Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 191

Feanorr · 03/02/10, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Nahela

I get a bit of a different result using a BiS Alliance set. Things are much closer, not sure what the big difference is here.

Just a question: when you say (and other as well) BiS you are using shadowmourne for 2H right? So I guess if we compare without shadowmourne, frost will be even more ahead; on paper at least

Xenonz · 03/02/10, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Solarya

At a glance, your reaping spec has a disease uptime of only 73.5. Check to make sure you are indeed using the correct rotation, and that you are not using the glyph of Scourge Strike.

I too noticed that, I tried with different profiles and the same problem occurred. I am also positive I am using the correct Reaping-rotation, I've double checked the possibility of a mistake in the rotation xml file.

Afabar · 03/02/10, 11:41 AM

Did you look at your template, especialy virulence?

Nahela · 03/02/10, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by Feanorr

Just a question: when you say (and other as well) BiS you are using shadowmourne for 2H right? So I guess if we compare without shadowmourne, frost will be even more ahead; on paper at least

Correct. That's really the only oddity I came across. To be fair, my DW setup for the sim was also using Heroic LK weapons. Considering nobody at all has downed heroic LK yet, it will still be some time before many people get their hands on those as well. Everything I've seen/done so far shows all the specs within 2-3% of each other from a Sim standpoint, which is only a very rough gauge. Again, it looks more promising/hopeful than negative. Having each spec be a viable option is something everybody should strive for. Unholy is definitely not in any danger, it's a benefit to us as well.

JALbert · 03/02/10, 2:10 PM

Regarding double dipping, will the 5% buff aura count for each part of the Scourge Strike? I did some searching and couldn't find any data on Luck of the Draw, which I assume would work the same as the raid buff. This is unsuprising, being that LotD is a 5 man buff and EJ deals with raid encounters. However, double dipping on Blood Presence (a % damage increase buff) would imply that it would, and this would give Unholy some extra scaling as well as tweaking our sims/stat weights.

pheonix1358 · 03/02/10, 2:32 PM

Reaping versus Reapingless,

Dirge, is it worth it?

Basically I am a long time DK player and have done enough ICC encounters enough to start questioning the need for Dirge in our spec.

With Frost now being a viable subspec, and everyone talking about going UH-Sub Frost in a Reapingless build, wouldn't it also be possible to go UH-Sub Frost in a Reaping build if we drop Dirge and 1 point in Dark Conviction?

I do not expect simulators to show this being the case simply b/c sims don't use AMS to soak RP like all any good DKs does. If anything this idea would have to be tested out in raid situations. There simply are so many ICC encounters you can use AMS on CD, Sindragosa's constant AoE and Unchained Magic, LDW's constant AOE and her Blood Whirl, Putricide's Volatile Ozzes or running through green slime etc.

The reasons for doing it:

I've noticed that more often than not I simply have too much RP. And 2 BS do not do as much damage as 1 SS, in current ICC gear. Also with SS benefiting from Black Ice and going into Runic Power Mastery will allow you to soak even more RP, it would be hard to imagine Dirge being necessary for many of our builds. It only adds 20RP after our first rotation in reapingless builds. Then again not having Butcery might also kill our rp generation.

The main reason for this in my opinion would be simply b/c I never feel RP starved and quite the opposite, I feel I have too much during many encounters.

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions, go.

zagor · 03/02/10, 2:34 PM

@ JALbert
No. SS doesn't double-dip from all buffs/talents/auras. SS only double-dips from certain talents and skills as has been said in this thread and confirmed by Blizz.

Bandee · 03/02/10, 3:59 PM

Originally Posted by pheonix1358

Reaping versus Reapingless,

Dirge, is it worth it?

Basically I am a long time DK player and have done enough ICC encounters enough to start questioning the need for Dirge in our spec.

With Frost now being a viable subspec, and everyone talking about going UH-Sub Frost in a Reapingless build, wouldn't it also be possible to go UH-Sub Frost in a Reaping build if we drop Dirge and 1 point in Dark Conviction?

I do not expect simulators to show this being the case simply b/c sims don't use AMS to soak RP like all any good DKs does. If anything this idea would have to be tested out in raid situations. There simply are so many ICC encounters you can use AMS on CD, Sindragosa's constant AoE and Unchained Magic, LDW's constant AOE and her Blood Whirl, Putricide's Volatile Ozzes or running through green slime etc.

The reasons for doing it:

I've noticed that more often than not I simply have too much RP. And 2 BS do not do as much damage as 1 SS, in current ICC gear. Also with SS benefiting from Black Ice and going into Runic Power Mastery will allow you to soak even more RP, it would be hard to imagine Dirge being necessary for many of our builds. It only adds 20RP after our first rotation in reapingless builds. Then again not having Butcery might also kill our rp generation.

The main reason for this in my opinion would be simply b/c I never feel RP starved and quite the opposite, I feel I have too much during many encounters.

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions, go.

Dirge is worth it. Sims have an X RP every Y sec option.

Mathrix · 03/02/10, 4:05 PM

Any truth to the news that the 5% ICC buff has 0 effect on pets, any confirmation yet?

pheonix1358 · 03/02/10, 4:53 PM

@ Bandee

i don't think you get what i'm saying, if you take off all rp generation and ignore what we're using it for i.e. DC, then a frost reaping subspec will definitely pull ahead of one with dirge b/c you're essentially ignoring your rp generation altogether, like i said in my post, you can't run this through sims b/c every fight is different and you'd be using ams at different times each fight, yes in a sim dirge is worth it, but sims are just models of actual gameplay

nerdfuel · 03/02/10, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mathrix

Any truth to the news that the 5% ICC buff has 0 effect on pets, any confirmation yet?

I just zoned into ICC and my pet didn't get the buff but I had it.

My buffs
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2853/iccbuff.jpg

Pet buffs
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/474/iccbuff2.png

nzo · 03/02/10, 9:19 PM

Excuse the noob question, but is there any more info on whether or not Heroic [Bryntroll, the Bone Arbiter] will be BIS in 3.3.3? This would drastically affect how many guilds are dealing with their shards right now.

Or even for those of us who are dropping DKP on Heroic Cryptmakers, etc...

Anyway, any help on the value of Heroic Bryntroll in 3.3.3 will be super beneficial.

rh8452 · 03/03/10, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by pheonix1358

Reaping versus Reapingless,

Dirge, is it worth it?

Basically I am a long time DK player and have done enough ICC encounters enough to start questioning the need for Dirge in our spec.

Sims will always show Dirge being worth taking. If your raid comp is stacked with resto druids specced revitalize who are always assured to be keeping hots on you, it could be argued that the points aren't worth it any longer on a pure tank and spank boss, but this can't ever be counted on even if your raid has three trees in it.

I am going to be going the H bryntroll / enough haste to squeeze another GCD option in 3.3.3 due to the number of fights where you are going to be using a spell GCD instead of a strike one more frequently - there are just too many fights where you are out of melee range of your target, or have to target switch to a target that is not in melee range, to not want a talent that awards you extra RP, especially compared to alternatives.

With death coil frequently critting for well over 10K for me right now, its value for me is significant enough for use of a GCD to not want to waste RP. Having RPM in 3.3 + revitalize / AMS (there are more uses for this on heroic than on normal) will mean more situations where you have 120 and need the extra GCD in your rotation to dump it all. And the relative value of ArP diminishes without the 100ish provided by H cryptmaker or SE. So if anything, I myself will be aiming for -more- haste to squeeze another GCD in and thus Dirge is a very valuable talent.

ed: As for all the "is bryntroll bis now" debate, for the love of god, sim it yourself to find out if it's bis for you. If you're not getting shadowmourne and you're an orc, it probably is regardless. Your other viable options in descending order are 25-man heroic LK weapons (not likely many people if any are going to be brandishing any of those for a while yet), heroic cryptmaker, heroic warmace of menethil (LK 10 heroic), heroic bloodfall (not very well itemized for us), 25-man LK normal weapons, or PVP weapons.

Okuno · 03/03/10, 3:33 PM

I have been waiting to see if anyone touched on this.

If as an Unholy DK you obtain Shadowmourne, when the souls are fully charged (+Max Strength) would Glyph of Disease be a DPS benefit?

Simply because applying the diseases at +540 Str. and keeping them rolling with only missing out on 1 BS + GoIT.

(Basically spamming SS and DC with BS and Pest)

Or am I missing the point that GoD refreshes DoTs without carrying forward their original damage. Not sure if this sort of trick would be built into the SIM. (Or if it would even be worth it)

I have tried the math and I was having problems removing the IT damage bonus of GoIT. It seemed to pull ahead because of the ramp time being eliminated from Shadowmourne.

Pyrius · 03/03/10, 3:38 PM

It hasn't been possible to disease roll for a while now. (So, no, you can't do that with GoD.)