Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 113

Nyth_ · 12/14/09, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by Daellia

Updates on the test:

It is unaffected by Bloody Vengeance. However, it does seem to be affected by Desolation and Two-Handed Weapon Spec., as both had similar averages until I stopped casting Blood Strike, at which point Unholy's damage procs dropped to about 5-6% under those of Blood's.

It CAN be triggered by both Icy Touch and Pestilence (or more precisely, the disease application or refresh), with restrictions. One must be in melee range of and facing the target (in other words, able to attack with your weapon if you turned on auto-attack) in order for it to proc. This proc is capable regardless of whether the disease is being applied or refreshed on that target. At range, or on ranged Pestilence targets, it cannot proc. The drain is capable of double-proccing off of Plague Strike due to the application of Blood Plague, even if the target already has Blood Plague ticking (just like Pestilence and Icy Touch). I assume based on this that it can be applied by Glyph of Howling Blast as well, under the same conditions.

Thanks for all the testing so far.

Can it proc from Necrosis damage? I think I read somewhere (could be this thread) that it didn't, but since you were diving into it I figured I'd ask. If it does proc from Necrosis I guess it would be just as, if not more attractive for DK than for retri paladins.

EDIT: Ah i just found it. Fearlezz 2 pages back said it didn't.

Daellia · 12/14/09, 6:45 PM

Thanks for all the testing so far.

Can it proc from Necrosis damage? I think I read somewhere (could be this thread) that it didn't, but since you were diving into it I figured I'd ask. If it does proc from Necrosis I guess it would be just as, if not more attractive for DK than for retri paladins.

It does not, as you found. However, it is still quite attractive.

Also, another thing I just noticed: the drain can be partially resisted, though I've yet to see a full resist. I'll go beat on a pally with SR up for a while and see if I can dig one out.

xstrungoutx · 12/14/09, 7:01 PM

This was 2 minutes on a boss dummy with Bryntroll and my spec (kept reaping) and Fury / Nobles

As you can see it became 7% of my DPS. The proc, for those who do not know, is Drain life. I was not buffed during these parses.

neomasterc · 12/14/09, 7:40 PM

Originally Posted by Deadline

What do you guys think about 3/5 Necrosis and 2/2 IUP vs. 5/5 Necrosis 0/2 IUP?
I've been thinking about switching to the 2/2 IUP, just for the convenience. Would the loss of 8% from Necrosis be an unwise decision?

It really depends. Most of the time run speed is not an issue, and the dps loss of running is pretty short, as you usually stay in a general area during the fight. However, I've been considering taking 3/3 Morbidity, 2/5 Necrosis. The single target dps loss from moving necrosis is insignificant compared to the many aoe situations needed in ICC (I know that theres an AOE spec, but for those of us who doesnt have the luxury of taking 2 unholy dps specs). As for IUP, when run speed trully becomes an issue, I usually pop BT and switch presences while I'm running. I also carry swiftness potions with me so that IF something unexpected happens, I could use it.

neomasterc · 12/14/09, 7:43 PM

Originally Posted by xstrungoutx

I have been very happy with Bryntroll thus far, but I still have not seen how bad our SS nerf is on paper. Are any DK's out there losing to Blood or Frost yet? Right now I can say I have not. Also I am running Fury of the five flights and Nobles. I picked up the Needle Scorpion today. Does anyone think this will pull ahead of Fury? I know Rawr is not perfect but it has it above the Fury

SS nerfs are pretty significant. My SS crits (shadow+physical combined) have approximately added up to 13k raid buffed, whereas it was ~15k shadow unbuffed on dummies.
Someone did a calculation in earlier portions of this thread. I recall it ended up being a ~10% dps nerf overall.

Mendoza · 12/14/09, 7:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sash

Thats because recount is only counting the Physical portion of the strike and not the shadow. (or vise versa) and not both.

No, currently autoattack is outdamaging scourge strike, at least at t9 gear levels on Saurfang. I had 24.5% melee damage, 11.2% SS (physical) and 11.4% SS (shadow). Which still put SS way ahead of any other ability anyway, DC was way behind on 11.8% even with GoDD.

Bonecaller · 12/14/09, 8:02 PM

Originally Posted by neomasterc

SS nerfs are pretty significant. My SS crits (shadow+physical combined) have approximately added up to 13k raid buffed, whereas it was ~15k shadow unbuffed on dummies.
Someone did a calculation in earlier portions of this thread. I recall it ended up being a ~10% dps nerf overall.

Well, i simply took my damage on Saurfang from Wednesday. I had about 30% SS damage, my shadow crit part was about 12.1% of overall damage. So the nerf will roughly be a 6% dps loss for my actual (not so bad) gear and will lower SS damage by about 20%.

I don't see it coming close to 10%, but it' pretty heavy. I think that UH will be falling single target far behind rogues, warriors and even other speccs like blood and frost.

♦ Darkside · 12/14/09, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bonecaller

I don't see it coming close to 10%, but it' pretty heavy. I think that UH will be falling single target far behind rogues, warriors and even other speccs like blood and frost.

I doubt it, pre-nerf Unholy was parsing about 2k DPS higher than Frost and 1K higher than Blood on Saurfang. Assuming what you say is true and the nerf ends up being ~6% DPS loss, Unholy will be marginally better than Blood and still greatly superior to Frost on single-target damage alone.

Amroo · 12/14/09, 8:16 PM

Originally Posted by Darkside

I doubt it, pre-nerf Unholy was parsing about 2k DPS higher than Frost and 1K higher than Blood on Saurfang. Assuming what you say is true and the nerf ends up being ~6% DPS loss, Unholy will be marginally better than Blood and still greatly superior to Frost on single-target damage alone.

A 6% loss is pretty much what I was estimating after comparing the pre-nerf and post-nerf SS(shadow)-SS(physical) ratio in my parses. Considering that the assassination rogue and me were leading the meters by 10-15% pre-nerf, Unholy should still be more than competitive. The only question remaining is how it scales compared to other classes and specs with 264/277 gear.

♦ Darkside · 12/14/09, 8:19 PM

Originally Posted by Amroo

A 6% loss is pretty much what I was estimating after comparing the pre-nerf and post-nerf SS(shadow)-SS(physical) ratio in my parses. Considering that the assassination rogue and me were leading the meters by 10-15% pre-nerf, Unholy should still be more than competitive. The only question remaining is how it scales compared to other classes and specs with 264/277 gear.

Given the nature of the new SS, it is my understanding that Unholy will scale better than most other classes/specs, especially with the proliferation of ArPen on the new ICC gear. At this moment, I can't think of any reason why Unholy would fall behind Frost/Blood in the current tier of content.

lancelol · 12/14/09, 8:41 PM

I have been going through my guilds WMOs & I have come up with some "interesting" numbers.

Here is a WMO for Lord Jaraxxus (pre 3.3)
WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay)
Having an average of 7,108 topping out at a 10,734 while not being to awesome it was not to bad either.

Now lets jump to 3.3 (the 24 hours of win)
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
No need to post average numbers here, it was too good.

And now 3.3 after the hot fix.
WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay (shadow)
WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay) (physical)
Average 7,865 & topping out on 13,136 (this is just the highest crits added together)

Keeping in mind the bare minimum of hit is just about 3000 for the old SS and put together its the same for the new SS.

So while coming out better at least pr. average numbers I am wondering if the old SS would simply not be better? I mean considering being dependent now on the other scrubs in the raid mainly thinking sunders here. and switching targets etc. Basically being much more dependent on raid buffs/debuffs while we can scale a bit better on a single target we are still coming a bit short on SS, I personally have no valid idea how to make SS a fair bit better without being 3.0 (24 hours of win) overpowered, maybe buffing the scourge strike damage a wee little bit. On a more personal note is watching 2500ish non crit and 6k crits, it's depressing.

I realise that SS will continue to scale with gear and will end up being better, which I am certainly looking forward to, having ArP a worthwhile stat now makes me pretty cheerful.

Take heart my dear fellows SS might seem worse (pr. the numbers you see popping up) but it is in fact a little bit better. Which is a comfort in these hard times. And while I reckon the old SS being better on a fights where you gotta change target a lot, it is indeed better on a single target.

Now for a question, have we found out why haste has gone up in value, here I specifically think in regards to cloak enchant.
I remember reading Consider being confused by this as well, and would like to know if anyone got an answer as to why the sims comes out with haste beating agility.

Lamperouqe · 12/14/09, 8:57 PM

Originally Posted by lancelol

Now for a question, have we found out why haste has gone up in value, here I specifically think in regards to cloak enchant.
I remember reading Consider being confused by this as well, and would like to know if anyone got an answer as to why the sims comes out with haste beating agility.

Isn't it because we lost FF crits lowering the value of crit and picked up Necrosis increasing the value of haste? It ain't about hastened GCD's anymore for sure though. Haste will also scale better with gear and crit will lose it's value more once you drop 4pct9.
I simmed my EP values with the 17/0/54 single target spec and got:
Agility 1.44
Haste 1.61

Edit: Oh yes, forgot to include the most important factor, Scourge Strike not double dipping into crit after the hotfix.

nerdfuel · 12/14/09, 9:02 PM

Originally Posted by lancelol

I remember reading Consider being confused by this as well, and would like to know if anyone got an answer as to why the sims comes out with haste beating agility.

The reason is most likely because SS can't double crit anymore, SS is doing less of our overall damage, and we picked up Necrosis. Since our SS is doing less damage it means our Ghoul, Melee, BCB, and Necrosis is doing a larger percent of our damage.

xstrungoutx · 12/14/09, 11:02 PM

The first night of ICC I was leaps and bounds above my dw and blood Dk's. Now I am beating them by about 300 - 1000 dps with loads more damage done still. I was able to do this on Saurafang and Deathwhisper as Unholy and both fights with Bryntroll. I do not have a number for how much the nerf hurt us but I can say it is still very viable.

deathsythe · 12/15/09, 12:21 AM

I've tried searching through the thread and it's possible I looked over this. My question is about some of the DK's I see using GoSS for extending Diseases on the target. Is the thought process behind this that you do not need GoD because you can just use GoSS to extend diseases and then pest to put them on additional targets as needed, then you can pickup Reaping for the additional SS instead of IT, PS for more damage. Sorry for this not being my forte and I know that it's possible I missunderstand the use or what the users of GoSS are going for. Thanks for any enlightnment on the subject.