Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 186

Afabar · 02/26/10, 5:37 AM

Gargoyle Strike is a spell and Icy Talons is a melee haste buff. Unless someone prove me I'm wrong, the implementation in the sim is correct.

keLston · 02/26/10, 6:05 AM

Originally Posted by Nyth_

I doubt it works, but even if it did.

Good luck convincing a hunter to run into melee, drop a frost trap, and get back out. So you an have your 5 dps increase.

Well I mean, if we can be certain that general snare producing effects that can end up on a boss regardless of snare immunity, couldn't you just lose a point in necrosis to get desecrated ground for a similar effect?

jacaregorgo · 02/26/10, 6:30 AM

Originally Posted by Afabar

Gargoyle Strike is a spell and Icy Talons is a melee haste buff. Unless someone prove me I'm wrong, the implementation in the sim is correct.

Yes, i reread the talent, too. It is just melee haste - what a shame

Btw, great work with your simulator Afabar.

Kaejin · 02/26/10, 6:34 AM

You'd lose more DPS from dropping a point in Necrosis than you would gain from GoBS, even if it did work.

The reason Infected Wounds and Frostfire Bolt work as a snare is because the debuff they apply has an additional effect to the snare. Infected Wounds slows attack speed, and FFB applies a dot. Bosses are not immune to the entire debuff because of those additional effects, and that's the only reason they work for GoBS. Most bosses are simply immune to all other snares and you wouldn't get the benefit of the glyph.

Seretrus · 02/26/10, 2:06 PM

I know we're mostly discussing the upcoming patch, but I've been running optimization sims to play with current things, Kahories is telling me that 2 points in Morbidity is a 5 DPS increase over the standard 2 points in Dark Conviction which has been considered the 'superior' single target talent correct?

This is with morbidity

[/table]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	%
MainHand	461209454	15.1	1583	291351.5	999	63	186454.1	584	36.8	470790.8	3	.2
Ghoul	380779797	12.5	357864	1064	311254	87	951	46610	13	1819.2
ScourgeStrikeMagical	378516161	12.4	71916	5263.3	35592	49.5	3103.9	36324	50.5	7379.2
ScourgeStrike	361136937	11.8	71916	5021.6	35592	49.4	2961.4	36324	50.4	7040.4	203	.3
DeathCoil	351791901	11.5	56713	6203	35911	62.6	4464.6	20802	36.3	9204.1	618	1.1
FrostFever	211410489	6.9	108915	1941.1	108915	100							99.9	99.9
BloodPlague	175795504	5.8	108256	1623.9	108256	100							99.9	99.9
Gargoyle	147419781	4.8	31763	4641.2	27611	86	4104.8	4152	12.9	8208.4	333	1
BloodStrike	142288601	4.7	35943	3958.7	20069	55.7	2697.2	15874	44.1	5553.6	91	.3
WanderingPlague	105177217	3.4	59335	1772.6	59335	98.9					683	1.1
Necrosis	89606384	2.9	1583	56605.4	1583	100
PlagueStrike	82716760	2.7	17970	4603	10474	58.1	2921.7	7496	41.6	6952.4	50	.3
BloodCakedBlade	74007916	2.4	468	158136.6	468	99.6	158136.6				2	.4
IcyTouch	56437788	1.8	17985	3138	11381	62.6	2259.7	6604	36.3	4651.8	190	1
UnholyBlight	35181150	1.2	56713	620.3	56713	100
DPS	8482
Total Damage	3053.48m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	4262
Generated in	31s
Template:	UHreaping
Priority:	Unholy
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

2 point dark conviction.

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	%
MainHand	467619507	15.3	1583	295400.8	969	61.1	184464.5	614	38.7	470477.9	3	.2
ScourgeStrikeMagical	384592501	12.6	71916	5347.8	34184	47.5	3103.9	37732	52.5	7380.7
Ghoul	380779797	12.5	357864	1064	311254	87	951	46610	13	1819.2
ScourgeStrike	366934195	12	71916	5102.3	34184	47.4	2961.4	37732	52.3	7041.8	203	.3
DeathCoil	324769000	10.6	56713	5726.5	34754	60.6	4058.2	21959	38.3	8367	618	1.1
FrostFever	211410489	6.9	108915	1941.1	108915	100							99.9	99.9
BloodPlague	175795504	5.8	108256	1623.9	108256	100							99.9	99.9
Gargoyle	147419781	4.8	31763	4641.2	27611	86	4104.8	4152	12.9	8208.4	333	1
BloodStrike	144330824	4.7	35943	4015.5	19373	53.8	2697.4	16570	46	5556.7	91	.3
WanderingPlague	109743118	3.6	61877	1773.6	61877	98.8					721	1.2
Necrosis	90851772	3	1583	57392.1	1583	100
PlagueStrike	84069202	2.8	17970	4678.3	10137	56.3	2924.9	7833	43.5	6947.5	50	.3
BloodCakedBlade	73726300	2.4	468	157534.8	468	99.6	157534.8				2	.4
IcyTouch	57287540	1.9	17985	3185.3	11026	60.7	2259.7	6959	38.3	4651.8	190	1
UnholyBlight	32464496	1.1	56713	572.4	56713	100
DPS	8477
Total Damage	3051.79m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	4260
Generated in	29s
Template:	UHreaping
Priority:	Unholy
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

If this is true I see no clear reason to drop the ability to use DnD every rotation and suffer a dps loss.

Demonice · 02/26/10, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Seretrus

I know we're mostly discussing the upcoming patch, but I've been running optimization sims to play with current things, Kahories is telling me that 2 points in Morbidity is a 5 DPS increase over the standard 2 points in Dark Conviction which has been considered the 'superior' single target talent correct?

On single-targets, it's pretty close either way (with Morbidity possibly pulling ahead in situations where you have extra RP to dump due to revitalize/AMS and you're out of melee range). For many people, I'd think the shorter cooldown on DnD makes it a winner.

micronSD · 02/26/10, 6:01 PM

Assuming the Icy Talons change goes live, how does the change affect our stat weights? Would Haste overtake ArP?

Tashimaro · 02/27/10, 3:32 AM

with the new change, would Tiny Abomination in a Jar and Herkuml War Token rate higher than it is now?
because with the change, we able get 40% haste ( 20%self, 20% WF totem ) from a normal 25 men raid, we might able to stack mote/Ap as fast as rogue/ret pally because we can get close to 2.1 ( with shadow edge, might be 2.0 with 3.4's weapon )attack speed.
what do you guys think?

Glutton · 02/27/10, 7:13 AM

TAJ isn't viable for those specs merely because they attack fast. It's viable because Manifest Anger triggers a subsequent poison or seal.

Tashimaro · 02/27/10, 7:47 AM

Originally Posted by Glutton

TAJ isn't viable for those specs merely because they attack fast. It's viable because Manifest Anger triggers a subsequent poison or seal.

shouldnt TAJ proc from Necrosis and blooded-caked blade is well? ( sorry i'm not exactly sure thats why i ask )
seals? is it SoV/SoC? if so than i aussme Necrosis should proc is well, but i might be wrong.

nhlkdog411 · 02/27/10, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by Tashimaro

shouldnt TAJ proc from Necrosis and blooded-caked blade is well? ( sorry i'm not exactly sure thats why i ask )
seals? is it SoV/SoC? if so than i aussme Necrosis should proc is well, but i might be wrong.

I'm not sure on this but I think you misunderstood his point. Its not good because of getting motes of anger off seals/poisons; its good because when it procs you get the 50% attack PLUS a seal/poison and pally seals can crit for like 8k.

Tushee · 02/27/10, 11:02 AM

Assuming all of thoose changes going live, it looks like ArP is going down in value again. Does it mean Heroic Deathbringer's Will will no longer be BiS trinket for us? Replaced with say, Heroic 10m Trinket for Deathwhisper (crit one) I cant remamber name atm? I'm a bit confised here, and I'm nut quite sure about own match, however it seems right assuming we will do less Scourge Strikes (altough bit more benefiting for ArP now) and haste will go up in value once again due to frost subspec. So the question is: can some1 confirm or deny Heroic Deathbringer's Will still being BiS after (if) announced frost changes go life? As for me - matches says it's BiS no longer, but cold logic says otherwise - I'm finding myself pretty confused about this one, particular piece of current BiS gear.

rh8452 · 02/27/10, 11:34 AM

I'm going to assume 4T9's stat weight will also go up with black ice being a significant boost to disease damage, and SS being a significantly lower proportion of our damage lowering the value of 2T10. It looks like there's several more fights where going 4T9/258 will be a DPS gain over 4T10 now. Heroic Bryntroll is looking more appealing again.

Keruen · 02/27/10, 12:34 PM

So I'm wondering something about Frost being the new sub-spec: is it still the best sub-spec now even if you don't have a shaman dropping WF in your raid?

Because it seems that this whole switch to Frost comes mostly from Icy Talons stacking with WF, and of course also the 4% more strength that we can get from the tree now. Before this change I could understand why a Frost sub-spec would be sub-optimal, because if you had WF in your raids those talent points in IT were wasted.

I know discussion in here is focused on 25man progression content, but I'm just curious if the simming done was done in a full raid-buff scenario or not (I would assume it was). And if so, what happens when you take WF out of the picture?

The reason I ask is that I mostly do only 10mans on my DK, and you're not guaranteed in any way to have a shaman in a 10man raid. So if WF isn't available, do the Frost changes matter? In other words, is it only going to be worth sub-speccing into Frost if you have a WF totem in your raids to stack the haste with?

GladiatorLupe · 02/27/10, 12:46 PM

It was said that this new frost sub-spec may get beaten out again by a blood sub-spec at heroic gear levels... how much of that is due just to the weapon? I'm getting Shadowmourne and am wondering if the weapon will be significant enough for me to stay in blood.