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Old 12/19/09, 12:21 PM   #1816
Liandris
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
<N/A>
Kul Tiras
In ICC so far, I haven't encountered a situation in a boss fight where I need to drop more 2 or more DnDs in a row. So for the first 4 bosses at least, I don't see the value of taking morbidity just to reduce your DnD CD.

Marrowgar: No real need for DnD; at most you drop one when the boss is whirlwinding
Deathwhisper: At most you are able to drop one DnD as the adds die fast
Gunship: As Melee you would typically be in the Attack team, in which case you have only a short time to help out on adds before having to jump across - so at most one DnD too
Saurfang: DnD is useless here

Since the only other function of Morbidity is to increase DC damage, and it is already established that it is inferior to other talents in terms of the % dps increase it provides, it isn't useful to take it in ICC.

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Old 12/19/09, 1:13 PM   #1817
rh8452
Piston Honda
 
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Worgen Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
I would think if you were restricted to a single spec and wanted to get the maximum amount of AOE DPS potential with a minimum amount of ST DPS loss, you'd use 14/0/57 but not take epidemic, use GoSS instead of GoDD, then shift the two epidemic points into morbidity. Your total loss would be at most 5% death coil damage traded for 10s cooldown off DnD, so if DC/UB was 15% of your DPS, your net loss would be about 0.75% DPS doing this. I believe necrosis comes out to about 1% per point.

ed: Assuming you're DPSing adds with a 15 second or shorter lifespan.

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Old 12/19/09, 9:12 PM   #1818
okkita
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
I have a hard time wanting to buy that sigil right away, complete opposite of the case with Virulence. That was a huge upgrade, this is not so much. 19 STR isn't much that I am worrying about right now, when it would be a way better Emblem of Frost investment to get the T10 4-Piece and Primordial Saronites.

In the end, it is a DPS gain on some fights, which when our other stronger priorities are fulfilled, I will end up getting it, for fights where I know that I can keep the 219 STR up full time. Till the end, I just don't see it being worth the Frost Emblems this early in the patch.
You can always buy it at the beginning of the raid and then sell it and buy it again in 2 hour cycles.

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Old 12/19/09, 10:03 PM   #1819
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by okkita View Post
You can always buy it at the beginning of the raid and then sell it and buy it again in 2 hour cycles.
While is a decent idea, since Frost Badges are hard to obtain I wouldn't suggest someone to do that for the risk of forgetting to return it and missing better upgrades.

On a glyph note, I am surprised so many DK have Glyph of Scourge Strike over Glyph of IT in raiding guilds.

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Old 12/19/09, 11:08 PM   #1820
stampy
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
<GLA>
Executus
Keep in mind that 10% from UB is strictly better than the 10% from 2/3 morbidity (excluding value of -- most other damage modifiers are additive, UB is multiplicative, after all other bonuses.

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Old 12/20/09, 3:08 AM   #1821
Deadline
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by okkita View Post
You can always buy it at the beginning of the raid and then sell it and buy it again in 2 hour cycles.
That is something I haven't thought about, knowing me I'd probably forget to return it within the 2 hours. Shouldn't be hard though, I believe there is an Emblem of Frost vendor just to the right as you zone into ICC. Currently, I'm thinking that the sigil competition will go something like this:

Marrowgar: Virulence (Whirlwind phase would probably result in the new sigil being a DPS loss, although it could be a DPS gain depending on how many Whirlwind phases your guild gets)
Deathwhisper: Virulence (unless for some reason your guild has you on Deathwhisper full time)
Gunship: Virulence (Downtime on mobs, or heading over to the other ship)
Saurfag: Hanged Man (Haven't seen a strat yet where you can't be on Saurfang the whole fight)

I'll have to start timing our clears to get an idea of what my options are for the buying and then reselling idea.

Edit: ToC Bosses
Beasts: Virulence (Crash and Burrows would probably result in DPS loss)
Jarraxus: Hanged Man (Should be able to keep it up full time)
Faction Champs: Hanged Man (Should be in range of at least something to hit)
Twins: Hanged Man would be my vote (Stacks would fall off during Vortex, but that is usually only a couple times, so overall I believe that would be a DPS increase)
Anub: Virulence (Although, you could probably make Hanged Man work)

Last edited by Deadline : 12/20/09 at 3:18 AM.

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Old 12/20/09, 4:48 AM   #1822
Sfxbogdandk
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Bronzebeard (EU)
Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
Twins: Hanged Man would be my vote (Stacks would fall off during Vortex, but that is usually only a couple times, so overall I believe that would be a DPS increase)
Bone Shield+AMS+ IB = you can take vortex without swiching (that is if u have good enough healers)

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Old 12/20/09, 5:59 AM   #1823
Bonecaller
Banned
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zuluhed (EU)
Originally Posted by EdG3 View Post
I too have had somewhat similar results when I entered my stats into the sim. I did also change the rotation to match the new single target rotation without reaping.

AttackPower | 1 (0.58 DPS/per AP)
Strength | 3.14
Agility | 1.31
CritRating | 1.83
HasteRating | 2.31
ArmorPenetrationRating | 1.9
ExpertiseRating | 2.31
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 3.86
SpellHitRating | 0.99
WeaponDPS | 6.72
WeaponSpeed | 293.1
2T9 | 155.36
4T9 | 389.29
2T10 | 208.93
4T10 | 360.71
| Template | Unholy 17-00-54-3
| Rotation | UnholySSsansreaping3
| Presence | Blood
| Sigil | Virulence
| RuneEnchant | FallenCrusader / None
| RuneEnchant | FallenCrusader
| Pet Calculation | True


As you can see the result I got puts haste quite high on the EP. I'm not sure if this is an error on the sim's part or what. Can anyone use my stats and try to see if they can replicate the result?
Note: I have since tried to optimize my gear using the above result to see if I can see an increase of dps in live.
So i tried it twice with 4pt10set bonus, reaping and my current gear+t10 (giving me some more ARP) - and i also got pretty good results for haste. Both simulations were about a very long time (2000 hours). Talent built was without Morbidity, but with 2/5necrosis, reaping and BCB.

My first simulation was:
AttackPower | 1 (0,62 DPS/per AP)
Strength | 3,13
Agility | 1,29
CritRating | 1,94
HasteRating | 2,71
ArmorPenetrationRating | 2,26
ExpertiseRating | 2,32
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 3,68
4T9 | 391,53
2T10 | 325,42
4T10 | 416,95

My second was:
AttackPower | 1 (0,62 DPS/per AP)
Strength | 3,13
Agility | 1,29
CritRating | 1,94
HasteRating | 2,74
ArmorPenetrationRating | 2,26
ExpertiseRating | 2,26
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 3,65
4T9 | 386,67
2T10 | 320
4T10 | 410

So Haste is very highly valued with Necrosis and BCB in both cases. Crit looks somewhat worse.

I consider this very important, since this could radically change our itemization. But i think, it might be only a bug of the simulator, getting suddenly such good results.

Last edited by Bonecaller : 12/20/09 at 9:11 AM.

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Old 12/20/09, 9:02 AM   #1824
Cavsgt
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Draka
I have been reading this forum for some time and have used the talent spec's and glyphs on my DK. I have dual spec's so I made 1 for the single target rotation and 1 for the mutli target because of using the different glyphs. I have fairly good armor but seem to have a problem getting my DPS passed 4100. My question is in a raid it seems there are trash mobs that need AoE and bosses that need single target. Do I just switch talents as needed for each fight?

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Old 12/20/09, 9:26 AM   #1825
RandyMack
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Bleeding Hollow
Having an AOE spec and a single target spec is not needed as of yet. Three of the bosses should be single target for us and the gunship is 50/50 on what you will be doing. I would suggest just sticking with a single target spec until the next wing comes out.

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Old 12/20/09, 10:49 AM   #1826
okkita
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by RandyMack View Post
Having an AOE spec and a single target spec is not needed as of yet. Three of the bosses should be single target for us and the gunship is 50/50 on what you will be doing. I would suggest just sticking with a single target spec until the next wing comes out.
All plague and blood wing bosses are also strictly single target. Sindragosa is single target. Deathwhisper's trash dies way too fast, has very annoying spell invulnerabilities and are tanked too spread out for AOE to be useful there either. AOE could be good for Valithria, but you´re gonna be focusing the burning skeletons ASAP anyways. We know nothing about the Lich King's fight.

In ICC, you'd only want to use a specialized AOE spec on trash, which is not little use as it helps getting faster clears.

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Old 12/20/09, 11:02 AM   #1827
Nyth_
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by RandyMack View Post
Having an AOE spec and a single target spec is not needed as of yet. Three of the bosses should be single target for us and the gunship is 50/50 on what you will be doing. I would suggest just sticking with a single target spec until the next wing comes out.
That is assuming that you discard trash (I know it's little and mostly trivial, but its still there) and heroics.

I agree though if you want to min/max with 1 spec you should go for the single target. But giving up 5% Deathcoil damage (changing DD glyph to SS glyph and swapping 2 points in epidemic for 2/3 morbidity), for a build that allows you to perform very well in both AoE as Single target situations is a choice a lot of people prefer to make.
Giving up 60-90 dps on a single target fight for up to several hundreds of dps on AoE.

Again though, this is a personal choice, and this guide/forum is mostly about optimal specs for given conditions.

EDIT:

In ICC, you'd only want to use a specialized AOE spec on trash, which is not little use as it helps getting faster clears.
True, but the same can be said about the single target spec. How much use is that extra 60-90 dps once you have all bosses on farm ?

Last edited by Nyth_ : 12/20/09 at 12:25 PM.

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Old 12/20/09, 12:32 PM   #1828
Kaveli
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Area 52
GoD proposition

(no spell check at work so bare with me)

I would like to propose GoD be considered for BiS for single target glyph's under a certain condition that seems to be very frequent in ICC thus far.

Most the known fights (first 4) are single target fights with some target switching involved where the targets are usually within pestilence range.

examples.
lord marrow- You pest to get diseases out just as bone spikes go out so it hits one if it goes to melee.
lady d- pest the 3 pack of mobs that come out to increase dps
gunship- a lot of mobs in close proximity to spread diseases
deathbringer- lining up ur pest to get the blood beasts I found to improve my dps and help casters burn them down faster with the debuff up right away.

Simple logic is- If you gain so much from doing these things why not glyph for disease if you may already be doing it? You're saving a gcd and you are also increasing burst potential by being able to go right into SS with a target switch. Yet none of these fights are considered major AOE fights by any means.

This may not be the case with fights to come but it seems more common to have fights now with boss + adds than just a single target fight like patchwerk.

I'm hoping this was a decent proposition.

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Old 12/20/09, 1:43 PM   #1829
Feru
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Exodar
Potential GoD bug and revised AoE rotation

Hello all. Two things: First, please excuse this potential re-posting of information; this is news to me so I’ll assume it is news to others as well. I was practicing my AoE rotation (particularly for heroic Anub) on the heroic training dummy in Darnassus and found that my GoDisease did not refresh my diseases on the heroic dummy, but pestilence did spread the diseases to the master’s training dummies nearby. My SCT registered a miss. I have 8.54% melee hit and 13.67% spell hit (including virulence). Basically, what I’m assuming is this:

Pestilence respects the spell hit cap and therefore can miss if you are under the cap. If pestilence hits your target, a second spell hit check occurs for GoDisease, and therefore GoDisease can miss despite pestilence landing.

Here is a fraps showing my pestilence landing but GoDisease missing: Download GoDiseaseMiss.wmv



Secondly, as far as the AoE rotation goes, I’m wondering if it’s worth adding a blood strike in the initial rotation for 5% more disease and DnD damage, like so:
Initial: (BS –) PS – IT – Pest – Blood Tap – DnD – DC – HoW – DC
Note that this segment is longer than the typical 10 seconds because the first rune used is tapped, also, the last DC is probably dependent on latency and haste, with 90ms I barely get it off fast enough; it is therefore probably better placed in the next segment. Also, using BS to start off provides the minor benefit of potentially proccing 2pcT9 for your first DnD.

Furthermore, the current AoE rotation rolls Blood Plague without the additional damage from RoR. For extended periods of AoE (i.e. Anub), it seems like replacing the first Scourge Strike with PS/IT for the benefit of RoR to blood plague may be worthwhile, like this:
BS – PS – IT – Pestilence – Blood Tap – DnD – DC – HoW – (DC) (Taken from above)
PS – IT – BS – BB – SS – DC – (DC)
SS – Pestilence – DnD – DC – HoW
Then continue with the rotation posted on OP.

Last edited by Feru : 12/20/09 at 4:16 PM.

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Old 12/20/09, 2:35 PM   #1830
Gollardo
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Death Knight
 
Ravenholdt (EU)
Hello. Today i got Whispering Fanged Skull trinket. Was wondering should i replace the Greatness card for it? Obviously im speced Unholy for this, this why im asking on this thread.

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