Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 154

neomasterc · 01/25/10, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

That's why I use a priority system. Rotations really are just for beginners. They're great and an easy way to learn the class, but mastering DK's means using priorities. Priorities blend over into rotations after moving anyway.

I totally agree. All specs for DKs are simply priority systems. There is a lot of preemptive rune/RP planning for fights to respond in a way to min/max dmg output. The so-called rotation is simply plan to use runes in a certain fashion to min/max damage in a zero movement fight. Movement intensive fights forces you to use what you have and make the most out of it. Priority systems let you do this.

Angelababy · 01/25/10, 11:27 PM

I have a question about [Inscribed Ametrine]

The second case is a matter of the following chart. Whenever a socket bonus requiring any number of red sockets, zero blue sockets, and then one (or more, simply multiply the number in the chart appropriately) yellow sockets, has a bonus that is equal to or higher than the number listed in the following chart utilize an [Inscribed Ametrine].

So if I read that correctly: If I have an item with 1 red socket and 1 yellow socket with a bonus of +4 strength at iLvl 264, I should place an [Inscribed Ametrine] on the yellow socket instead of [Bold Cardinal Ruby].

But on norg's BiS thread he ignores this and gems [Bold Cardinal Ruby] on everything, which one is accurate?

• frmorrison · 01/25/10, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Angelababy

I have a question about [Inscribed Ametrine]

So if I read that correctly: If I have an item with 1 red socket and 1 yellow socket with a bonus of +4 strength at iLvl 264, I should place an [Inscribed Ametrine] on the yellow socket instead of [Bold Cardinal Ruby].

But on norg's BiS thread he ignores this and gems [Bold Cardinal Ruby] on everything, which one is accurate?

Using the Inscribed is accurate. For Norg's lists, the heroic items do not have a known socket bonus yet since the armory does not show socket bonuses. However, if it is just a yellow socket on a plate item, most of the time it has a 4 strength or higher bonus.

neomasterc · 01/26/10, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Angelababy

I have a question about [Inscribed Ametrine]

So if I read that correctly: If I have an item with 1 red socket and 1 yellow socket with a bonus of +4 strength at iLvl 264, I should place an [Inscribed Ametrine] on the yellow socket instead of [Bold Cardinal Ruby].

But on norg's BiS thread he ignores this and gems [Bold Cardinal Ruby] on everything, which one is accurate?

You have to keep in mind that it is correct to gem inscribed IF you're using the calculations in the OP. However, stat weighings vary from character to character and you should calculate your own APE values for str and crit to see if it is really worth it.

Amroo · 01/26/10, 5:20 AM

Originally Posted by neomasterc

You have to keep in mind that it is correct to gem inscribed IF you're using the calculations in the OP. However, stat weighings vary from character to character and you should calculate your own APE values for str and crit to see if it is really worth it.

Stat weights at different gear levels do not have such a high variance (except, possibly, for armor penetration) to actually affect this decision.

Nynx · 01/26/10, 5:31 AM

Originally Posted by -highwind-

I cannot quite follow the logic behind the statement from the "Multiple Target / AoE spec / 17/0/54 without Reaping"-section saying:
"if you don’t have the luxury of using your dual spec for two dps specs, this could be considered the superior “general” spec".

If you do not have the freedom to use both specs for dps AND if you have 2p or 4p t10 (which, following this thread, is suggested to get asap) the best "general" spec should be 12/0/59, not 17/0/54.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...7,FpH3eO,11159

Dark conviction is, if you believe the original poster, the weakest single target talent (which is atleast the statement why the reaping built loses 3 points out of it and not, for example, out of necrosis) and without 4pt9 it doesnt hold any aditional ae-value either, does it ?
Necrosis is said to be better than dark conviction on single target and as it doesnt hold any ae value neither, it should be superior than dark conviction in a "general" spec.
Reaping (after 2pt10) is the same for that matter.
Morbidity, according to what the original poster said, is a tad weaker on single targets but a huge dps increase on multi target fights (bacause of the reduced d&d cooldown) so it looks like any remaining or changend points should go in here.

If I oversee anything, please correct me, but I think the way it is currently pinned down (in the original post) is quite misleading. The "Specs Section" should be arrangend from the most general spec 12/0/59 at the top to different subspecs focussing on special environments (still having 4pt9 / maximizing single target at cost of multi target damage / and so on).

Been wondering from the specs in the OP (17/0/54 non reaping build) and it's actually possible to benefict with this spec, having Reaping, full Morbidity and still having that extra damage from DC.
It seems a fairly nice spec for multi-targeting and single-target at once, with the better cooldown on DnD and the extra damage from DC.

At least, this is in theory.

On latest Rawr although, i could simulated that, with my current gear:

(No Raid buffs, only HoW)

With 4pT9 with 17/0/54 (non reaping with Bryntroll) -> 5443 dps

With 4pT9 with 12/0/59 (no Dark Conviction, Reaping and with 2/3 Morbidity and Bryntroll) -> 5720 dps

Now, passing to the current 2pT10 + 2pT9 content (assuming hit cap as priority, of course):

With 2pT10+2pT9 with 14/0/57 with Bryntroll -> 5875 dps

With 2pT10+2pT9 with 12/0/59 (no Dark Conviction, Reaping and with 2/3 Morbidity and Bryntroll) -> 5749 dps

Any thoughts on this ?
I know its obvious that this build isn't over the OP build, but still, as i said, on practice, would be Morbidity > Dark Conviction in numbers and, therefore, DPS ?

Purulento · 01/26/10, 8:22 AM

Learned today that AMS mitigates the fear of Blood Queen. Dunno if they are patching this, but is useful information so you can position yourself better.

Mathrix · 01/26/10, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by Purulento

Learned today that AMS mitigates the fear of Blood Queen. Dunno if they are patching this, but is useful information so you can position yourself better.

This is the same mechanic as fear in PvP. Fear Ward etc. also work. Seems to be intended.

hatchetman240 · 01/26/10, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dovucoe

Something that I'm not too sure about - how do you guys handle having to move away from the target in fights (e.g. running out for Empowered Shock Vortex, Emalon's Lightning Nova etc), particularly when you run back and find that your rotation is now off?

Many of the fights that involve getting out of the way are due to a magic damage source, you can safely use AMS to charge up and not worry about messing up your rotation or priority system because you will have plenty of DC's to drop on the run back in. Priority>rotation on almost any fight, but planning trumps all. In fights that don't have a dependable AMS source of RP I try to time it so I am full on runic power when I need to move out. On these fights I spread my DCs out so I never do more than one at a time and only just as I hit full(ish) RP. This leaves me with a lot of RP to play with when I need to move. On the way back in I dump my DCs, horn, IT and then DC again if I am still out of range or move right to PS and start in again.

Deadly Boss Mods should be showing you when these abilities are coming. It's pretty easy to plan your RP around this stuff. There is no way to hold a real rotation on these fights, it's all about sustaining the best DPS you can with what conditions are given.

Talimar · 01/26/10, 10:14 AM

Would the value of expertise increase by any substantial amount once we have 4p-t10?

Arterus · 01/26/10, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Talimar

Would the value of expertise increase by any substantial amount once we have 4p-t10?

I wouldn't think so since even if your attack is parried/dodged, the runes go on cooldown for a GCD. After the initial rotation, you'll never have a time where you leave runes up for 15 seconds.

Blackteddy · 01/26/10, 2:30 PM

For Blood Queen, would it be better to spec blood? As pet's do not receive the dmg buff from the bite.

Autoband · 01/26/10, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Blackteddy

For Blood Queen, would it be better to spec blood? As pet's do not receive the dmg buff from the bite.

Only makes you lose out on about ~5% extra dps you would've gained otherwise. Meanwhile you will be taking 20% less damage from pretty much everything on the whole encounter. Also your HP might dip under 75% more often than you'd like because of how the fight works, decreasing damage for a blood dk at least several times during the fihgt.

Medestruit · 01/26/10, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Blackteddy

For Blood Queen, would it be better to spec blood? As pet's do not receive the dmg buff from the bite.

Your ghoul doesn't benefit from the buff, but I do believe a gargoyle summoned after being bitten, does.

Expression search for gargoyle damage before and after receiving Vampiric Bite buff

If you notice, the gargoyle summoned after the vampiric bite does seem to benefit it to some extent. But even if the pets receive no buffs, if you have a shadow priest in the raid who is getting bitten(as I do), you're increasing their damage from crypt plague and makes it that much better for them as a vampire. By looking at the top parses on WoL for blood and unholy for the fight, unholy seems to still hold the edge overall.

Unholy
Blood

• Tehax · 01/26/10, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Medestruit

Your ghoul doesn't benefit from the buff, but I do believe a gargoyle summoned after being bitten, does.

Expression search for gargoyle damage before and after receiving Vampiric Bite buff

I'm not entirely convinced of that, your first gargoyle had no procs and your second had both Paragon and Greatness up it looks like.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis