Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 133

♦ Darkside · 12/30/09, 8:09 PM

Looking at your Suarfang parse, it looks like you had a proce rate of ~13%, which agrees with the known proc rate of 11.33 (2 PPM), The average value of the hits appears to be in line with what is currently listed on the tooltip as well, so I doubt that any stealth nerf actually took place.

♦ Darkside · 12/31/09, 4:12 PM

New interesting information about the Bryntroll proc, it looks like it can trigger from disease application via pestilence. This probably doesn't change anything substantial, but I felt like it was worth pointing out for future reference.

[20:06:47.729] Onslaughtx casts Pestilence on  Deathbringer Saurfang
[20:06:48.664] Onslaughtx Drain Life Blood Beast 2928
[20:06:51.686] Onslaughtx Frost Fever Blood Beast 385 (R: 85)
[20:06:51.686] Onslaughtx Blood Plague Blood Beast 405

e: Urgh, apparently this is old news.

Saiasanc · 12/31/09, 4:53 PM

Please excuse my nubness. I have been lurking here for a few months and this is my first post. I seem to be having a problem with the rotation for single target. I am using the spec without Reaping as I don't have any T10 stuff yet. I feel like I have a pretty tight handle on the basic rotation. But more often than not I find myself waiting for RP to refresh. Usually at the beginning of the second part of the rotation. I'll hit the first SS and BS, then have to wait 3 or 4 seconds for an RP refresh before being able to hit the second SS. So it goes a little like this:

PS – IT – BS – SS – BS – DC – HoW
SS – BS – (wait 3 - 4 seconds) - SS – BS – DC – DC– (DC)

Anybody else running into this problem or have any idea why this might be happening? It's frustrating cause my diseases tend to fall off before finishing the rotation. So I know I am not getting as much DPS as I should be. It's probably something I am not doing right. I just can't figure out what. Any helpful suggestions on how to better optimize my rotation so as to be more effective? TIA for any help.

Nyth_ · 12/31/09, 7:05 PM

Originally Posted by Saiasanc

Please excuse my nubness. I have been lurking here for a few months and this is my first post. I seem to be having a problem with the rotation for single target. I am using the spec without Reaping as I don't have any T10 stuff yet. I feel like I have a pretty tight handle on the basic rotation. But more often than not I find myself waiting for RP to refresh. Usually at the beginning of the second part of the rotation. I'll hit the first SS and BS, then have to wait 3 or 4 seconds for an RP refresh before being able to hit the second SS. So it goes a little like this:

PS – IT – BS – SS – BS – DC – HoW
SS – BS – (wait 3 - 4 seconds) - SS – BS – DC – DC– (DC)

Anybody else running into this problem or have any idea why this might be happening? It's frustrating cause my diseases tend to fall off before finishing the rotation. So I know I am not getting as much DPS as I should be. It's probably something I am not doing right. I just can't figure out what. Any helpful suggestions on how to better optimize my rotation so as to be more effective? TIA for any help.

I don't really see how that should happen. Waiting 1.5 seconds before the first SS in the second half of your rotation seems obvious, but a 3-4 second wait on the second SS in the second half of your rotation seems out of place,
There should just be 10 seconds between the first and second half of your rotation, if the second half is off by such a margin than often you are messing up somewhere in the first half.

A tip could be to change your rotation to:
PS>IT>BS>BS>SS - DC - HoW
-- >SS>BS>BS>SS - DC - DC

This groups up types of runes a bit better, and the dps loss isn't really there unless you happen to end halfway into your rotation on a very very short fight. You need to switch to this when you get reaping anyway.

EDIT: Actually the next poster makes a solid argument why spreading out blood runes can help you out in a lot of aoe situations.
Unfortunately this only works until we get 2xT10. Then we have to group up the blood runes again.

------

That aside though, even IF you get this kind of delay it shouldn't post the problems you mention.

First of all, using your runes always takes a higher priority over dumping RP. If your diseases run out because you're trying to dump that 3th deathcoil you're doing it wrong.

Second of all, why don't you use that 3-4 second gap to dump some runic power. That way you don't have to do 2-3 deathcoils at the end of your rotation.
Assuming you used all your RP on deathcoil in the first half you still generate, 20 (HoW) + 20 (SS) + 10 (BS) = 50 RP, which is enough for at least 1 DC.

Aryee · 01/01/10, 7:21 AM

Originally Posted by Saiasanc

Please excuse my nubness. I have been lurking here for a few months and this is my first post. I seem to be having a problem with the rotation for single target. I am using the spec without Reaping as I don't have any T10 stuff yet. I feel like I have a pretty tight handle on the basic rotation. But more often than not I find myself waiting for RP to refresh. Usually at the beginning of the second part of the rotation. I'll hit the first SS and BS, then have to wait 3 or 4 seconds for an RP refresh before being able to hit the second SS. So it goes a little like this:

PS – IT – BS – SS – BS – DC – HoW
SS – BS – (wait 3 - 4 seconds) - SS – BS – DC – DC– (DC)

Anybody else running into this problem or have any idea why this might be happening? It's frustrating cause my diseases tend to fall off before finishing the rotation. So I know I am not getting as much DPS as I should be. It's probably something I am not doing right. I just can't figure out what. Any helpful suggestions on how to better optimize my rotation so as to be more effective? TIA for any help.

It would help to have a little more information about where this is occuring. Is it on a boss, are you exp capped and are you using any abilities which would trigger a GCD while you're consuming runes etc...

If you're looking at a dummy situation I would be suggesting going over your recount of misses/dodges. Even when at or slightly above the 2h melee hitcap it is still possible, even though it is remote, for icy touch and death coil to miss. Naturally if you aren't expertise capped then there is always the possibility of a dodge on a scourge strike, blood strike or plague strike. Dodging of these abilities can lead to uneven rune cooldowns and are multipled in the proceeding rotations as the 2 second rule is applied, and this could be a reason for your strange gap in the rotation.

If you're encountering this on a boss there a couple of other possiblities, first and formost is boss movement and falling out of melee range. If you get out of melee range for any period of time during your rune phase in your rotation you will find the amount of time that you were out of contact will be reflected in your rune cooldowns until the point where you allow all runes to be off cooldown at once, and then resume your rotation.

What I would suggest is going to a target dummy, removing everything from your bars except IT, PS, SS, BS and DC making sure they aren't macroes, dismiss your ghoul and whack on the dummy for s few minutes using the rotation:

PS>IT>BS>SS>BS>DC and only horn of winter when you have less than 40 RP after you have cast a DC.

Unlike Nyth I would not suggest using two blood strikes in a row. While it is technically only a marginal DPS loss to use two blood strikes in a row at the beginning of your rotation ( via sigil procs applying after SS to the 2nd BS ), it is more optimal to spread out the blood rune cooldowns incase of needing to use pestilence to apply diseases on boss fights ala Saurfang, Jarraxus etc

direddyre · 01/01/10, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Consider

Right now, my average SS is close to 10k. 2P T10 would bring that up to 11k.

Do we actually know yet whether SS double dips from the bonus?

On another note, is anybody able to replicate Haste values similar to Owt's? If those values are true we can start rebuilding our BiS list from scratch.

shed · 01/01/10, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by direddyre

Do we actually know yet whether SS double dips from the bonus?

That number isn't double dipped, double dipping would be if the shadow SS would get an additional 10% after getting 10% from the physical part.

Owt · 01/01/10, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by direddyre

Do we actually know yet whether SS double dips from the bonus?

On another note, is anybody able to replicate Haste values similar to Owt's? If those values are true we can start rebuilding our BiS list from scratch.

direddyre · 01/01/10, 8:50 PM

Originally Posted by shed

That number isn't double dipped, double dipping would be if the shadow SS would get an additional 10% after getting 10% from the physical part.

I am aware of that, let me phrase it differently: He assumes that it does not double dip, but do we actually know that?

neomasterc · 01/01/10, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by direddyre

I am aware of that, let me phrase it differently: He assumes that it does not double dip, but do we actually know that?

I do not believe that it double dips.
Here is the effects taken from wowhead for scourge strike
Effect #1 Normalized Weapon Damage +
Value: 800
Effect #2 Weapon % Dmg
Value: 50
Effect #3 Dummy
Value: 25
Server-side script

It seems as though the shadow portion is not part of the scourge strike, but an additional effect caused by scourge strike.
The 2pt10 bonus is a % modifier for scourge strike specifically, thus should only affect the physical portion of scourge strike.

Ekkoo · 01/02/10, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by direddyre

Do we actually know yet whether SS double dips from the bonus?

On another note, is anybody able to replicate Haste values similar to Owt's? If those values are true we can start rebuilding our BiS list from scratch.

Consider · 01/02/10, 1:40 AM

The reason Owt and Ekko are getting such high haste values is due to them doing haste calculations automatically, and due to them setting a high latency. Nothing more complex then that. If you've ever tested different amounts of latency in the sim (which I have), you'll see that it has a huge effect on the generated haste values (even when, in reality, it should have little to none, except at particularly high latency values).

Simply think about it logically; if you set latency high enough to theoretically gcd cap you, then the sim is going to place a huge value on haste, even if you aren't actually gcd capped in reality.

Run two sims, one with 100 ms, one with 200 ms. Notice the huge difference in yellow damage, which shouldn't actually change between such levels.

Unreal54 · 01/02/10, 11:45 AM

Firstly I would like to begin by saying hello! This is my first post on EJ, im pretty excited I must say. I absolutely adore this thread Consider, it is a complete summary of the spec Unholy for a DK, simply amazing. Anyways back to my original intentions.

After doing many raids with and without Bone Shield I keep on asking the same question (especially since ICC came out), is it really worth it?

Of course Im as happy as anyone to regain the extra 2% damage and not to forget the extra survivability (since after all being alive always is a dps increase) however we didnt use it pre 3.3 due to the very long cd. I find myself always seeing it on cooldown and all three charges are up. Forgive me if this has already been posted and discussed but my question is as follows;

Would it be worth dropping Bone Shield to add an extra point into Dark Conviction? As in does the static 1% extra crit outweigh the 2% damage increase? Which to me (guestimating) is roughly about 60% uptime, or even less depending on the fight.

Suggested Spec

I am not the theory crafting god amongst men like yourself Consider, so please dont waste time if this is just simply not true.

Ezekyl · 01/02/10, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Unreal54

Firstly I would like to begin by saying hello! This is my first post on EJ, im pretty excited I must say. I absolutely adore this thread Consider, it is a complete summary of the spec Unholy for a DK, simply amazing. Anyways back to my original intentions.

After doing many raids with and without Bone Shield I keep on asking the same question (especially since ICC came out), is it really worth it?

Of course Im as happy as anyone to regain the extra 2% damage and not to forget the extra survivability (since after all being alive always is a dps increase) however we didnt use it pre 3.3 due to the very long cd. I find myself always seeing it on cooldown and all three charges are up. Forgive me if this has already been posted and discussed but my question is as follows;

Would it be worth dropping Bone Shield to add an extra point into Dark Conviction? As in does the static 1% extra crit outweigh the 2% damage increase? Which to me (guestimating) is roughly about 60% uptime, or even less depending on the fight.

Suggested Spec

I am not the theory crafting god amongst men like yourself Consider, so please dont waste time if this is just simply not true.

I thought just the same thing when we had 1 minute duration of the Bone Shield. But when it comes to a 5 min duration, and the possability to refresh it w/o breaking your rotation - it becomes pretty easy to keep it up.
If you are worried about 1% crit - Consider said that crit may be attained by ICC gear + some orange str-crit gems.
Look, you can get 1 % crit from gear and gems, but you cant get 2% damage with them.

Takanit · 01/02/10, 12:01 PM

I guess the latency config is the reason I had been getting some weird haste values as well since default is 150ms.

Is 100ms generally pretty accurate for stat weights?