Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 139

Ulothar · 06/26/10, 9:06 PM

Originally Posted by Nifty01

Taking the BIS ep values.

20str gem + 21agi meta = 91,81 EP

10str/15stam gem + 6str bonus +21crit meta = 94,07 EP

The pants are an even better place to put a blue gem since the Ep loss is only 1,5EP through the yellow gem and 6,22EP through the blue gem compared to the 12,44EP loss in the chest.

conclusion: go with sovereign dreadstone + nightmare tear and crit meta.

Exactly, lots of people think that the one blue gem is a heavy DPS lose tho they do not take into consideration that the 20str gem at the place of 10str/15 is actualy only a 4Str gain (which becomes 4,68 with kings/endless winter/ravenous) and not to mention that 21 crit rating provides not only physical crit increase but also magical.

Runemaster · 06/27/10, 3:30 AM

Originally Posted by Nifty01

Taking the BIS ep values.

20str gem + 21agi meta = 91,81 EP

10str/15stam gem + 6str bonus +21crit meta = 94,07 EP

The pants are an even better place to put a blue gem since the Ep loss is only 1,5EP through the yellow gem and 6,22EP through the blue gem compared to the 12,44EP loss in the chest.

conclusion: go with sovereign dreadstone + nightmare tear and crit meta.

Actually, while you are right, you would have to move the yellow gem in the chest elsewhere for the hit to maintain the hitcap. I, for example, would move it to the yellow slot in the cloak. It doesn't matter what yellow slot, any slot with fierce ametrine will do.

That's a gain of 6 str (socket bonus) and 21 crit (new meta) for a loss of 10 haste (old fierce ametrine is now etched ametrine) and a loss of 21 agi (old meta). The EP value of the first is still greater than the second though with BiS EP values. (Other stats are affected on the individual items but everything except the net gains/losses were factored out.)

6 str + 21 crit = 18.66 + 44.31 = 62.97 EP

10 haste + 21 agi = 29.7 + 29.61 = 59.31 EP

Overall gain: Roughly 3.66 EP

Of course, technically, this gem change may very, very slightly alter stat EP values, but not much on each individual stat weight. The margin for error is thus not high enough to consider debating this increase, it's a solid increase of at least 3.5 EP.

So nightmare tear in pants and dreadstone in chest or vice versa is the way to go, but you've gotta move the etched to a new yellow slot to maintain the hitcap.

MikeMo · 06/28/10, 7:22 PM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

My burst dps is very good lately. I'm really surprised that Unholy can do that much burst damage (and the sustained damage is better than expected).
I'm not doing anything special. Use runes - Gargoyle (behind me) - ERW - Refresh diseases - Proceed as usual. It's more about the timing, there's a lot going on for the first 30s. I do not watch out for any buffs, I just assume they're up.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

I start out the fight with Army, put up diseases, haste pot, hit SS which also activates my eng glove haste enchant, then BS twice for desolation, ERW, DC once to remove excess RP and SS two more times to get my sigil STR bonus up. By this time my SM has proc'd Chaos bane, DV proc is still up, DBW proc is up, Unholy STR is most likely up and the haste pot/eng glove ench is still up and 3x stack of the sigil buff is up.

I have two questions based on the above.

1. Is getting all my buffs up as I do and then summoning my Gargoyle more beneficial than using a pre-haste pot and only having some of those procs up (no chaos bane, only 1x STR stack from your sigil, sometimes Unholy STR hasn't proc'd yet) or doing it how I outlined and not pre-haste potting and having every single buff you can possibly have up before summoning?

2. Assuming what I do is correct is me firing off a DC after ERW a good idea or should I just eat the RP?

khel · 06/29/10, 7:55 AM

You can get it done while still prepotting. Just time it correctly and it's no problem at all. Most encounters have a very clear point where combat starts, so you can prepot 1 second before engaging. Even when it's a bit risky, potting 3 seconds early will still let you complete the following:

IT, PS, BS, SS, BS, ERW, SS, SS, Gargoyle

If you can't make the last SS because you potted too early, just skip it. Using 2 potions, even if neither Gargoyle is summoned when you have the perfect buffs, is more dps than only using 1 potion.

Uevrek · 07/04/10, 5:23 PM

I've been working on the IUP build myself and posted some of my results over on SA's games forum, but I have some input on the build KC102 posted on page 137.

Of all the places you can steal points from to get 2/2 Improved Unholy Presence, Impurity has the least impact on DPS. It's not a major difference though, using the same variables and gear nets me 11005 +/- 556 DPS with 3/5 Desecration, and 11016 +/- 562 with 3/5 Impurity. Dirge is a much bigger loss, and you can't take points from anywhere else in the tree. However, the one point I found that I didn't see in his spec was to drop a point from Epidemic. Unholy Presence with IUP talented has a 9-second rune cooldown, so two sets of runes will cycle every 18 seconds. It'll be very difficult to squeeze in one extra scourge strike with the 21 second diseases and no reaping, so I moved that point to Morbidity instead. Here's the sim differences:

Sim settings: Many 360s long fights, 65 RP/45 seconds, 250 ms latency, 0% ICC buff

2/2 Epidemic

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances			Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	908663130	22.9	197069	6151.5	69888	35.4	3434.2	77825	39.4	7068.2	406	.2	49356	25	2402.4
Ghoul	463103319	11.7	458115	1347.2	284060	62	957.8	59701	13	1915.6			114354	25	670.4
ScourgeStrike	387733746	9.8	60000	6462.2	32803	54.6	3979.6	27197	45.2	9456.6	117	.2
DeathCoil	369945702	9.3	69192	5346.7	41512	60	3757.4	27680	40	7730
BloodStrike	267157533	6.7	80000	3339.5	48535	60.5	2358.1	31465	39.3	4853.2	164	.2
Gargoyle	266501236	6.7	50512	5276	43982	87.1	4673.7	6530	12.9	9332.5
ScourgeStrikeMagical	184037547	4.6	60000	3067.3	32803	54.7	1889.1	27197	45.3	4488.4
FrostFever	183254464	4.6	103163	1776.4	103163	100	1776.4									99.7
Necrosis	176546440	4.5	197069	895.9	197069	100
BloodPlague	152894098	3.9	103223	1481.2	103223	100	1481.2									100
BloodCakedBlade	139251645	3.5	59060	2357.8	59060	99.8	2357.8				119	.2
Ghoul: Claw	134915211	3.4	90000	1499.1	78188	86.9	1436.3	11812	13.1	1914.7
WanderingPlague	96228003	2.4	59412	1619.7	59412	100
PlagueStrike	82232755	2.1	20000	4111.6	10844	54.1	2521.7	9156	45.7	5994.6	33	.2
IcyTouch	68282483	1.7	20000	3414.1	11894	59.5	2391.2	8106	40.5	4915.1
Army of the Dead	45097693	1.1	330016	136.7	286881	86.9	133	43135	13.1	161
UnholyBlight	36985859	.9	69192	534.5	69192	100
DPS	11008(+/- 692)
Total Damage	3962.83m	in 100h
Total runic power used: 2887680 (176380 wasted)
Threat Per Second	7161
Generated in	33s
Template:	Unholy Sub Frost IUP Upres Dirge
Priority:	Unholy
Presence:	Unholy
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

1/2 Epidemic, 1/2 Morbidity

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances			Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	909065963	22.8	197218	6150.2	69972	35.4	3435.4	77839	39.4	7065.5	406	.2	49407	25	2402.8
Ghoul	463101851	11.6	458268	1346.8	284146	62	957.4	59718	13	1915.1			114404	25	670.4
DeathCoil	395130652	9.9	70262	5623.7	42111	59.9	3950	28151	40.1	8127.3
ScourgeStrike	349242401	8.8	54117	6453.5	29605	54.6	3975	24512	45.2	9446.9	110	.2
BloodStrike	266588373	6.7	79998	3332.4	48504	60.5	2352.1	31494	39.3	4842.3	164	.2
Gargoyle	264215412	6.6	50360	5246.5	43849	87.1	4646.8	6511	12.9	9285.3
FrostFever	188558307	4.7	105043	1795.1	105043	100	1795.1									99.5
Necrosis	176624628	4.4	197218	895.6	197218	100
ScourgeStrikeMagical	165774835	4.2	54117	3063.3	29605	54.7	1887	24512	45.3	4483.9
BloodPlague	158382333	4	105666	1498.9	105666	100	1498.9									99.9
BloodCakedBlade	139262957	3.5	59098	2356.5	59098	99.8	2356.5				119	.2
Ghoul: Claw	134911000	3.4	90000	1499	78188	86.9	1436.2	11812	13.1	1914.6
PlagueStrike	106970940	2.7	25873	4134.5	13986	54	2531.9	11887	45.9	6020	44	.2
WanderingPlague	99647484	2.5	60971	1634.3	60971	100
IcyTouch	88687759	2.2	25883	3426.5	15421	59.6	2400	10462	40.4	4939.5
Army of the Dead	45520363	1.1	335048	135.9	290929	86.8	132.2	44119	13.2	159.8
UnholyBlight	39503031	1	70262	562.2	70262	100
DPS	11087(+/- 649)
Total Damage	3991.19m	in 100h
Total runic power used: 2930480 (158020 wasted)
Threat Per Second	7229
Generated in	33s
Template:	Unholy Sub Frost IUP Upres Dirge
Priority:	Unholy
Presence:	Unholy
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

I used this 0/17/54 spec, along with the old ICC25 Heroic Gloranzelg BiS gear. Another thing I discovered comparing Blood to Unholy Presence, if you use the Tuskarr's Vitality enchant for your boots you lose the big DPS gap between a typical sub Frost build and an IUP build. Here's a sim result of the OP's DPS spec, with the enchant on the boots removed to simulate what you'd have if you used Tuskarr's instead:

Cookie-Cutter spec with Tuskarr's

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances			Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	902575151	22.6	171165	7030.4	60986	35.6	3932.9	67395	39.3	8086.7	344	.2	42784	24.9	2751.4
Ghoul	401277340	10	398791	1340.6	247338	62	953.3	51981	13	1907.2			99472	24.9	667.1
ScourgeStrike	398837684	10	53961	7391.2	29650	54.8	4565	24311	45	10838.2	110	.2
DeathCoil	337149900	8.4	52194	6459.6	31418	60.2	4543.2	20776	39.8	9357.5
BloodStrike	273926989	6.9	71948	3807.3	43869	60.9	2693.5	28079	38.9	5547.4	144	.2
Gargoyle	234763851	5.9	44664	5256.2	38916	87.1	4658	5748	12.9	9306.4
FrostFever	232205734	5.8	107331	2163.5	107331	100	2163.5									99.4
ScourgeStrikeMagical	213622253	5.3	53961	3958.8	29650	54.9	2445.6	24311	45.1	5804.4
BloodPlague	195675069	4.9	108104	1810.1	108104	100	1810.1									99.8
Necrosis	175352387	4.4	171165	1024.5	171165	100
BloodCakedBlade	138893030	3.5	51496	2697.2	51496	99.8	2697.2				104	.2
Ghoul: Claw	134228223	3.4	90000	1491.4	78188	86.9	1428.9	11812	13.1	1905
WanderingPlague	121452317	3	61482	1975.4	61482	100
PlagueStrike	84352504	2.1	18026	4679.5	9888	54.8	2888.8	8138	45.1	6855.3	27	.1
IcyTouch	74159727	1.9	18037	4111.5	10801	59.9	2889.4	7236	40.1	5935.8
Army of the Dead	41841535	1	289072	144.7	251860	87.1	142.1	37212	12.9	162.4
UnholyBlight	33720416	.8	52194	646.1	52194	100
DPS	11095(+/- 658)
Total Damage	3994.03m	in 100h
Total runic power used: 2207760 (417220 wasted)
Threat Per Second	7437
Generated in	28s
Template:	Unholy Sub Frost
Priority:	Unholy
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

Essentially, if you don't take any kind of runspeed bonus the standard build is better, but if you take any kind of runspeed bonus you should respec to 2/2 IUP and use UP instead.

Bobfred21 · 07/04/10, 9:25 PM

Originally Posted by Uevrek

Unholy Presence with IUP talented has a 9-second rune cooldown, so two sets of runes will cycle every 18 seconds.

Improved Unholy Presence doesn't extend the Runic Grace Period, it just means if you push back runes you aren't penalized by delaying your runes. That's one of the major reasons IUP isn't considered to be very good, because we don't really gain anything by taking it (other than 15% move speed in Blood/Frost Presence).

To reiterate in case I was unclear: IUP does not actually shorten your runic cool down due to the way the grace period works.

Uevrek · 07/04/10, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bobfred21

Improved Unholy Presence doesn't extend the Runic Grace Period, it just means if you push back runes you aren't penalized by delaying your runes. That's one of the major reasons IUP isn't considered to be very good, because we don't really gain anything by taking it (other than 15% move speed in Blood/Frost Presence).

To reiterate in case I was unclear: IUP does not actually shorten your runic cool down due to the way the grace period works.

This is false, and the sim doesn't support it neither does a really quick combat test against dummies. Here's what I got from a target dummy mashing scourge strike in Blood Presence:

7/4 21:50:28.005  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,7188,7187,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:50:29.585  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,3134,3133,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:50:38.457  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,3044,3043,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:50:40.283  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2842,2841,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:50:48.784  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,6582,6581,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:50:50.536  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2769,2768,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:50:58.815  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,3031,3030,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:51:00.816  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,6778,6777,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:51:08.894  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2962,2961,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:51:10.727  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,3136,3135,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

Here's what I get mashing SS in Unholy Presence, with 2/2 IUP.

7/4 21:51:36.507  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2367,2366,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:51:37.570  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,5920,5919,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:51:46.445  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,6344,6343,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:51:47.634  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,5845,5844,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:51:55.783  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,6483,6482,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:51:56.554  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2618,2617,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:52:04.351  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2605,2604,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:52:05.614  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2739,2738,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:52:13.937  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2466,2465,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:52:15.142  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,2449,2448,1,0,57,0,nil,nil,nil
7/4 21:52:22.667  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,6337,6336,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:52:23.570  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,6112,6111,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:52:31.766  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,5797,5796,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
7/4 21:52:33.258  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x05000000024D53D1,"Uevrek",0x511,0xF130007F1F0024F2,"Veteran's Training Dummy",0x10a28,55271,"Scourge Strike",0x1,5894,5893,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

In Blood presence, my first set of runes refreshes such that I can hammer out Scourge Strikes pretty consistantly on the -8 and -0 second marks, showing that even though there is a grace period the runes indeed refresh every 10 seconds. In Unholy presence though, my SSes happen at 36 & 37 seconds, then 46 & 47 seconds, then 55 & 56 seconds, 04 & 05, etc, pointing that the rune cooldown is indeed one second shorter. What this does to the grace period I didn't test, but IUP does indeed make your runes cooldown a second faster as it says on the tin.

tiesto87 · 07/07/10, 5:52 PM

Just wondering if when popping gargoyle if it is a dps gain to switch quickly to unholy presence for the added haste then back to blood after the gargoyle has been cast. I know I do this alot for pvp, but I was wondering if in pve if this is a substantial dps increase.

Thanks.

rh8452 · 07/08/10, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by tiesto87

Just wondering if when popping gargoyle if it is a dps gain to switch quickly to unholy presence for the added haste then back to blood after the gargoyle has been cast. I know I do this alot for pvp, but I was wondering if in pve if this is a substantial dps increase.

Thanks.

It was mentioned somewhere a very long while back in this thread that it is not.

You lose two runes, one blood and one unholy.

You also lose two GCDs presence swapping. During bloodlust with cooldowns and trinket procs up, those two runes plus two GCDs is one blood strike and one scourge strike that you lose, to get perhaps two or three extra gargoyle strike casts in theory. 1 BS + 1 SS non-crit at say my gear level with procs up is approximately 13-14K damage and a loss of a desolation proc plus potential FC procs or drain life/shadowmourne procs. Two gargoyle strike non-crits is generally a bit less than this, -before- counting the two GCDs lost. Even three casts would be a loss due to the GCDs lost. In PVE, it is usually not worth stance dancing for gargoyle.

edit: Gargoyle strike also has a much lower crit chance than blood strike/scourge strike, and it only crits for 1.5x damage when it does. So going by average BS/SS damage with your BS/SS crit chance taken into an account, it is mathematically a DPS loss on average.

bigdan · 07/09/10, 11:28 AM

Swapping presences doesn´t trigger the GCD.

Laraque · 07/12/10, 1:27 PM

EDIT: From BTN's & Mericet's posts below that this is an issue with the debuff showing on the boss and not the actual gargoyle doing damage. Thank you for your help.

Original Post:
I have not seen this mentioned before, but I found an odd thing in several logs regarding the Gargoyle. It is supposed to last 30 seconds but does not seem to if there are multiple DKs.

If DK-A hits Gargoyle then 10 seconds later DK-B hits Gargoyle; DK-A will get all 30 seconds while DK-B will only get 20 seconds. For some reason when DK-A's gargoyle ends it also ends the Gargoyle for DK-B.

Here is an example (time is cropped for only 1 garg cycle):
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Look at Kendari and myself, Laraque. If you select us and go to the buffs cast tab to see our Gargoyle durations and graphically where we started and they stopped.

Kendari has 29.6 seconds duration of his Gargoyle (sounds about right for a log of a 30 second duration ability) while I only got 18.8 sections (I held mine back till I had 3 SS done) and they both end at the same time.

Ladon · 07/12/10, 2:07 PM

I'm also abit confused about the "BIS" Trinkets.
According to my sims DC HC is better than the RS HC trinket. Which I found abit wierd since the BIS list states that RS HC is "the best"

These are the EP values I get from different trinkets.

EP DeathChoice | 500
EP DeathChoiceHeroic | 565,59
EP SharpenedTwilightScaleHeroic | 518,28
EP SharpenedTwilightScale | 459,14
EP DeathbringersWill | 509,68
EP DeathbringersWillHeroic | 594,62
EP WhisperingFangedSkullHeroic | 439,78

Afabar · 07/12/10, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ladon

The EP generated by the sim only give the proc value. You have to add the static EP value of the trinket.

btn · 07/14/10, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Laraque

I have not seen this mentioned before, but I found an odd thing in several logs regarding the Gargoyle. It is supposed to last 30 seconds but does not seem to if there are multiple DKs.

If DK-A hits Gargoyle then 10 seconds later DK-B hits Gargoyle; DK-A will get all 30 seconds while DK-B will only get 20 seconds. For some reason when DK-A's gargoyle ends it also ends the Gargoyle for DK-B.

Here is an example (time is cropped for only 1 garg cycle):
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Look at Kendari and myself, Laraque. If you select us and go to the buffs cast tab to see our Gargoyle durations and graphically where we started and they stopped.

Kendari has 29.6 seconds duration of his Gargoyle (sounds about right for a log of a 30 second duration ability) while I only got 18.8 sections (I held mine back till I had 3 SS done) and they both end at the same time.

There is clearly something wrong with the way WoL is parsing and displaying the combat log, but if you take a look at the expression editor (which gives you pretty good access to the uploaded log), you'll see that the zone buff fades from the summoned gargoyles 10 seconds apart, which I presume means they despawned 10 seconds apart as one would expect.

The following URL shows what I mean:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

The noteworthy part being:

[19:21:49.438] Kendari summons Ebon Gargoyle with Summon Gargoyle
[19:21:49.876] Ebon Gargoyle gains Strength of Wrynn
...
[19:22:00.312] Laraque summons Ebon Gargoyle with Summon Gargoyle
[19:22:00.702] Ebon Gargoyle gains Strength of Wrynn
...
[19:22:27.456] Ebon Gargoyle's Strength of Wrynn fades
[19:22:38.691] Ebon Gargoyle's Strength of Wrynn fades

Mericet · 07/15/10, 11:30 AM

I just tested the gargoyle issue. For some reason, the gargoyle's debuff doesn't apply to a training dummy, so you can't use that, but it does work on regular mobs (I used one of the giant skeletons on the wall North of Dalaran). The perceived problem is that when two gargoyles attack a target, it only receives 1 debuff; and when the first gargoyle finishes attacking, the debuff does drop off the enemy. However, the second gargoyle continues to attack even though no debuff is present, and does stay the full 30 seconds.

I don't know why blizzard even uses a debuff for the gargoyle - I guess maybe so you can track its target in pvp? Regardless, it doesn't change the duration of the gargoyle.

Therosian · 07/15/10, 3:56 PM

Guessing it has something to do with the Pet UI. Seeing as you can only have 1 pet at a time, the debuff was an attempt by blizzard to work around that limitation. Further backing this theory is the fact the the gargoyle responds as a pet, following the same commands that you give your ghoul. Also noted, when you change targets with your gargoyle/ghoul, your main target will lose the debuff, and the secondary target will not gain the debuff. Noticed this several times on PP when switching to the oozes.

Alas, I have no information to back these claimes up, just something that I have personally noticed.

Shaqattack · 07/17/10, 5:18 AM

Originally Posted by MikeMo

If I am wrong, please correct me.

I start out the fight with Army, put up diseases, haste pot, hit SS which also activates my eng glove haste enchant, then BS twice for desolation, ERW, DC once to remove excess RP and SS two more times to get my sigil STR bonus up. By this time my SM has proc'd Chaos bane, DV proc is still up, DBW proc is up, Unholy STR is most likely up and the haste pot/eng glove ench is still up and 3x stack of the sigil buff is up.

I have two questions based on the above.

1. Is getting all my buffs up as I do and then summoning my Gargoyle more beneficial than using a pre-haste pot and only having some of those procs up (no chaos bane, only 1x STR stack from your sigil, sometimes Unholy STR hasn't proc'd yet) or doing it how I outlined and not pre-haste potting and having every single buff you can possibly have up before summoning?

2. Assuming what I do is correct is me firing off a DC after ERW a good idea or should I just eat the RP?

You can get addons to watch the stats your gargoyle and pet gain, I use tectonic attack power and on screen stat display to show AP and haste. Then just once your talented/gear procs come up pop the haste on your gloves, blood fury, and a haste pot. With bloodlust if you're procs line up right off the bat unholy has some nice burst.

Ducka · 07/22/10, 3:38 AM

I have a question regarding empty GCDs.

My DK is my first melee character.. and I'm noticing occasionally I am only auto attacking for a few seconds waiting for SS to come up. With casters, I'm used to always having a GCD being used.

Using the rotation on the first post, I PS IT BS SS BS DC HoW > PS IT SS BS SS BS DC DC

Now, on the second part, when I get to the second SS I have to wait ~2-3 seconds for it to come up. Is this normal, or am I missing something in the rotation.

kelben · 07/22/10, 4:10 AM

I was talking with a warrior friend about his alt DK and he came up with a question I couldn't really answer. Is it worth reapplying your diseases when you have self procs trigger, ie trinkets, fallen crusader etc. I said no, but I couldn't really defend my answer when he started comparing tick differences. The best answer I could come with was by reapplying diseases you loose a SS and burn an extra GCD. Is that correct? The overall disease dmg you'd gain is not enough compensate for the SS and GCD loss.

khel · 07/22/10, 6:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ducka

Is this normal, or am I missing something in the rotation.

It's normal to have downtime in your cycle as Unholy. You just fill those gaps with either bombs if you are an engineer, or use Horn of Winter to gain some runic power, or do Blood Tap + Bone Shield if you need to refresh it. If you are smart about when to use AMS to gain runic power then you can minimize these periods of downtime.

pindle · 07/22/10, 6:54 AM

Originally Posted by kelben

I was talking with a warrior friend about his alt DK and he came up with a question I couldn't really answer. Is it worth reapplying your diseases when you have self procs trigger, ie trinkets, fallen crusader etc. I said no, but I couldn't really defend my answer when he started comparing tick differences. The best answer I could come with was by reapplying diseases you loose a SS and burn an extra GCD. Is that correct? The overall disease dmg you'd gain is not enough compensate for the SS and GCD loss.

You're not only losing a SS, your're also messing up your rotation by using F+U earlier than you should therefor clipping the diseases and losing the remaining ticks as well. Not worth it.

Lamperouqe · 08/02/10, 6:19 AM

A thing came to my mind about Pestilence on Vile Spirits. As Pestilence's range starts from where you are and not from where the target is, would I be able to spread my diseases to more Vile Spirits by jumping and Pestilencing? I know there's an urban legend about your position not refreshing on the server when you jump until you touch the ground again, so I was just wondering if anyone has any information about that being true or false and if jumping increases Pestilence's range upwards or not.

E:
Tested by dueling and trying to Pestilence the diseases from a mob and it didn't work. If the Pestilence doesn't reach from where you stand it won't even if you jump. It might've been lag or something else as well, but at least I never managed to increase the range by jumping.

E2:

Originally Posted by Jeffy on Skype

Checks made against the player only rely on X and Y coordinates. On the other hand playermade checks like determining whether or not a mob is in range actually relies on the X, Y and Z data gathered by the client itself.

In theory it should work, but the time spent in air is so small when you consider all the variables, reaction time and lag it might not be possible or Pestilence as an ability just doesn't work that way.

bsolar · 08/02/10, 8:50 AM

Originally Posted by Lamperouqe

As Pestilence's range starts from where you are and not from where the target is

As far as I remember originally Pestilence was centered on the target. Long ago, since for some very large mob it was giving problems, it was changed it so that it spreads from between the target and the DK.

Eleetmo · 08/09/10, 4:35 AM

Originally Posted by bsolar

As far as I remember originally Pestilence was centered on the target. Long ago, since for some very large mob it was giving problems, it was changed it so that it spreads from between the target and the DK.

On LK heroic I double Pest on Vile Spirits. Once standing still and once while moving LK to the other side to ensure i maximize my range. Seems to work well.

rocco1015 · 08/11/10, 3:41 PM

Originally Posted by Armagedous

Why would you waste a GCD/rune on the Vile Spirits.

To put Ebon Plaguebringer on as many vile spirits as possible, thus allowing casters to burn them down faster. It is not to pad personal dps, but raid dps as a whole.