You can roll TotT and Cinderglacier procs.

Quick clarification though, don't your diseases take a snapshot of your current AP(buffs?) when you do actually hit pest?
If that's the case you can always just hit Pest to refresh your diseases when all your procs are up. (Even if it's a little before your dots actually fall off.) You lose a blood-strike but gain that much more disease damage for the whole rotation and an extra SS. (Which is the point of GoD).
(Does that make sense?)

I play with around 600+ latency which really messes with things in case there's any movement involved, so that's probably a good reason for me to stick to the standard glyphs. Thankfully though no-reaping in the frost subspec for unholy and I'm less worried about my rotation.

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As far as DW is concerned, I just simmed my character with 1/53/17 - 0/54/17 - 0/53/18 and all of them simmed at anywhere between 100-250dps less than what I would get by going 2H Unholy.
I swapeed out Shadow's Edge for Bloodvenom Blade.

So I'm content with being Unholy 2h for now.

I think the problem here is the times that rolling diseases without any trinket proc'd will be greater then times you actually can, and plus the dps you are losing by taking out the GoIT will not be made up. Especially if you think about trinkets like DBW and is up for 30 secs but has a 60 ICD (I believe) and if you are using DV/WFS which has a 45 ICD And my trinkets seem to proc relatively close together in the beginning of the fight, so that's going to leave 35 secs or so with nothing to proc. GoIT is just the way to go, and also having something extra to be watching for may overwhelm some players too.

Was replacing GoDD not GoIT.

Morbidity is not something I've put 3 points in anyway and while there are definitely times where I have only 2 procs up instead of 4 (etc) I'm still saving a Frost and an Unholy rune for a SS. And as I mentioned you can reroll the disease once a few more procs line up since you'll be losing only 1 BS. (I was using pst on the LK attempt everytime I had at least 3 procs up, and at least as far as AE damage is concerned it really helped.)

The reasoning in my head was that frankly on a Saurfang like fight: The total damage done by Wandering Plague + Frost Fever + Blood Plague is well over at least 3 times the damage BS does.
Wouldn't it make sense to actually increase the damage of FF, BP and WP by that much more while giving up a BS every 2nd or 3rd rotation depending on your trinkets and ICDs so you can reroll the diseases with your procs up. (0/17/54, btw. I am aware BS accounts for even less damage with 14/0/57 - reaping.) Additionally, not only do your diseases do more damage but you also save the F-U runes for an extra SS.

Again, does this make any sense?

Edit: A quick search of some logs on WoL for some DKs and their damage: Unholy DK's.
Here's the log of one of the top damage DKs: Darkape - WoL report .

His WP + BP + FF did a total damage of a whopping 439k where is BS did a total of about a 100k.

Don't you think losing a BS every now and then to just re-roll the disease with max procs on will result in a net DPS increase?

offtopic: Also where in the world are all the DKs? None seem to show up as top damage on the rankings page!!

I brought this topic up in the DK forums on the official site. We don't seem to be scaling as well as other classes.

Since we're not using 4t9 their is no procs we can roll diseases with except cinderglacier which is only viable in a few fights.(you can also roll diseases with tricks though which is the more usual benefit)

Any class that can actually roll a dot should benefit more from a tricks then a class that isn't. Warlocks rolling corruption would be the best use of a first tricks, unholy dk's rolling diseases would be second. Remember this will also increase your wandering plague damage. Some DK's did this last patch(most notably the DK's in paragon) but this patch I just don't see it being viable. I really don't see any argument for GoD right now.

Since most dk's are sporting the 0/17/54 build all 3 glyphs we use are superior to GoD even with tricks.

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

Looking at these two parses DC is a pretty significant portion of our damage. In the second parse it's kind of evident I wasted a few globals and missed crucial death coils but it still comes out to 8% of my damage and hitting for an average of 7.1k. In Liha's parse it's his 3rd most damaging ability hitting for close to 7,500 per dc(he did have 50% dc crit rate though) and doing almost 11% of his dmg.


As far as top WoL/WMO parses there's a few blood dk's on putricide (which I have no idea how they're top dps there, rather impressive.) The only other fight I can see DPS competing among other classes for top dps parses is Sindragosa, where currently I have the 9th highest parse on WoL, 5th on WMO(#1 on WMO actually is an unholy death knight also) Death Knights simply don't scale as well or get catered to like other classes. We're still a very viable class with good damage and very good mitigation/survivability but I just don't see us competing for top parses among all classes like we could in ToC.

Hi first time poster here and just wated to say thanks for everyone who keeps this thread rollling!!! Anyways my question is this. I just switched to enginering and I wanted to know the best way to use saronite bombs? Is there a macro that works or just a specific time to use them? Thanks in advance:}
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hm, I disagree, but only because I'm currently keeping up with rogues on hardmode deathbringer as unholy, and they outgear me. Maybe this will change at max gear levels, but tbh we're pretty close to it. If you look at WoL overall rankings, unholy dks are behind blood dks (on that fight) because of hysteria, but we're far from falling behind other classes in general. As it stands now all the strength dps classes have their niches, and they all do comparable damage when played right in their respective niche areas.

There is no reason to bring class X over an unholy dk for purely dps reasons, unless gear is a factor.

The one thing I will admit, up until recently I had the #1 parse for unholy dks on HM DBS (I think this week I came in at number 4 last I checked), but in the actual raid I ended up third, and was beaten by a rogue and a hunter, neither of whom were near the top of their class rankings although they are excellent dpsers. So I will concede that maybe on simply mindless fights like that, we lack in top end, on every movement fight we shine. Also, when looking at those logs, the reason there is such a huge disparity between other classes and unholy dks is because in general those players get fed Hysteria and TotT. This does not mean that they generally perform better than dks. They just have the luxury of benefiting extremely well from those things.

on that note, it seems kind of impossible to actually calculate 1/17/53 versus 0/17/54 simply because the real differences you'll see are only ever going to be on contingent examples (in practice at least). On HM Sindragosa, the ice tombs need to go down at a certain speed. Say you have time enough for a few globals on a tomb that's left over. Suppose taking that point in Subversion causes you to crit with a SS. The continuous dps, or at least the continuous white swings with necrosis that you find in sims stops after that crit if the tomb dies. In situations like this, the subversion spec comes out on top, but in situations where you are in melee range 100% of the time, 0/17/54 potentially wins out.

Again in practice I don't see a reason to actually take 0/17/54 over 1/17/53, since the threat difference is a valuable consideration not apparent in this discussion, and although its difficult to actually show math for it, on most fights 1/17/53 can actually be a dps increase if rng is good to you. Pragmatically speaking it makes much more sense.

The threat difference is not valuable. For it to matter, you have to raid without any Fury Warriors or Frost DKs (both of which do more damage and produce more threat even when doing equal damage), because they would be having issues before you would. Or, politeness aside, your tanks would just have to be bad, of course!

As for RNG, what if there was a talent which granted 0.0001% crit? If that caused you to SS on an Ice Block, it would beat Necrosis, so clearly you should spec into it! Your logic is ludicrous - Subversion might beat Necrosis in such a situation, but it might also not. The fact is that, the majority of the time, it won't, and even on the minority of times that it does, you can't predict that it will or expect it to.

3% chance to crit is just that - a chance. Nothing more.

I agree that it makes a lot of sense to take as much rng out of it as possible if theres no dps difference, I just think 3% is substantial enough to warrant 1 talent point, especially if you get any form of threat reduction. The very minor dps increase you might get from going 5/5 necrosis over subversion doesn't make up the practical difference of threat reduction. Although this might be apples and oranges, I still can't see any reason not to get subversion. Just because warriors threat at a certain way doesn't mean dks should. If it comes down to a situation where you actually have to watch threat like say, deathwhisper hardmode (even if you're on the add crew), its the warrior's responsibility to not pull, and if that threshold is lower for a DK then then it makes life that much easier. There's even an argument somewhere that would suggest you can do more dps relative to other classes based on not having to ease off due to threat as fast, but that's neither here nor there.

I can see going 0/17/54 if its a difference of like 50-100+dps in practice, but it doesn't seem to be the case, at least from what I've tested so far.

Yeah, there isn't a situation where Subversion is bad or you wouldn't want it, there's simply situations where the threat reduction aspect is quite literally worthless and the damage it grants is subpar compared to the alternatives.

This is where I have to fundamentally disagree. This isn't vanilla, or even BC. In this day and age, it's the tank's responsibility in such a situation, not the dpsers. Threat should be a non-issue if your tank is remotely competent. If in equal gear they can't hold aggro over you, an Unholy DK, it's their failing, not yours.

You could argue that everyone should spec Blood because of the self-heals, and it's your responsibility to not die to (say) a Frostbolt Volley on H Deathwhisper, but obviously you wouldn't. It's the healers' job to heal you from unavoidable raid damage, just as it's the tanks' job to pick up the adds and hold aggro (and the dpsers' job to do as much damage as possible while avoiding avoidable damage).

Although you can play around the failings of others, it's ultimately better (both for you and for the raid as a whole) to do your own job in a superlative manner and, if necessary, help them learn how to do theirs. Not gimp your personal performance to cover for the weakness(es) in their own. Doing the first, you both win, and thus so does the raid. Doing the second, you may or may not manage to kill the boss, but even if you do, your tanks aren't going to improve, and you're going to have to continue to handicap yourself to cover for them.

And, for what it matters, I tanked for all of the previous expansion, and the first half of this one. I'm quite familiar with it. The fact is, tanks have certain responsibilities, and although you might be able to make up for a tank slacking on them, you shouldn't have to, and there are better ways to work through the issue.