Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 200

Consider · 03/23/10, 6:39 PM

Debuff applications have not caused procs for months now. The patch note doesn't seem indicative of any actual new change.

Originally Posted by slant

Once you get heroic Bryntroll or Shadowmourne, the additional procs from 25% passive haste and 10% proc damage from black ice push frost subspec further ahead. Without these proc weapons, it comes down to a subjective value judgment.

It's almost like this is exactly what is already said in the OP, if a bit more concisely put!

• frmorrison · 03/23/10, 7:17 PM

For more updates, you could add in the Ghoul section that Icy Talons gives 20% haste to the pet.
With that haste + ICC buff adding to the pet, that should help scaling a bit.

With regard to making the OP smaller, I would suggest posting the Ulduar and ToC AMS uses in a new post (so the content is saved) then delete it in the OP.

RoflCat · 03/24/10, 4:04 AM

I am getting a slight(20) DPS difference in favor of blood sub spec when I tried to sim with my gear.

Based on the post in page 1, the only reason I can think of is because I'm using a non-proc weapon(Warmace of Menethil) which would make the extra haste from Icy Talon not as great as Bryntroll.

Bingeljell · 03/24/10, 5:00 AM

Originally Posted by slant

Without heroic Bryntroll or Shadowmourne frost subspec sims as a vanishingly small improvement over blood; 0.4% for my character. You basically need to weigh substantial threat reduction against free interrupts and slightly superior (~5% on 4 targets) AE.

Once you get heroic Bryntroll or Shadowmourne, the additional procs from 25% passive haste and 10% proc damage from black ice push frost subspec further ahead. Without these proc weapons, it comes down to a subjective value judgment.

I did a little testing today in ICC trying both specs out to see which one works better and I find that Frost sub-spec might not be such a bad idea on fights that are more movement heavy than others simply because your pet gets a little extra strength (and therefore, damage) on the boss.

I think this was already mentioned before and I definitely noticed a dps increase. (Using Shadow's Edge atm..)

Also for now, this also means I can still pre-pot an Indestructible potion to get a little increased dps out of my Army and Ghoul.

Varag · 03/24/10, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bingeljell

I did a little testing today in ICC trying both specs out to see which one works better and I find that Frost sub-spec might not be such a bad idea on fights that are more movement heavy than others simply because your pet gets a little extra strength (and therefore, damage) on the boss.

I think this was already mentioned before and I definitely noticed a dps increase. (Using Shadow's Edge atm..)

Also for now, this also means I can still pre-pot an Indestructible potion to get a little increased dps out of my Army and Ghoul.

Another factor to consider when deciding between a Blood and Frost sub-spec is the lack of Subversion for Frost. You can't simulate it, but threat gain is noticeable when exposed to AoE situations in Icecrown.

Spandy87 · 03/24/10, 2:41 PM

Based on the marginal dps increase from going 0/17/54 over 1/17/53 the latter makes much more sense. The threat increase was definitely enough to get the first bite on BQL HM over 2 tricksing rogues. That scared me.

prime311 · 03/24/10, 3:46 PM

I'm also showing a marginal DPS increase using 1/17/53 over 0/17/54 in BiS gear with no intro rotation. 1 point taken from Dirge.

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	1029432909	22.2	147531	9349.5	49593	33.4	5138.2	60513	40.8	10577.3	884	.6	37425	25.2	3595.2
ScourgeStrike	509365628	11	53423	9534.6	28233	52.5	5780.9	25190	46.8	13741.7	346	.6
Ghoul	489056088	10.5	401793	1217.2	349454	86.8	1084.1	52339	13	2105.5	830	.2
DeathCoil	408181878	8.8	52352	7796.9	30488	57.4	5409.1	21864	41.2	11126.5	771	1.5
BloodStrike	348314241	7.5	71350	4881.8	42183	58.7	3407.2	29167	40.6	7014.4	472	.7
FrostFever	282545206	6.1	107218	2635.2	107218	100										99.8
ScourgeStrikeMagical	281652401	6.1	53423	5272.1	28233	52.8	3197.1	25190	47.2	7597.8
BloodPlague	237527550	5.1	107503	2209.5	107503	100										99.8
Gargoyle	202545877	4.4	34246	5914.4	29857	85.9	5244.5	4389	12.6	10471.9	519	1.5
Necrosis	200003946	4.3	147531	1355.7	147531	100
BloodCakedBlade	154472907	3.3	43995	3511.1	43995	99.3	3511.1				318	.7
WanderingPlague	153399456	3.3	63666	2409.4	63666	98.5					959	1.5
PlagueStrike	113154780	2.4	18514	6111.8	9759	52.4	3703.5	8755	47	8796.4	106	.6
IcyTouch	93011842	2	18519	5022.5	10732	57.1	3474	7787	41.4	7156.7	276	1.5
Shadowmourne	55331794	1.2	33410	1656.1	33410	99.2	1656.1				256	.8				46.4
AotD	46196708	1	239435	192.9	208322	86.9	191.9	31113	13	199.7	398	.2
UnholyBlight	40821122	.9	52352	779.7	52352	100
DPS	12903(+/- 1265)
Total Damage	4645.01m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	8740
Generated in	68s
Template:	0_17_54_Reapingless
Priority:	Unholy
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	1029916944	22.1	147536	9353.5	49544	33.4	5138.4	60566	40.8	10580.5	884	.6	37426	25.2	3594.4
ScourgeStrike	522451447	11.2	53453	9774	26591	49.4	5779.6	26862	49.9	13728.2	346	.6
Ghoul	489026571	10.5	401831	1217	349575	86.8	1084.5	52256	13	2103.3	807	.2
DeathCoil	380852955	8.2	48891	7789.8	28504	57.5	5403.7	20387	41.1	11126.1	719	1.4
BloodStrike	355918308	7.7	71355	4988	40120	55.9	3409.7	31235	43.5	7015.2	472	.7
ScourgeStrikeMagical	288984579	6.2	53453	5406.3	26591	49.7	3197.5	26862	50.3	7592.9
FrostFever	285164223	6.1	108143	2636.9	108143	100										99.7
BloodPlague	240119698	5.2	108638	2210.3	108638	100										99.8
Gargoyle	202330884	4.4	34180	5919.6	29763	85.7	5242.8	4417	12.7	10479.8	532	1.5
Necrosis	200097991	4.3	147536	1356.3	147536	100
BloodCakedBlade	154685091	3.3	43998	3515.7	43998	99.3	3515.7				318	.7
WanderingPlague	154661142	3.3	64126	2411.8	64126	98.5					966	1.5
PlagueStrike	113048630	2.4	18513	6106.4	9771	52.5	3703.3	8742	47	8792.5	106	.6
IcyTouch	93144550	2	18523	5028.6	10708	57	3479.5	7815	41.6	7151.2	276	1.5
Shadowmourne	55545865	1.2	33542	1656	33542	99.2	1656				257	.8				46.6
AotD	46303631	1	239331	193.5	207763	86.6	192.7	31568	13.2	198.4	530	.2
UnholyBlight	38087872	.8	48891	779	48891	100
DPS	12918(+/- 1280)
Total Damage	4650.34m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	8022
Generated in	40s
Template:	1_17_53_reapingless
Priority:	Unholy
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	951237800	20.6	128106	9940.7	40455	31.4	5382.5	55236	42.9	11071.9	765	.6	32415	25.2	3761.2
ScourgeStrike	765722471	16.6	70959	10791.1	29674	41.5	5992.8	41285	57.8	14239.9	470	.7
Ghoul	432915355	9.4	365210	1185.4	317566	86.8	1058.7	47644	13	2030	739	.2
DeathCoil	412060166	8.9	57045	7223.4	32077	55.4	4936.6	24968	43.1	10161.3	830	1.4
ScourgeStrikeMagical	391148085	8.5	70959	5512.3	29674	41.8	3061.6	41285	58.2	7273.8
FrostFever	263254449	5.7	109497	2404.2	109497	100										99.6
BloodPlague	222319666	4.8	109991	2021.3	109991	100										99.6
BloodStrike	194763491	4.2	35706	5454.6	17209	47.9	3524.3	18497	51.5	7250.6	229	.6
Necrosis	184815863	4	128106	1442.7	128106	100
Gargoyle	174902505	3.8	29194	5991	25436	85.7	5307.7	3758	12.7	10616.1	473	1.6
WanderingPlague	148226004	3.2	67339	2201.2	67339	98.5					1017	1.5
BloodCakedBlade	140664375	3.1	38215	3680.9	38215	99.3	3680.9				281	.7
PlagueStrike	119797999	2.6	18514	6470.7	9361	50.3	3855.4	9153	49.2	9145.4	106	.6
IcyTouch	74954890	1.6	18513	4048.8	10328	55	2757.3	8185	43.6	5678.4	276	1.5
Shadowmourne	50532511	1.1	30550	1654.1	30550	99.2	1654.1				231	.8				42.4
AotD	42313681	.9	214467	197.3	186681	86.8	197.4	27786	12.9	196.8	530	.2
UnholyBlight	41202033	.9	57045	722.3	57045	100
DPS	12808(+/- 1287)
Total Damage	4610.83m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	6656
Generated in	196s
Template:	Unholy 17-00-54-3
Priority:	Unholy
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	Virulence
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

micronSD · 03/24/10, 4:53 PM

That may have something to do with the fact that "Shadowmourne" procced 132 more times in the 1/17/53 test.

Mathrix · 03/24/10, 6:01 PM

I'm subspeced frost and so now I prepot with Potion of Speed. However there is not enough time to get 3 stacks of Sigil of the Hanged Man up before popping Gargoyle. I assume it's better to just make sure you have the potion active but I'm not sure how Gargoyle scales with haste vs. Str. Any thoughts?

prime311 · 03/24/10, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mathrix

I'm subspeced frost and so now I prepot with Potion of Speed. However there is not enough time to get 3 stacks of Sigil of the Hanged Man up before popping Gargoyle. I assume it's better to just make sure you have the potion active but I'm not sure how Gargoyle scales with haste vs. Str. Any thoughts?

IT>PS>BS>SS>ERW>SS>SS>Garg

Eyn · 03/24/10, 8:41 PM

I recently noticed something interresting: When i specced from Frost DW to Unholy 2H and forgot to change my weapons, but to my suprise i lost very little dps.
So, yesterday i played around with the Team Robot Simulator (3.3.3 Version), to see what spec would be the best with my equip (2pc t10, pretty much everything from 219-264). Turned out that the new Frost subspec without Reaping would do the best DPS for me. So, i thought to myself, now that haste is buffing our auto attack, why not take some points out of Black Ice and put them in Nerves of cold Steel?
My 2H Weapon is (nonhero) Citadel Enforcer's Claymore so i choose 2x (nonhero) Gutburster for simulating because of their similar stats (same ilvl, bot having crit+hit).
Unholy 2H: ~8580DPS (without Nerves of cold Steel, but 5/5 Black Ice)
Unholy DW: ~8770DPS (with Nerves of cold Steel and 2/5 Black Ice)

Is this something with the simulator or is DWing really better at some point?

Corinthian · 03/25/10, 1:40 AM

I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed anything odd with the DKDPS module in Rawr. Specifically regarding haste.

I switched to the 0/17/54 spec, and ran the optimizer for kicks. The results are pretty strange, as it's valuing haste as slightly better than crit to the point that it's recommending I switch meta to the [Thundering Skyflare Diamond].

This can't be right, can it? Has anyone else seen similar come out of Rawr that can corroborate?

Bobfred21 · 03/25/10, 2:36 AM

Originally Posted by Eyn

I recently noticed something interresting: When i specced from Frost DW to Unholy 2H and forgot to change my weapons, but to my suprise i lost very little dps.
So, yesterday i played around with the Team Robot Simulator (3.3.3 Version), to see what spec would be the best with my equip (2pc t10, pretty much everything from 219-264). Turned out that the new Frost subspec without Reaping would do the best DPS for me. So, i thought to myself, now that haste is buffing our auto attack, why not take some points out of Black Ice and put them in Nerves of cold Steel?
My 2H Weapon is (nonhero) Citadel Enforcer's Claymore so i choose 2x (nonhero) Gutburster for simulating because of their similar stats (same ilvl, bot having crit+hit).
Unholy 2H: ~8580DPS (without Nerves of cold Steel, but 5/5 Black Ice)
Unholy DW: ~8770DPS (with Nerves of cold Steel and 2/5 Black Ice)

Is this something with the simulator or is DWing really better at some point?

My unholy set is using Ramaladni's Blade of Culling, my DW set is stuck with 232 weapons (Black Ice and Nighttime respectively) and simming with Kahories I noticed a 101 DPS upgrade when moving from 2H to DW.

Spuddelkopf · 03/25/10, 6:02 AM

When I'm going from 00/17/54 2h with [Shadow's Edge] to 00/17/54 with 2/5 BI and 3/3 NoCS using two [Bloodvenom Blade] in Kahorie's my DPS drops by more than 400 and that is with weapons of the same item level and the fact I'm using a non-proc 2h weapon with frost-sub. So I have no idea how you can get a dps increase.

Edit: DW setup with FC on main hand and tried every possible off hand enchant.

Valtiel · 03/25/10, 6:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bingeljell

Ran 17/54 in ICC today on the LK in 25 man.

I had absolutely no problems with threat in the first 2 phases. Of course, We did have a rogue chain ToTing the MT.

I also found that my pet was doing a lot more damage.

One reason is that I've definitely gotten better gear but the other, I'm 100% sure, is the extra strength from Nerves of Cold steel. (DUH! Right? But it's a significant increase to my overall dps.)

I sim 150 more dps with the frost sub-spec than I do with the blood sub-spec and it shows on the meters in-game as well.

Will mess with the sim and see how 1/17/53 works for me. I'm also going to sim GoD with 1/17/53 or 17/54 to see if that makes a difference. I'm sure re-rolling diseases with all my procs up should help. (At least in theory)

The only sensible buff with which you would want to roll diseases with would be a DBW crit procc, and nobody is using 4p9 anymore. Diseases scale only with AP at this point and AP is the only stat you can't roll on GoD sustainance.