retry =1
Blood Strike retry =1
DeathCoil retry =0
DeathCoil retry =0
Horn retry =0

Template:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...E,IpF3eO,10623

Run this template with the priority system doesn't work.
Depending on gear level, I got similar results as with the specs from the opening post.
plus, plenty of time to reapply diseases.
plus, super easy rotation.

would be kind enough to test these settings.
and tell me if i am right or where i am wrong.

Deadline · 12/14/09, 3:45 AM

What do you guys think about 3/5 Necrosis and 2/2 IUP vs. 5/5 Necrosis 0/2 IUP?
I've been thinking about switching to the 2/2 IUP, just for the convenience. Would the loss of 8% from Necrosis be an unwise decision?

Baphomette · 12/14/09, 4:05 AM

That's where I took my IUP points. So far Saurfang is the only fight that I'd rather have the last two points of Necrosis instead.

Amroo · 12/14/09, 6:40 AM

Originally Posted by Liandris

Just curious, has anyone considered Shadow's Edge as a possible weapon to use pre-hard modes? I know it is not yet available, but it will presumbly be, when the next wing is released. MMO champion has its stats, though I have no idea if it's confirmed. Link below:

Shadow's Edge - Items - Sigrie

If you gem both with 2x20 Strength you get:

22 Str, 92 Crit, 92 ArP, 0.3 weapon speed vs. the Bryntroll proc.

Taking the ilvl 245/258 stat weights, this adds up to 521 AP, which is still 100 short of the estimated AP value of the Bryntoll proc. However, as you gear up, ArP and weapon speed become more valueable, so in ICC gear Shadow's Edge might slightly pull ahead. The heroic version of Bryntoll would still be better, though.

Lyssa · 12/14/09, 7:00 AM

Originally Posted by Deadline

We know that the heroic version of Bryntroll will probably be BiS minus Shadowmourne. But at the current stage, what are people thinking about Bryntroll vs. Heroic Justicebringer? From what I can tell looking at logs - It seems like normal Bryntroll will be an upgrade over it for sure.

I posted about this a couple pages back. With current gear, Bryntroll simmed to be ~200 dps more than heroic Dual-Blade Butcher (which is the Horde equivalent) for me.

Shonassir · 12/14/09, 7:53 AM

Curious as to why the Unholy rotations seem to always start with PS or IT. I would think given the 5/5 Desolation talents that it would be better to start out with BS (to get the 5% increased damage off all attacks), then proceed with diseases. Do the diseases not receive a coefficient?

♦ Darkside · 12/14/09, 8:07 AM

1): When running up to a boss, you use IT first because you are out of melee range and can't really do anything else. PS is used second because there's no point in desyncing your runes more than necessary.
2): You'll miss out on all th +damage bonuses you get from diseases if you get desolation up first before they are.
3): It doesn't really matter, the amount of damage swings we're discussing with either implementation are minuscule (at most a few thousand in either direction) and won't make the difference over the course of an entire fight.

Shonassir · 12/14/09, 8:18 AM

IT is the only one you can apply at range, and most seem to be starting with PS. That being said, if you run in with the tank (assuming you don't have add duty), then applying Blood Strike first will give you 5% increased damage on your initial hits with those abilities, as well as 5% increased damage on every disease tick if I'm not mistaken. And pulling the best DPS means the using the best possible rotation right? It seems there is no way for this rotation to lose to a Disease first rotation unless I'm missing something more.

As you said though, it will perhaps be miniscule, but even miniscule can still help to down a boss...I know I can't be the only one who has experienced 1% wipes before and you end up thinking "if i did THAT first this wouldn't have happened".

DarkAngelus · 12/14/09, 8:53 AM

Just do the math on the first 20 seconds of a fight and you'll see.

As said Darkside you can hit earlier with IT than with BS even if you follow your tank.
You loose the 25% increased on your BS without diseases.

You gain 5% on 2 strikes and diseases for like 3 seconds ?

I really don't think it worth it.

• frmorrison · 12/14/09, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Deadline

What do you guys think about 3/5 Necrosis and 2/2 IUP vs. 5/5 Necrosis 0/2 IUP?
I've been thinking about switching to the 2/2 IUP, just for the convenience. Would the loss of 8% from Necrosis be an unwise decision?

If you consider faster run speed important (I do), that isn't a bad decision to go 2/2 IUP. However, I find I get better dps returns enchanting run speed on boots and getting 2 more points in Necrosis. Note run speed is only 8% versus 15% from 2/2 IUP.

Fugazor · 12/14/09, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Consider

That is much (much) less than what you actually gain as you approach T10 BiS.

I was calculating ilvl264 set not BiS. I also don't see much point of calculating values for BiS because there are no upgrades for BiS and thats what we use AEP for - to see upgrades.

Anyway I did some more calculations. This time I used your specs from first page and used 4 different gear sets:
- T9 = 4xT9, 282/3.6 weapon, Greatness + DC normal, ilvl245/258 gear
- T10.1 = 4xT10, 282/3.6 weapon, Greatness + DC normal, ilvl251/258 gear
- T10.2 = 4xT10, 295/3.7 weapon, DC heroic + DC normal, ilvl264 gear
- T10.3 = 4xT10, 344/3.7 weapon, DC heroic + DC normal, ilvl277 gear

Results:

Stat	T9	T10.1	T10.2	T10.3
AP	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00
STR	3.09	3.03	3.03	3.02
Crit	2.18	1.95	2.10	2.20
ArP	1.91	2.25	2.49	2.72
Exp	1.43	1.72	1.77	1.88
Haste	1.79	1.93	2.01	2.09
Agility	1.55	1.36	1.48	1.56
Hit	3.58	3.75	3.92	4.21
SpellHit	0.60	0.60	0.62	0.66
Armor	0.03	0.03	0.03	0.03

So there we go ArP value mystery solved! However putting BiS values on first page is misleading in my opinion because it will take a long time before we get there - and most likely we won't fully. I mean look at your gear, my gear, other peoples gear - we didn't managed to complete ilvl258 set. My realistic aim is Shadowmourne or at least heroic Bone Arbiter with ilvl264 everywhere plus ilvl277 item here and there.

Going back to stats values we can see that:
- STR drops a little with T10 but stays constant after, it is still best stat
- Crit and AGI drops in value when switching to T10 but then go back as you gear to catch up in BiS
- Exp value goes up with T10 and after that very slowly goes up
- ArP value goes up quite a lot when you gear up
- Haste goes up as you gear up

crazy dodo · 12/14/09, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by Shonassir

IT is the only one you can apply at range, and most seem to be starting with PS. That being said, if you run in with the tank (assuming you don't have add duty), then applying Blood Strike first will give you 5% increased damage on your initial hits with those abilities, as well as 5% increased damage on every disease tick if I'm not mistaken. And pulling the best DPS means the using the best possible rotation right? It seems there is no way for this rotation to lose to a Disease first rotation unless I'm missing something more.

As you said though, it will perhaps be miniscule, but even miniscule can still help to down a boss...I know I can't be the only one who has experienced 1% wipes before and you end up thinking "if i did THAT first this wouldn't have happened".

it all boils down to logistics

the majority of the time you will be running up to a boss to engage (yes there are a few that will spawn neutral then turn hostile)

during the running you have 2 options:
1. use IT
2. do nothing

once you're at boss you have 3 options
1. use IT
2. use PS
3. use BS

You could argue in favor of any of the 3, bottom line is you'll be casting each one of them in quick succession. If you're running to the boss there really is no argument that you will choose option 1 over doing nothing. However overall difference in damage output based on what you start a boss fight with will hardly be above 10k. If you think that's a lot in a 10 million hp fight consider an SS crit proc, or a dodge/parry or fumbling your rotation for a second and so on. It really is not worth drasticly altering your rotation over a one time damage gain. If it meant giving you a sustained dps boost then it's another story.

mustardpacket · 12/14/09, 1:18 PM

I'm checking out the recommended Multi-target/AOE rotation on the first page and noticing it doesn't sync up at all.

Initial: IT – PS – Pestilence – DnD – DC – HoW
SS – BS – BB – SS – DC – DC
SS – Pestilence – DnD – DC – HoW

The first two work well.. however, the third part doesn't have blood runes up for use at that point mainly due to it being so quick after the BS + BB phase.

Is this rotation assuming you have reaping, or should it work across the board?

If not and you're going off the recommended pre-ICC gear spec, should you just then repeat the initial opener after the second rotation part?