That's what I was wondering, I can't find any official word on it at all. My guess is it's a stealth nerf, or hasn't gone live yet.

This may be a noob question but I still hope I'll get some answers. I was wondering why the 4pc t10 is such a high value. Assuming 3% extra damage will stay up during a whole encounter (which it won't), this is still a very minor advantage...

Let's say you do 8k dps by the time u get ur 4pc. 3% of 8k is 240 dps. It will also not stay up the whole time in 90% of encounters. So it really ends up being like a 150 dps increase? 8k -> 8150? I guess thats not too bad, but still don't see why it has the same value as 4pc t9, which added like 300 per fight.

I'm not being a critic, just want some insight especially since some 264 stuff, like vendor gloves, have 78 ArP instead of the mostly unneeded hit on the t10 gloves.

This is correct. However, it is also still capable off of applying or refreshing SV stacks for paladins, so it's possible that Blizz either is only halfway complete, or perhaps wasn't as serious as they sounded.

We should be pulling mid 9k to over 10k dps by the time we get 4 piece t10, probably even higher. With a reaping rotation (which you should be running by the time you get 4t10) you should almost never lose the 4pc buff unless you are affected by an encounter mechanic like Putricide Oozes. I think you are undervaluing the bonus.

I disagree. There is a very large dps DK community making logs, of them say 10% will be in a situation where they have not only received their 2 piece tier 10, but also have around 2 pieces of ICC 25 gear and 1 piece of ICC 10 gear (or whatever it may be). There are enough 'lucky' DK's imo to gleam from the logs a meaningful picture about the difference between 2t9/2t10.

@frigidchaos: I actually find the opposite of you when I look at WMO and the WoL link you provided.... The vast majority of people I've looked at have blood plague crits.

Very true, yet their dps loss was almost more than our entire dps contribution from it. It can still proc off applying their DoT, and can apparently still proc off applying ours. Assuming that this is the extent of the change, we escaped relatively unscathed, with Unholy only losing about 9-12 procables per minute, and Blood being essentially untouched.

No matter how "small" the sample is, the situation yesterday when I checked was literally that of having NOBODY aside from a russian guy (whose log was hard to check for me) using 2p10. When the sample is probably that of over 3 thousands guilds posting logs, that would be evidence in itself.

Empyrical data is ALWAYS flawed; it won't be any better in the future. If you check the top logs the top 20 always shows at least 6-7 recurring names; it's people playing the game at perfection but more importantly, it's people from those guilds that allow for top end gear. That's what I meant when I said that top gear people using 2p10 would have been interesting; players like Potlol or Consider outgear most of us so massively that even if we did bring log evidence of us performing better with 2p10 than 4p9, we probably still couldn't approach those numbers. Until someone who has the gear to make it to the very top of the performance with 4p9 shows some logs where he's competitive with those numbers using 2p10, the evidence will be probably too on the flawed side to matter.
The numbers we see on logs today seem to testify that 2p10 is indeed pulling even in some cases.


When I mentioned me wanting to try it once I get Shadow's Edge I was also considering one factor; 2p10/Reaping becoming viable is sensibly based on weapon damage. Most people using 294 dps weapons are using Bryntoll, which is a very fast one; 2p10 will probably scale a bit better (if not sensibly better) with Shadow's Edge. I don't know if Consider did some side calculations on this, but since the delta is so small between the two weapons, I think the weapon speed may become a factor in deciding the specc of choice (Bryntoll users probably staying with 4p9 while SE users having 2p10 more easily affordable). It's speculation tho.

That was the case for me. My 4pc t9 consisted of all 245 pieces, so upgrading to 251 2pc t10 has been a noticeable upgrade for me since I acquired [Shadow's Edge]. And since I was also Blood in 3.2, I had some extra ArP pieces sitting around ([Faceplate of Thunderous Rampage] for example), which make 2pc t10 even stronger. I think switching to 2pc t10 is based largely on 3 things.

1.) What you are upgrading from
4x 245 to 2x 264 + 2x 245? 2pc t10 most likely wins out here.
4x 245 to 2x 251 + 2x 251 + acquiring Shadow's Edge or Cryptmaker? 2pc t10 most likely.

In any other situation, 4pc t9 probably wins.

2.) What weapon you have
Shadow's Edge and Cryptmaker most definitely favor 2pc t10.

3.) The amount of ArP you have
I would guess that an ArP rating of 500 or more could start to push 2pc t10 ahead of 4pc t9.

All of this is pure speculation however and I have nothing to back up my claims, but imo those 3 factors are likely the 3 major ones for determining 2pc t10 vs 4pc t9.

Unholy Blight has been proved to clock between 0.8 and 1% dps by most logs; it's close to being the perfectly balanced talent point in this regard. As such, the only way to know if Dark Conviction is better for you is to check your specc and rotation and mainly your gear to see how much impact does 1% crit have on it. Generally speaking, it's very hard for 1% crit to sum up to 1% more dps, so from a general point of view, UB wins.

There's nothing you could possibly put the point from UB into that would equate to a dps upgrade.

Blood Tap help please.

Blood Tap should be used every minute for either an extra Blood Strike or to refresh Bone Shield. Without Reaping it is easy to work it in. Just pop it after your Blood Strikes. With Reaping however I am unsure when to use it.

The best option I have found is to pop it after a Death Rune Scourge Strike. This Doesn't cause any clashing with the rotation and actually allows you to use a Death Rune Scourge Strike in the following rune set as well.

The problem I have with it is that having to wait for an extra 20 seconds on a Death Rune Scourge Strike.

Is there a more effective way to use Blood Tap with a Reaping rotation? Thanks