Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 146

Lucke · 01/15/10, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Nyth_

Also for some weird reason, rawr keeps pushing me to stack Expertise, even over strength, whereas Kahorie's simulator marks it much lower.

I had the same problem with rawr as well. I believe it still has the same weight on expertise per 3.2 even though we now have spare GCDs, reducing the importance of being exp capped.

Buffie · 01/15/10, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by vALKHAN

well, so it seems that this reaping build with 2pt9 + 2pt10 is not better than the no-reaping build with 4 pc T9. Even with reaping and bonus of 2 pieces T10, the scourge strike can't compete with 5/5 dark convinction and 4 pc T9 bonus.
Now I have to test the no reaping build with 2 T9 + 2 T10 to see if the difference and dps loss is given by 4 pc t9 bonus or dark convinction

Coming to such a conclusion from a single post without so much as a log to back up any claims is premature. All the math & all the sims say otherwise, and the post you quoted gives no evidence that they are wrong. I recommend waiting for someone to actually post data rather than anecdotes before passing judgment.

Retan · 01/15/10, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Buffie

Coming to such a conclusion from a single post without so much as a log to back up any claims is premature. All the math & all the sims say otherwise, and the post you quoted gives no evidence that they are wrong. I recommend waiting for someone to actually post data rather than anecdotes before passing judgment.

Alright then I'll provide evidence of this loss in dps which I'm assuming is because we are not at a certain amount of ARP. First link is to the first week of the plague wing with 4pc T9, the second link is to the second week of plague but this time with 2t9+2t10, I lost cable so I only got in on a few bosses, but the you can compare the parses and see for yourself the difference.
Week 1:WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay
Week 2:WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay
Also just realized my guild leader didn't upload our rotface/putricide logs, probably forgot since server lag ended our raid prematurely on Tuesday. On rotface I believe I only ended up doing like 8.5k, with 2-3 infections, no evidence but thats the best I can recall.
On our putricide attempts, I was tired of my dps being so low, so mid raid I went back to 4pc t9 and saw an increase of about 500-700 dps. I'm thinking you need 30% ARP for the spec switch, although I'm going to sim it to see if I can find the break off point.

APox · 01/15/10, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Retan

Alright then I'll provide evidence of this loss in dps which I'm assuming is because we are not at a certain amount of ARP. First link is to the first week of the plague wing with 4pc T9, the second link is to the second week of plague but this time with 2t9+2t10, I lost cable so I only got in on a few bosses, but the you can compare the parses and see for yourself the difference.
Week 1:WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay
Week 2:WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay
Also just realized my guild leader didn't upload our rotface/putricide logs, probably forgot since server lag ended our raid prematurely on Tuesday. On rotface I believe I only ended up doing like 8.5k, with 2-3 infections, no evidence but thats the best I can recall.
On our putricide attempts, I was tired of my dps being so low, so mid raid I went back to 4pc t9 and saw an increase of about 500-700 dps. I'm thinking you need 30% ARP for the spec switch, although I'm going to sim it to see if I can find the break off point.

Your parses really do not prove a thing. From looking at your damage break down on Festergut, which really is the only fight I'd consider even trying to compare the two, in the 2nd week you actually only had 12 more scourge strikes than you did the first week where you didn't have reaping. Furthermore, your scourge strike damage was below your death coils in the reaping build.

This seems like more evidence of a faulty rotation than a weakness in the 2T10 claim.

Mericet · 01/15/10, 4:00 PM

Remember that reaping only adds 1 scourge strike every rotation. The kill took about 4:40, so you would expect about 14 extra scourge strikes. There are lots of possible explanations as to why that number might be 1 or 2 off, so 12 is not unrealistic. As for death coil, on Festergut you can use anti-magic shell more or less on cooldown to get a ton of extra runic power for more death coils. It's not uncommon to have a significantly higher number of DCs on that fight than others. Especially if, as he says, his gear doesn't have an ideal amount of ArP yet, death coil damage will be high compared to scourge strike.

Note that I'm not defending his overall claim (sample size, possible buff discrepancies, etc...), just that his numbers aren't unreasonable.

Amroo · 01/15/10, 4:15 PM

If you take a look at your SS crit rate, it is 18 percentage points higher in the 4T9 parse than in the 2T10 parse. Since you should only lose 3% crit, that is 15 percentage points random difference. That alone accounts for about 250 dps difference in the Festergut fight. Also, your IT and PS have a large crit discrepancy between the logs, accounting for another 100 dps difference. All other skills are mostly about where they should be, although your pets had a slightly higher crit percentage in the second log.

I'm not saying you are wrong about your point, but the problem with just two logs is that you only have two logs and there is a lot of random noise. I myself have some doubts about the 4T9->2T10 switch, as my recent logs are showing me an AP equivalence value of about 560 for 4T9 when factoring in BP and WP damage. This week's log if anyone wants to check. It's still not enough data to come to any conclusions and with 4T9.258 switching before 4T10 is pointless in any event.

Retan · 01/15/10, 4:29 PM

I knew my logs weren't good representation, I'm just saying by looking at recount while raiding, it's quite obvious that in my gear, it's better to stick with 4pc t9. I'm assuming that once I get my hands on a cryptmaker and a bit more ARP then the spec will be superior, but I'm fairly confident that just switching to 2pc t10 is not enough justification to go reaping, you also are going to need quite a bit of ARP. Again, this is just speculation from what I've experienced with the reaping spec.

Clandestine · 01/15/10, 7:11 PM

It's important to note that due to the change in proc mechanics between this week and last, you would expect a small but significant dps loss due to loss of Fallen Crusader uptime. My uptime decreased by a third on most fights between this week and last.

edit: I just checked your logs and apparently you didn't suffer from a loss of Fallen Crusader uptime so I guess my point is moot.

Kuosi · 01/15/10, 10:38 PM

One reminder for those using Rawr to compare non-reaping and reaping specs:
Check the rotation, rawr seems to push 2 blood strikes and 4 scourge strikes as default for non-reaping specs aswel.
This obviously leads to inaccurate numbers.

daia · 01/16/10, 3:38 AM

Similar to rolling with Cinderglacier, you can get 15% more disease damage if you roll a disease you applied while under the effects of Tricks of the Trade.

The bonus damage is only on initial diseases. Diseases spread by pestilence do not carry the extra 15% damage.

This makes Glyph of Disease + a rogue pal a pretty good DPS increase on a fight where you can utilize this.

Kritz · 01/16/10, 6:50 AM

I swapped over to reaping spec this week ,Kazzak has alot of lag issues on raiding nights and i saw my dps plummet .Having 3 gcd's active at once is not good at all when you have a rotation as strict as with reaping constantly having to correct your deathrunes/bloodrunes . My advice if your on a loaded server keep away from 14/0/57 build .

Nahela · 01/16/10, 8:36 AM

Originally Posted by daia

Similar to rolling with Cinderglacier, you can get 15% more disease damage if you roll a disease you applied while under the effects of Tricks of the Trade.

The bonus damage is only on initial diseases. Diseases spread by pestilence do not carry the extra 15% damage.

This makes Glyph of Disease + a rogue pal a pretty good DPS increase on a fight where you can utilize this.

Does this mean that Tricks won't auto-update disease damage of currently applied diseases?

Derivel · 01/16/10, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by Nahela

Does this mean that Tricks won't auto-update disease damage of currently applied diseases?

Has any buff ever updated currently applied DOTs? I don't think so.

Nyth_ · 01/16/10, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by daia

Similar to rolling with Cinderglacier, you can get 15% more disease damage if you roll a disease you applied while under the effects of Tricks of the Trade.

The bonus damage is only on initial diseases. Diseases spread by pestilence do not carry the extra 15% damage.

This makes Glyph of Disease + a rogue pal a pretty good DPS increase on a fight where you can utilize this.

What exactly is the point of the Glyph of Diseases in here ?
Your diseases will do more damage when you refresh them with IT+PS while having TotT as well.

daia · 01/16/10, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by Nyth_

What exactly is the point of the Glyph of Diseases in here ?
Your diseases will do more damage when you refresh them with IT+PS while having TotT as well.

Reapplying diseases with IT and PS will lose the 15% damage buff from the original TotT. By refreshing them with GoD, you get the 15% extra damage as long as you can keep them rolling.

You can also get 20% more with a Cinderglacier proc at the start of a fight if you weaponswap a little. The Cinderglacier one has been too unreliable in my tries with it, though. You can go 30~ seconds before your first proc, which is pretty unacceptable.

The same thing applies with all % damage increasing buffs, including Blood Presence. Debuffs do not work in this way.