Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 157

Deafk · 01/27/10, 6:13 PM

EP Values

EP AttackPower | 1 (0.64 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength | 3.03
EP Agility | 1.66
EP CritRating | 2.44
EP HasteEstimated | 2.41
EP HasteRating1 | 2.94
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 3.22
EP ExpertiseRating | 2.09
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 4.03
EP SpellHitRating | 0.58
EP WeaponDPS | 7.5
EP WeaponSpeed | 187.5

Just simmed my character after getting a few more bits of 251 level gear, im sitting around 40% arp.

Now according to these sims ARP is a better stat than STR? I Have gone through my sim a few times and it all appears to be correct.

Anyone else's sims showing this or i got some l2sim issues?

Nerdrage_ · 01/27/10, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by Neddie

The reason for pre-casting AotD is that it takes 4s to cast, so that's 4s you're not DPSing the boss. A reason to DPS the boss and then summon the army is to get buffs/procs up before summoning..

So if you're trying to decide between summoning them pre-fight and summoning them mid-fight with your procs up, the question is which is more damage: 4s of damage from you + 30s of damage from an unbuffed army, or 30s of damage from a buffed army.

I found a random World of Logs report with a couple of Unholy DKs who use AotD on Festergut:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

One DK does 8k personal DPS on average, and his army does 32329 damage total. Another Unholy DK in the same raid does also does 8k personal DPS on average and his army does 34145 damage total. Given that, it seems impossible that stopping DPS for 4s to summon your army will do more overall damage than pre-summoning it. Assuming these guys both pre-summoned, so the damage an unbuffed army does is roughly 32,000. For it to be worth not pre-summoning and instead waiting until your trinkets/sigils/weapon rune procs, they would have to do roughly double their damage when buffed vs unbuffed to make up for the DK losing 4s he could otherwise be attacking the boss.

In fact, it may mean that it's questionable if you have the opportunity to summon AotD a second time in the fight, it is worth stopping DPS for the 4s it takes to summon them, since the damage done by the AotD over its duration is roughly the same as the the damage a DK would do in that same time (4s).

A decent % of your dps comes from dot ticks/your ghoul. Also consider that it is possible to "catch up" those 4 seconds somewhat due to our rune cooldowns... On the other side I don't think you've considered what is perhaps the biggest potential dps loss from summoning army mid-combat, which is that it causes a lot of runes to be on CD for longer.

Gorbard · 01/27/10, 6:32 PM

Hi guys,

this is my recount from Festergut 25.

The Jar makes 2,0% of my damage as you can see. I don't know, but this seems a little low? I mean low compared to other trinkets.

Larisroth · 01/27/10, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by Deafk

EP Values

EP AttackPower | 1 (0.64 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength | 3.03
EP Agility | 1.66
EP CritRating | 2.44
EP HasteEstimated | 2.41
EP HasteRating1 | 2.94
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 3.22
EP ExpertiseRating | 2.09
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 4.03
EP SpellHitRating | 0.58
EP WeaponDPS | 7.5
EP WeaponSpeed | 187.5

Just simmed my character after getting a few more bits of 251 level gear, im sitting around 40% arp.

Now according to these sims ARP is a better stat than STR? I Have gone through my sim a few times and it all appears to be correct.

Anyone else's sims showing this or i got some l2sim issues?

In general, none of the EP values look out of whack, although the values seem to correspond to the upper end of gear. That said a lot of it depends on the other details of the sim. One thing you could do would be to consider the damage breakdown compared with an actual log.

The ArPen value mostly depends on how much ArPen you have, which is a little bit hard to measure due to the fact you have the NES trinket.

nerdfuel · 01/27/10, 7:50 PM

Originally Posted by Deafk

EP Values

EP AttackPower | 1 (0.64 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength | 3.03
EP Agility | 1.66
EP CritRating | 2.44
EP HasteEstimated | 2.41
EP HasteRating1 | 2.94
EP ArmorPenetrationRating | 3.22
EP ExpertiseRating | 2.09
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 4.03
EP SpellHitRating | 0.58
EP WeaponDPS | 7.5
EP WeaponSpeed | 187.5

Just simmed my character after getting a few more bits of 251 level gear, im sitting around 40% arp.

Now according to these sims ARP is a better stat than STR? I Have gone through my sim a few times and it all appears to be correct.

Anyone else's sims showing this or i got some l2sim issues?

I have 38% ArP and a Shadow's Edge but my sim doesn't put ArP as high as you have it. I'm going to have to guess you did something wrong because ArP shouldn't outweigh Str as Unholy.

EP AttackPower	1 (0.63 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength	3.02
EP Agility	1.3
EP CritRating	1.97
EP HasteEstimated	1.87
EP HasteRating1	1.84
EP ArmorPenetrationRating	2.38
EP ExpertiseRating	0.73
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8%	2.16
EP SpellHitRating	0.35
EP WeaponDPS	7.46
EP WeaponSpeed	349.21
EP 4T9	432.26
EP 4T10	437.1

• frmorrison · 01/27/10, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gorbard

Hi guys,

this is my recount from Festergut 25.

The Jar makes 2,0% of my damage as you can see. I don't know, but this seems a little low? I mean low compared to other trinkets.

TAJ isn't great for Unholy, maybe worth 450 dps (higher than Greatness) assuming you can use the hit rating, less if not.

Gorbard · 01/28/10, 4:42 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

TAJ isn't great for Unholy, maybe worth 450 dps (higher than Greatness) assuming you can use the hit rating, less if not.

Isn't great? But why is it listet as the second best non hc trinket? With all hit used it is even higher rated as Death choice.

Hm i hope Considers trinketlist isn't outdated.

mofidik · 01/28/10, 5:00 AM

Originally Posted by Gorbard

Isn't great? But why is it listet as the second best non hc trinket? With all hit used it is even higher rated as Death choice.

If you are seriously contemplating using one of those [with hit] trinkets - which are rarely worthwhile unless you have no other moderately decent options - do the math on your own.

It's a decent choice for someone who would go bellow hit cap like yourself, but it depends on the alternative. Like Consider said, do the maths yourself.

Videl · 01/28/10, 5:20 AM

The best trinkets list is a little deceptive when trinkets have hit on them. Hit is very important and powerful until you cap it which inflates the value of those trinkets, since they get the stat weight of a bunch of hit for the static aspect of the trinket.

When you evaluate any gear with hit, you should really take anything related to stat weights with a big grain of salt. Basically, anytime you equip a new piece of gear with hit at this gear level you will almost definitely be taking a different piece of gear with hit on it off (and maybe swapping a gem/enchant around). If you're going to use stat weights you need to sum up all the stats on the new piece with hit, the new piece that replaces the old piece with hit and any gem/enchant you're swapping in and compare all that to the sum of the old piece with hit, the old piece you're replacing with the new piece with hit and and gem/enchant you're swapping out. You should be finding that the effect of the hit should pretty much cancel out on both sides and what you're really comparing are the non-hit stats on the gear.

Any kind of spreadsheet or gear manager will keep track of all this for you, which is what makes them so much better than BiS lists for practical use. The list is accurate, read the bit in italics at the bottom though.

As I'm understanding it, enhancement shaman and assasssination rogues are the best uses for the jar trinket, maybe ret paladins as well.

Lamperouqe · 01/28/10, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Videl

As I'm understanding it, enhancement shaman and assasssination rogues are the best uses for the jar trinket, maybe ret paladins as well.

Poisons can't proc it anymore, so Combat has more PPM than Assassssination.

About the ghoul issues posted. I also have experienced the Raise Dead button "graying out". Relog and zoning trigger the cooldown to start again. In my case it has happened when my ghoul dies, never when summoned. As frost I noticed that whenever I summoned my ghoul to fight the second boss in Nexus, the button would always gray out after the ghoul timer expired and become unusable. Other than that it has always been random.
The AotD bug has never happened to me, but I've been getting a different bug not mentioned yet; my ghoul cooldown is 3 minutes when my ghoul dies when it should be 30 seconds as Unholy. This happened on Rotface last night, my ghoul died straight away at the start and I had a 3 minute cooldown timer to summon it again.

Lujaar · 01/28/10, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lamperouqe

The AotD bug has never happened to me, but I've been getting a different bug not mentioned yet; my ghoul cooldown is 3 minutes when my ghoul dies when it should be 30 seconds as Unholy. This happened on Rotface last night, my ghoul died straight away at the start and I had a 3 minute cooldown timer to summon it again.

I've seen that too, also on Rotface. The ghoul died midway through the fight and Raise Dead went on 3m cooldown.

Shrakz · 01/28/10, 4:18 PM

Reaping Vs ReapingLess with 2pc T10:

It's been well accepted that the reaping build starts to pull ahead of the reapingless build after people acquire 2pc T10 and several pieces of ICC gear.

When I plug in my own stats in Kahorie's Sim (Latest version 1.2.0.6) and check out the results for a reaping build versus a reapingless build, they are very similar, with only a neligible DPS difference between the two specs, even with the 2pc T10.

Since the ReapingLess spec is much more friendly in fights with more than just the boss to damage (for example being able to spread ebon plague on all saurfang adds as they spawn without screwing up the rotation too much) shouldn't this spec still be used even after acquiring 2pc T10 and a few ICC pieces ?

Here are the Sims I ran with the stats/gear currently on my armory : The rotations are the default ones provided in the Sim for both specs. Any thoughts ?

Unholy ReapingLess 17-00-54

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	%
MainHand	657655435	19,1	139211	4724,2	81425	57,4	2864,1	57786	40,7	7345,2	2706	1,9
ScourgeStrike	599082642	17,4	53608	11175,2	23436	43,3	6295,5	30172	55,7	14965,6	522	1
Ghoul	376839582	10,9	366314	1028,7	318532	87	918,5	47782	13	1763,5
DeathCoil	330075346	9,6	56641	5827,5	33726	59	4078	22915	40,1	8402,4	475	,8
BloodStrike	275435642	8	70285	3918,8	35203	49,1	2563,5	35082	49	5278,8	1366	1,9
FrostFever	213199741	6,2	109125	1953,7	109125	100							99,6	99,6
BloodPlague	179113738	5,2	109077	1642,1	109077	100							99,6	99,6
Bryntroll	153801559	4,5	44624	3446,6	44624	99,1	3446,6				408	,9
Gargoyle	151105114	4,4	28463	5308,8	24864	86,6	4712,8	3599	12,5	9426,4	251	,9
Necrosis	127771018	3,7	139211	917,8	139211	100
WanderingPlague	115171591	3,3	64337	1790,1	64337	99,1					573	,9
BloodCakedBlade	100347699	2,9	41002	2447,4	41002	98	2447,4				824	2
PlagueStrike	81345967	2,4	17870	4552,1	9481	52,1	2765,6	8389	46,1	6571,2	339	1,9
IcyTouch	57847279	1,7	17870	3237,1	10670	59,2	2270,1	7200	40	4670,2	147	,8
UnholyBlight	33009294	1	56641	582,8	56641	100
DPS	9588
Total Damage	3451,8m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	4926
Generated in	122s
Template:	Unholy 17-00-54-3
Rotation:	Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

Unholy Reaping 14-00-57

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	%
ScourgeStrike	780202175	22,6	71398	10927,5	33458	46,4	6308,5	37940	52,6	15000,9	684	,9
MainHand	639604697	18,5	139207	4594,6	85615	60,3	2889,3	53592	37,8	7318,9	2705	1,9
Ghoul	375427703	10,9	366307	1024,9	318374	86,9	914,8	47933	13,1	1756,1
DeathCoil	333834505	9,7	58854	5672,2	36761	61,9	4058,9	22093	37,2	8356,7	495	,8
FrostFever	211185619	6,1	109434	1929,8	109434	100							99,4	99,4
BloodPlague	177203351	5,1	109409	1619,6	109409	100							99,5	99,5
Gargoyle	154630270	4,5	29069	5319,4	25278	86,2	4704,5	3791	12,9	9419,7	252	,9
Bryntroll	147564697	4,3	42828	3445,5	42828	99,1	3445,5				388	,9
BloodStrike	131532933	3,8	34511	3811,3	18295	52	2543,9	16216	46,1	5241,3	677	1,9
Necrosis	124264304	3,6	139207	892,7	139207	100
WanderingPlague	107943313	3,1	61071	1767,5	61071	99,1					531	,9
BloodCakedBlade	99953119	2,9	41000	2437,9	41000	98	2437,9				824	2
PlagueStrike	78249061	2,3	17850	4383,7	10066	55,3	2739,8	7784	42,8	6509,5	338	1,9
IcyTouch	55866345	1,6	17850	3129,8	11204	62,3	2244,8	6646	36,9	4621,7	147	,8
UnholyBlight	33385254	1	58854	567,3	58854	100
DPS	9586
Total Damage	3450,85m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	4924
Generated in	123s
Template:	Unholy 17-00-54-3
Rotation:	Unholy-Reaping
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

Edit: Template in reaping table indicates 17-00-54 but the spec was modified manually before the simulation to 14-00-57

Complicated · 01/28/10, 5:48 PM

Hey guys,

I know back when 3.1 came out the suggested spec was 0/10/61 once gear was good enough.
Now I've missed the entire ToC content and all patches and related theorycrafts, I'm wondering at what point we reverted back to a 17/0/54 format ? (searched this entire post for the answer in vain).

While SS got changed to be half physical I still find alot of my damage comes from frost and shadow sources [~50%] (mainly Death Coil in the AMS friendly ICC fights incl constant rejuv).

So just for fun and tests I decided to roll with a 1/10/60 spec like so: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The results were surprising to say the least, here I got 2 parses with identical gear and buffs on Festergut 25:

14/0/57
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
(older parse with T9 head instead of T10)
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
(newer parse with identical gear without ghoul, just click on triangle in WoL to see personal dps)

1/10/60
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Pretty interesting although it might have something to do with Bryntroll.

Shamgarr · 01/28/10, 6:02 PM

Well at first glance it looks like you forgot to summon a ghoul...

Complicated · 01/28/10, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by Shamgarr

Well at first glance it looks like you forgot to summon a ghoul...

Edit: I put last weeks and week before parse up there, no major gear changes but kill time varies a lot.

- Click the triangle to view my personal dps for the fight, Ghouls don't matter (thx Potlol)