Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 151

♦ arison · 01/20/10, 4:58 PM

It's bad, just bad. No idea how it is rated so highly in the OP but even in BiS gear, I don't see it scaling enough to be that compelling. If you look at it as every rune you use being able to proc it and every melee, you get roughly 36 + 20-25 proc opportunities per minute, or ~30 motes. That corresponds to 3-4 Manifest Angers which is the equivalent of 1.5-2 melee attacks (but doesn't proc necrosis etc), or ~10% of auto attack damage (except no necrosis or BCB procs)... or, ~2% damage. But it comes at a high cost of not using even DMC: Greatness, and ends up getting trumped by it. The hit is nice, but as other posts point out, you have plenty of yellow sockets to put hit into and get some decent socket bonuses if you are that starved.

Simcraft supports it now and it is bad; I did some limited testing in 10s on it and it is bad, but I'll do a few bosses tonight in 25 man to seal the deal. But as it stands, for a UH DK, this is just a rotten trinket right now. Hopefully it will get improved through hotfixes or something, but even ignoring the range bug... it's bad.

Deadline · 01/20/10, 6:11 PM

To those talking about recent results with Kahorie's sim, remember you have to use the rotation that Consider posted at the bottom of the original post for Reaping specs. That is probably what is throwing you guys off.

Medestruit · 01/21/10, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Coldplague

The setup also has 8 yellow sockets.

That only counts towards spell hit.

Edit: Because I can't count.

And also not including glove/boot enchant, which is an extra 32 hit on top. So realistically, 183 hit from gear+32 from enchants puts you at 215, so if you're Ally you only need to use 2 of those slots for crit/hit gems to get over the 231 hurdle.

aldy · 01/21/10, 1:04 AM

There's no need to really even worry about the BiS list at the moment. You can be sure that the Lich King will drop at least one BiS item, possibly two, and there's a good chance that will cascade and cause a few other items to change. Hopefully they put his drops up on the armory as soon as that minor patch comes out. Also there is the strength version of the AV ring that will be coming out and has a good chance of being BiS.

doubledown · 01/21/10, 1:13 AM

edit: n/m - delete

neomasterc · 01/21/10, 2:48 AM

Originally Posted by Deadline

To those talking about recent results with Kahorie's sim, remember you have to use the rotation that Consider posted at the bottom of the original post for Reaping specs. That is probably what is throwing you guys off.

I'm pretty sure he's right. After modifying the rotation in kahorie to fit consider's rotation.
2pt10 +SE w/o Reaping DPS| 9241
2pt10 +SE w/ Reaping DPS| 9512

4pt9 + SE w/o Reaping DPS| 9351
4pt9 + SE w/ Reaping DPS| 9552

Deadline · 01/21/10, 3:45 AM

With Kahorie's my results were,
2pT10 + Bryntroll w/ Reaping = 20 dps higher than 4pT9 + Bryntroll w/o Reaping (or around that number, in any case, just barely pushing it ahead). I was using my own stats.

When I get home tomorrow, and have time to run the Sim, I'll edit this with results. Didn't save them when I ran it a few days ago.

Aliocha · 01/21/10, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by arison

Tiny Abomination revisited
It's bad, just bad. No idea how it is rated so highly in the OP [...]

It's pretty obvious why : the OP clearly states that it makes the assumption that the whole hit rating on the trinket is used. Which it won't be, most of the time.

With the assumed BiS items with hit on them (T10 gloves, Polar Bear Claw Bracers, Garrosh' Rage : 82 + 60 + 57 = 199), you can't fit in a +85 hit rating trinket. When you don't have Shadowmourne, the BiS weapon is Heroic Cryptmaker, which has 99 hit rating, forcing you to replace the T10 gloves by Heroic Fleshrending Gauntlets, which has a much-less-desirable 74 haste.

The short answer is : the proc is far for amazing, right. Still, if it accounts for 2% of your DPS, it's really not bad, Greatness proc isn't much higher than this : an average static 100 strength is around 300 APE, which means around 200 DPS (depending on your gear). If you're pulling 10k DPS (which you will in BiS), there's your 2%. The big problem on TAiaJ is : the hit rating on the trinket IS going to go to waste, most likely.

Codface · 01/21/10, 5:25 AM

Reaping vs Non Reaping

You have 1 more free GCD spot from reaping builds, you can better take advantage on excess Rune Power created from AMS during gaps to pull out extra attacks.
With reaping your removing Rune Power Twice pre end of rotation dump as opose once without, this is going to leave your 'par' RP to be lower thus better placed to take advantage on AMS without disruption to your rotation.
More free GCD are also good for things like parry annoyances and playing in lag. These again are unsimable benefits.
More Double rune attacks is also better imo on fights where you have to move out of range on the boss. Being able to move out of range after putting all 6 runes on cooldown in 3 strikes rather than 4 is going to show some advantages to dps even if very minor.
Long term your going to switch to a reaping build so its best to get used to it now before any really difficult fights appear.

Anyway these are just my thoughs on benefits the Sims wont tell you for reaping builds.

Fugazor · 01/21/10, 7:29 AM

Using rotation and changing HoW indeed "fixes" Reaping results. With my current gear (2T9, 2T10, BA) it shows however only 10 dps increase, Rawr shows 50 dps increase. With better gear its 50-100 dps increase, I thought it would be more but more dps is more dps.

@Codface: You do not really have free GCD, it goes for HoW so if you don't use it you loose 10 RP/0.25 DC per rotation. Also keep in mind that non-reaping rotation is easier - you cannot really make any errors in it while in reaping you can fuck up death runes if you are not careful.

Breklin · 01/21/10, 9:35 AM

If you raid with a druid (or three) that have Revitalize, you generally will not be using HoW in your rotation, instead replacing it with death coils. There is the odd time while you're actively dpsing a boss that you'll be able to use the extra 10 RP and of course during phase transitions, etc.

Cheesus · 01/21/10, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Breklin

If you raid with a druid (or three) that have Revitalize, you generally will not be using HoW in your rotation, instead replacing it with death coils. There is the odd time while you're actively dpsing a boss that you'll be able to use the extra 10 RP and of course during phase transitions, etc.

I the times during Ulduar, I made a "pact" with one of the druids that she keeps Rejuv on me the whole time. Right now its not even an issue, as one of the druids usualy trying to cover the whole raid with rejuvs running permanently.

This is the reason why I, personally, find Reaping build more attractive, even taking aside "free" RP from AMS: you actually have that extra RP to fire one more DC instead of pushing horn key bind.

I think that simulator needs to be adjusted, allowing one more option to select in buffs - if you have extra RP from Rejuv and AMS.

dr_AllCOM3 · 01/21/10, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Cheesus

I think that simulator needs to be adjusted, allowing one more option to select in buffs - if you have extra RP from Rejuv and AMS.

I've put an x rp every y seconds options in the sim a very long time ago.

-highwind- · 01/21/10, 10:52 AM

I cannot quite follow the logic behind the statement from the "Multiple Target / AoE spec / 17/0/54 without Reaping"-section saying:
"if you don’t have the luxury of using your dual spec for two dps specs, this could be considered the superior “general” spec".

If you do not have the freedom to use both specs for dps AND if you have 2p or 4p t10 (which, following this thread, is suggested to get asap) the best "general" spec should be 12/0/59, not 17/0/54.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...7,FpH3eO,11159

Dark conviction is, if you believe the original poster, the weakest single target talent (which is atleast the statement why the reaping built loses 3 points out of it and not, for example, out of necrosis) and without 4pt9 it doesnt hold any aditional ae-value either, does it ?
Necrosis is said to be better than dark conviction on single target and as it doesnt hold any ae value neither, it should be superior than dark conviction in a "general" spec.
Reaping (after 2pt10) is the same for that matter.
Morbidity, according to what the original poster said, is a tad weaker on single targets but a huge dps increase on multi target fights (bacause of the reduced d&d cooldown) so it looks like any remaining or changend points should go in here.

If I oversee anything, please correct me, but I think the way it is currently pinned down (in the original post) is quite misleading. The "Specs Section" should be arrangend from the most general spec 12/0/59 at the top to different subspecs focussing on special environments (still having 4pt9 / maximizing single target at cost of multi target damage / and so on).

Cheesus · 01/21/10, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

I've put an x rp every y seconds options in the sim a very long time ago.

Aha. Homehow, I missed that, sorry. Then, I guess, its time to compare Extra-DC reaping versus non-reaping.