Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 196

micronSD · 03/12/10, 6:11 PM

Originally Posted by Angelababy

Doesn't the 5% raid wide buff in ICC make frost-sub less attractive, since the ghoul doesn't get any benefits from it? Especially when it goes up to 10, 15%+ later on?

Also, the shadow portion of SS seems to be able to crit once again in 3.3.3, it might be intentional since it hits for less now.

I just did some tests on the PTR and Im not seeing double crits.

Promethius · 03/12/10, 7:18 PM

Originally Posted by mebizzle

Can anyone attempt to verify and/or debunk my result? I'm fairly new to the simulator so I don't stray too far from the default setup but it's interesting that it's showing me that 1 out of dirge is the best way to go.

Between the two frost sub specs, it looks like you're actually comparing 2/2 dirge, 2/3 morbidity, 3/5 necrosis to 1/2 dirge, 1/3 subversion, 5/5 necrosis. You'd need a more controlled comparison of two specs where the only difference is the single point from dirge to subversion to accurately draw a conclusion.

Sahlia · 03/12/10, 7:32 PM

Originally Posted by mebizzle

I simmed 3 different specs, the 12/0/59 spec I've been using (standard 14/0/57 with 2 in Morbidity than Dark Conviction), Consider's 0/17/54 spec, and a 1/27/53 spec with one point taken from Dirge

Can anyone attempt to verify and/or debunk my result? I'm fairly new to the simulator so I don't stray too far from the default setup but it's interesting that it's showing me that 1 out of dirge is the best way to go.

For me it comes down to being a slight dps loss (3-5 dps, my dps fell from 11715 to 11711 with rotation and was 11715 in both cases for the priority, 10% dmg buff active). I might reconsider taking 1/17/53 for the 8% aggro reduce and because it might give us some more profit from soaking RP via AMS (having one or another free GCD more).

The shadow part of SS cannot seperately crit on the PTR. I did 30 SS and the shadow part didn't crit once.

mebizzle · 03/13/10, 1:18 AM

Originally Posted by Promethius

Between the two frost sub specs, it looks like you're actually comparing 2/2 dirge, 2/3 morbidity, 3/5 necrosis to 1/2 dirge, 1/3 subversion, 5/5 necrosis. You'd need a more controlled comparison of two specs where the only difference is the single point from dirge to subversion to accurately draw a conclusion.

That's odd, nice catch. Now I'm getting them with a 100 dps increase with 1/17/53 over my 0/17/54

Template:|1/17/53

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	%
MainHand	709426374	20.7	147738	4801.9	94476	63.9	3092.3	53262	36.1	7834.4
Ghoul	413234496	12	392323	1053.3	341083	86.9	938.5	51240	13.1	1817.4
ScourgeStrike	377955807	11	52111	7252.9	28511	54.7	4467.1	23600	45.3	10618.4
DeathCoil	326988636	9.5	51918	6298.2	33091	63.7	4548.3	18827	36.3	9373.7
BloodStrike	259596285	7.6	69482	3736.2	42113	60.6	2635.3	27369	39.4	5430.1
FrostFever	234624356	6.8	107711	2178.3	107711	100							98.9	98.9
ScourgeStrikeMagical	209151760	6.1	52111	4013.6	28511	54.7	2472	23600	45.3	5876
BloodPlague	196301302	5.7	107666	1823.2	107666	100							98.9	98.9
Gargoyle	157276685	4.6	33407	4707.9	29039	86.9	4164.2	4368	13.1	8322.4
Necrosis	137808925	4	147738	932.8	147738	100
WanderingPlague	116262872	3.4	58296	1994.4	58296	100
BloodCakedBlade	115236747	3.4	44294	2601.6	44294	100	2601.6
PlagueStrike	77833406	2.3	17372	4480.4	10044	57.8	2832.6	7328	42.2	6738.9
IcyTouch	70137704	2	17372	4037.4	11062	63.7	2916.7	6310	36.3	6002.1
UnholyBlight	32704756	1	51918	629.9	51918	100
DPS	9540
Total Damage	3434.54m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	5887
Generated in	24s
Rotation:	Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	HangedMan
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

Template:| 0/17/54

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	%
MainHand	709426374	20.9	147738	4801.9	94476	63.9	3092.3	53262	36.1	7834.4
Ghoul	413234496	12.2	392323	1053.3	341083	86.9	938.5	51240	13.1	1817.4
ScourgeStrike	368326005	10.9	52111	7068.1	30078	57.7	4466.7	22033	42.3	10619.4
DeathCoil	359692013	10.6	51918	6928.1	33091	63.7	5003.2	18827	36.3	10311.3
BloodStrike	253816320	7.5	69482	3653	44185	63.6	2635.2	25297	36.4	5430.7
FrostFever	234624356	6.9	107711	2178.3	107711	100							98.9	98.9
ScourgeStrikeMagical	203823213	6	52111	3911.3	30078	57.7	2471.8	22033	42.3	5876.5
BloodPlague	196301302	5.8	107666	1823.2	107666	100							98.9	98.9
Gargoyle	157276685	4.6	33407	4707.9	29039	86.9	4164.2	4368	13.1	8322.4
WanderingPlague	116262872	3.4	58296	1994.4	58296	100
BloodCakedBlade	115236747	3.4	44294	2601.6	44294	100	2601.6
Necrosis	82695782	2.4	147738	559.7	147738	100
PlagueStrike	77833406	2.3	17372	4480.4	10044	57.8	2832.6	7328	42.2	6738.9
IcyTouch	70137704	2.1	17372	4037.4	11062	63.7	2916.7	6310	36.3	6002.1
UnholyBlight	35972184	1.1	51918	692.9	51918	100
DPS	9430
Total Damage	3394.66m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	6331
Generated in	24s
Rotation:	Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	HangedMan
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

Baphomette · 03/13/10, 6:31 AM

Is there nowhere to put points that will be better than Epidemic? I have a hard time envisioning it being terribly useful without Reaping, and the numbers above seem like it's adding less than 23 (single-target) dps per talent point.

2/2 Epidemic 0/3 Reaping converts one PS and one IT into one ScS per minute over 0/2 0/3.

1 PS + 1 IT = 8517.8
1 ScS = 11266.5

making 2/2 Epi a gain of ~2748.7 damage per minute, or 45.8 dps.

I'm sure other talent points are bigger dps gains than 0.24% ... which means my reasoning is probably messed up. Can someone explain how Epidemic is still worthwhile without Reaping?

Feanorr · 03/13/10, 7:05 AM

Originally Posted by Baphomette

Is there nowhere to put points that will be better than Epidemic? I have a hard time envisioning it being terribly useful without Reaping, and the numbers above seem like it's adding less than 23 (single-target) dps per talent point.
(...)
I'm sure other talent points are bigger dps gains than 0.24% ... which means my reasoning is probably messed up. Can someone explain how Epidemic is still worthwhile without Reaping?

The only other dps talent of this tier is morbidity and you need 2 points to go to tier 3 (once you took ravenous dead); so the question is "what is best between epidemic and 2 point in morbidity?"

KnThrak · 03/13/10, 8:38 AM

Don't forget the quality-of-life benefit of Epidemic though, Bapho.

Frostx · 03/13/10, 10:20 AM

Epidemic should be even more important without Reaping as we lose a free gcd by having to do 2 BS instead of 1 SS in the second runeset. Are you being confused with thinking that we are going back to the '10 second' rotation by dropping Reaping?

rh8452 · 03/13/10, 2:29 PM

To be fair icy touch is critting for ~4-5k and plague strike crits for upwards of 7k in raids for me, making reapplication of diseases more frequently not feel like such a DPS loss as it were, in addition 0/17/54 would be benefitting from imp icy touch and black ice on that ability tacking on quite a fair bit more damage to it for the rune.

RoflCat · 03/13/10, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Baphomette

Is there nowhere to put points that will be better than Epidemic? I have a hard time envisioning it being terribly useful without Reaping, and the numbers above seem like it's adding less than 23 (single-target) dps per talent point.

2/2 Epidemic 0/3 Reaping converts one PS and one IT into one ScS per minute over 0/2 0/3.

1 PS + 1 IT = 8517.8
1 ScS = 11266.5

making 2/2 Epi a gain of ~2748.7 damage per minute, or 45.8 dps.

I'm sure other talent points are bigger dps gains than 0.24% ... which means my reasoning is probably messed up. Can someone explain how Epidemic is still worthwhile without Reaping?

To start off, runes come off cooldown at 10s interval, so 15s diseases means either you refresh it every 10s, or you'll spend 25% of the fight not having diseases up.

If that's not enough, your Blood Plague won't benefit from Rage of Rivendare unless there's blood plague on your target already.

Epidemic might not seem to do much(1-2 extra tick of diseases without GoD, since we're clipping the last tick), but the actual benefit is a lot bigger(smoother rotation, similar reasoning to 2/3 Morbidity for AoE build, etc)

In my opinion, Epidemic is a must have for all UH DKs.

Kintaran · 03/13/10, 4:57 PM

In theory you could run a 15s cycle if you cycle PS/IT/BS/SS/BS/dump, SS/BS/PS/IT/BS dump, SS/BS/SS/DC/BS/dump. But it's a clumsy rotation with 20 gcds per 30s. No room for a miss or to use excess RP.

Baphomette · 03/13/10, 5:54 PM

Originally Posted by Kintaran

In theory you could run a 15s cycle if you cycle PS/IT/BS/SS/BS/dump, SS/BS/PS/IT/BS dump, SS/BS/SS/DC/BS/dump. But it's a clumsy rotation with 20 gcds per 30s. No room for a miss or to use excess RP.

^ Yeah, sorta this. I was running 15s rotations (PS IT BS SS BS SS BS) prior to switching 4T9 out for 4T10. It makes expertise softcap much more valuable because of how tight the GCDs are, but I run with another DK so losing RoR on PS/BP isn't an issue.

Quality of life and the spare GCDs to dump excess RP definitely do favor Epidemic. Unfortunately I have a single DPS spec for ST/AoE, so it's not Epidemic vs Morbidity in my case but rather Epidemic vs ... something further up the tree. Necrosis I suppose, although Icy Talons might nudge it ahead of others.

MarshallX · 03/14/10, 4:05 PM

Could someone quickly school me on the art of using ERW?

I usually use it as an "oh fuck, dodge, need to restart" saver, but how can I use it proactively?

Frostx · 03/14/10, 4:36 PM

Best time to use it is on the pull, as that is the best chance for all your trinkets and fallen crusader will align.

~4-5 Seconds before pull pre-pot Indestructible Potion for ~97ap/2mins, then cast Army of the Dead. Follow up with:

Sigil of Virulence:
IT - PS - BS - BS - SS - <Gargoyle now if all procs are up, if not then Deathcoil x 1>
ERW
SS - SS - <Garg now at the latest. This is probably your last chance to garg before Paragon runs out> - SS - DC - HoW

If you are using Sigil of the Hanged Man then you can only garg at the second time i listed it, after your 3rd SS.
Also, doing this opening you can start your second rotation with PS - IT for disease twisting.

kc102 · 03/14/10, 4:36 PM

Any point you'd like some burst. After your first rotation for instance. And pop gargoyle after that since you have a ton of procs going.