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12/18/09, 10:01 AM
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#1801
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Sisters of Elune
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I don't think this was pointed out and seems a little stupid to me, but why do we use Glyph of Icy Touch over Glyph of Plague Strike? They both give the same benefits as far as damage increase, but don't we have more talents that would make the GoPS more valuable as a percentage in damage increase?
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12/18/09, 10:02 AM
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#1802
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
Kroot
Orc Death Knight
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by OryionSoE
I don't think this was pointed out and seems a little stupid to me, but why do we use Glyph of Icy Touch over Glyph of Plague Strike? They both give the same benefits as far as damage increase, but don't we have more talents that would make the GoPS more valuable as a percentage in damage increase?
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Because PS accounts for a tiny portion of your damage while FF contributes about 6-7% (not counting WP)?
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Originally Posted by Fric
ginger booty get on with yo bad self
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12/18/09, 10:28 AM
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#1803
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Piston Honda
Pandaren Monk
Bleeding Hollow
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The big difference is that GoPS is strike damage, GoIT affects the disease damage. The name of GoIT is a bit misleading now, think of it as Glyph of Frost Fever.
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12/18/09, 12:02 PM
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#1804
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Durotan (EU)
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Originally Posted by Nahela
I think this is one of those points that will be up for debate without any clearcut answers. It's really a matter of what you want to look at. For primarily single target fights UB without Morbidity is only going to come at about 0.7-0.8% of your total DPS, which is about baseline for a single point talent. If you look at your data for an entire night, it's most likely going to come in somewhere around 0.2-0.4%.
Is it worth it compared to the alternatives? Yes. Is it going to give you amazing returns on your overall DPS? No.
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When you play with 0/3 Morbidity and are wondering, if you should put that one point from UB to Morbidity, I'd suggest you don't. 1 Point in UB yields a flat 10% Dmg increase to Death Coil Damage done, that means it's 10% dmg vs. 5% dmg and 5 secs of the DnD cooldown. Now, decreasing DnD to a cooldown of 25 seconds is quite lackluster, since you won't be able to draw any benefit from this CD reduction, same goes for 2/3 Morbidity. You would reduce the CD to 15 secs and, though being a little bit more flexible, not really be getting anything out of it. So compared to Morbidity, it's superior in my opinion.
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12/18/09, 12:44 PM
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#1805
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Piston Honda
Human Paladin
Doomhammer (EU)
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Originally Posted by Ebonplague
When you play with 0/3 Morbidity and are wondering, if you should put that one point from UB to Morbidity, I'd suggest you don't. 1 Point in UB yields a flat 10% Dmg increase to Death Coil Damage done, that means it's 10% dmg vs. 5% dmg and 5 secs of the DnD cooldown. Now, decreasing DnD to a cooldown of 25 seconds is quite lackluster, since you won't be able to draw any benefit from this CD reduction, same goes for 2/3 Morbidity. You would reduce the CD to 15 secs and, though being a little bit more flexible, not really be getting anything out of it. So compared to Morbidity, it's superior in my opinion.
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This is simply a case of comparing apples and oranges. If you're aiming for optimal single target DPS (appling, if you will), you should pick UB. But claiming Morbidity essentially does nothing when you're hitting multiple oranges, you're just mistaking opinion with doing it wrong. Unless, of course, you found a way to maintain the optimal AoE cycle in the OP without morbidity?
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12/18/09, 1:18 PM
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#1806
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Durotan (EU)
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Originally Posted by mofidik
This is simply a case of comparing apples and oranges. If you're aiming for optimal single target DPS (appling, if you will), you should pick UB. But claiming Morbidity essentially does nothing when you're hitting multiple oranges, you're just mistaking opinion with doing it wrong. Unless, of course, you found a way to maintain the optimal AoE cycle in the OP without morbidity?
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I'm just saying that you don't really much gain anything from drawing one point out of UB and putting it in 0/3 Morbidity to make it 1/3. Same goes for 2/3 and Glyph of disease, how would that 5 sec CD reduce from 3/3 morbidity benefit you in a 20 second rotation? The only real benefit you would draw from it are the 5% increased DC damage. The only scenario where I'd see a use for the CD reduction would be a fight where adds spawn in such a rapid succession (10-15 sec) that you really can't stick to any real rotation at all.
Last edited by Ebonplague : 12/19/09 at 7:59 AM.
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12/18/09, 2:02 PM
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#1807
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Blood Furnace
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For those of us who can't afford to have one spec for single target and another for AE, what's the ideal multi-purpose spec once you're at the point where you can use reaping? (2pT10 and/or several pieces of ICC).
I'm currently using Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (switching two points from Necrosis to Morbidity for the D&D cooldown)
However, with the 14/0/57 single target spec, do you still use the two points from Necrosis?
Thanks.
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12/18/09, 11:36 PM
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#1808
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Gorgonnash
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has anyone tested the new sigil yet?
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12/19/09, 12:45 AM
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#1809
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Windrunner
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Originally Posted by trixta
has anyone tested the new sigil yet?
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I have a hard time wanting to buy that sigil right away, complete opposite of the case with Virulence. That was a huge upgrade, this is not so much. 19 STR isn't much that I am worrying about right now, when it would be a way better Emblem of Frost investment to get the T10 4-Piece and Primordial Saronites.
In the end, it is a DPS gain on some fights, which when our other stronger priorities are fulfilled, I will end up getting it, for fights where I know that I can keep the 219 STR up full time. Till the end, I just don't see it being worth the Frost Emblems this early in the patch.
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12/19/09, 12:54 AM
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#1810
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King Hippo
Draenei Death Knight
Dragonblight
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There's really nothing to test about it, as nothing about it is ambiguous. It does exactly what it says, and is a slight upgrade (some of the time) because of that.
There's no "ideal" multi-purpose spec. It's a matter of how much single target dps you're willing to sacrifice for AoE dps, and vice versa. Although, true, there is a point where you can minimize the sacrifice of one while maximizing the sacrifice of the other, it's truly an impossible state to calculate, due to the fact that AoE talents can't be labeled as "X%" dps increases like single target talents.
Ultimately, it's just a matter of opinion. Personally, I would advise simply taking two points from Necrosis and putting them into Morbidity, as that's really all it takes. Yes, that's the same as the AoE spec... but you really can't change anything less. Although, honestly, after running without it for a week, I've found 0/3 Morbidity to work just fine (aside for fights like FC/Gunship, which are laughable anyways), but I'm sure some people wouldn't be able to stand it. Still, on paper, the best balance is simply shifting those two points, to my eyes.
On another note, I corrected the 2P T10 weight in the OP. Although it wasn't wrong before (it was perfectly accurate on how I had done it), I did make an error; I did it using a non-Reaping build. Considering at that point you're changing over to Reaping, that obviously makes no sense, and have corrected it as such. I'll probably change the set table to be identical to the regular stat weight table, in the sense that it's differentiated by tier, as the values change drastically (particularly w/ and w/o Reaping).
Last edited by Consider : 12/19/09 at 1:02 AM.
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12/19/09, 7:20 AM
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#1811
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Barthilas
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Hi Consider,
Have a question. You included the weapon speed stats value, but im not really sure if it means the faster the better of the slower the better. for example a 3.50 vs 3.60.
Like the new ICC 10 Saurfang weapon, Ramaladni's Blade of Culling vs Dual-Blade Butcher(normal Version).
Ignoring the equip stats on it such as Exp, crit or Arp, Which do you think is better juzt by looking at the weapon speed and weapon dps?
Im not really sure about how weapon speed will affect the dps except for maybe necrosis.
Thanks in advance for answering my doubts.
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12/19/09, 9:18 AM
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#1812
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Von Kaiser
Human Death Knight
Cenarion Circle
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Is Reaping really worth taking for an AE spec? You can't use the death runes in the AE rotation so it doesn't seem worth it.
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12/19/09, 10:34 AM
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#1813
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Blood Furnace
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Originally Posted by Consider
There's no "ideal" multi-purpose spec. It's a matter of how much single target dps you're willing to sacrifice for AoE dps, and vice versa. Although, true, there is a point where you can minimize the sacrifice of one while maximizing the sacrifice of the other, it's truly an impossible state to calculate, due to the fact that AoE talents can't be labeled as "X%" dps increases like single target talents.
Ultimately, it's just a matter of opinion. Personally, I would advise simply taking two points from Necrosis and putting them into Morbidity, as that's really all it takes. Yes, that's the same as the AoE spec... but you really can't change anything less. Although, honestly, after running without it for a week, I've found 0/3 Morbidity to work just fine (aside for fights like FC/Gunship, which are laughable anyways), but I'm sure some people wouldn't be able to stand it. Still, on paper, the best balance is simply shifting those two points, to my eyes.
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Interesting. In that case, would you suggest simply sticking to a single target spec if we can't use both specs for PvE?
It would make sense since our AE is already pretty strong even without any points in Morbidity, but our single target isn't as strong.
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12/19/09, 11:38 AM
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#1814
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Piston Honda
Troll Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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Originally Posted by Takanit
Interesting. In that case, would you suggest simply sticking to a single target spec if we can't use both specs for PvE?
It would make sense since our AE is already pretty strong even without any points in Morbidity, but our single target isn't as strong.
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Our single target DPS is just fine by what i've experienced so far.
The question here is, do you want to give up comfort for some more dps.
The answer to that is very personal, the dps gain isn't huge; 8% extra white damage minus 10% death coil damage. If your white dps is about 25% of total, and DC+UB about 15% of total, than its 2% dps vs 1.5% dps respectively. (I'm unsure of the actual numbers, but the fact remains the difference isn't large).
This topic is designed to give you the optimal spec for your role. Min/max plays a big role in that and that 0.5% extra dps from my example is 0.5% extra dps. It's for people themselves to make the choice: "Do I want the 10 second reduction on DnD". It's not vital, but it's convenient, because a 20 second cooldown just fits better in your rotation.
It also depends on your current situation; if your guild has everything on farm, than the extra AoE in the greater picture might just speed things up, now that the trash has returned. If your guild however is learning or having trouble on a fight like Saurfang, you might want to opt for that optimal single target spec. It's pure preference and situation specific, its the same question why people still spec DW frost whereas blood and unholy both are better across most fronts.
Consider can't cover all those bases, it's for people's own insight to fill in their spec. And I think it's a bit of a shame most people just take the content of the OP as a golden rule rather than a guideline, if you don't know what your spec is about or fill it in to your own liking you're always missing out an aspect of the game.
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12/19/09, 11:47 AM
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#1815
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Evolord
... question about weapon speed..
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Since our strikes are based off of weapon damage, slower weapons tend to hit slightly harder (ie., a 3.50 and a 3.60 of the same weapon DPS will lead to the 3.60 weapon hitting slightly harder on strikes).
With regards to the single target DPS, behind muti rogues, Unholy DKs are generally close to the top of the charts. As Nyth stated, the points in Morbidity are of convenience to AoE since the 20 DnD reduction helps make the AoE rotation fit nicely, but as previously pointed out, necrosis is a slightly better investment point for point on a single target DPS basis.
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