Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 202

Spandy87 · 03/26/10, 12:31 AM

I take your point.

on a more specific issue, which I haven't noticed mentioned, with disease twisting. The new frost subspec gives us quite a lot of haste, and on the times when we need to refresh icy touch first, the faster GCD makes the subsequent blood plague tick more than a GCD away. Do you guys think its worth it to wait on refreshing BP and pop off another gcd?

Consider · 03/26/10, 12:38 AM

The haste from Icy Talons doesn't affect the gcd, spell or otherwise, due to its nature. Disease juggling (or twisting, whatever one calls it!) is still worth doing, even if IT falls off for a second or two.

Spandy87 · 03/26/10, 12:43 AM

ah okay thanks

Prejac · 03/26/10, 1:24 AM

On the subject of Disease Twisting/Juggling, I'm feeling slightly retarded. I've read, and re-read the posts by Potlol and the others that commented on it 20+ pages back, but I'm not completely understanding it. Could someone that's done it and has it down try to explain it in a different way possibly?

Helheimr · 03/26/10, 1:44 AM

Refresh the longer disease that is sub-3 seconds first. Since this makes the other fall off (hence the extra tick), the next cycle it will be the longer duration disease. Hence twisting. Fits in normally with rotations, so there's no special waiting required as well.

Spandy87 · 03/26/10, 1:53 AM

helps to see it if you have bars showing your diseases

Prejac · 03/26/10, 2:07 AM

I'm using NeedToKnow to track Desolation, Frost Fever, and Blood Plague. So if I'm understanding this right then, you refresh the disease that has more time left on it so that the other runs its complete cycle, then refresh it. Next rune rotation do the opposite?

Spandy87 · 03/26/10, 2:07 AM

I gotta recommend fortexorcist to show diseases. It shows the actual ticks.

eventually · 03/26/10, 2:16 AM

Originally Posted by Spandy87

I gotta recommend fortexorcist to show diseases. It shows the actual ticks.

NeedToKnow with a customized texture to show disease ticks gets the job done, if you're like me and prefer to not have clunky addons that spam.

Annu · 03/26/10, 2:58 AM

Originally Posted by Hopefire

I brought this topic up in the DK forums on the official site. We don't seem to be scaling as well as other classes.

Thanks for this. I've been googling looking for some confirmation, etc.

Gone over my spec, rechecked everything. Looked at my gear. Swapped some ArP for Str via gear. Started to wonder if I should do an application repair. Some of it is surely lazy or inaccurate application of the rotation, but something is wrong too. I'm not near where I was a week or two ago, relative to others I raid with.

I'm about about 258 GS average, with Brynn... thinking of spending for Shadow's Edge and returning to Blood sub... because I'm out of ideas. I was about to respec from 1/17/53 [from Dirge] to 0/17/54 before reading this.

***Today's (3/26) reinstall/patch of 3.3.3 seems to have corrected the issues, whatever the sources of them were.

Valtiel · 03/26/10, 5:19 AM

Originally Posted by Consider

This is where I have to fundamentally disagree. This isn't vanilla, or even BC. In this day and age, it's the tank's responsibility in such a situation, not the dpsers. Threat should be a non-issue if your tank is remotely competent. If in equal gear they can't hold aggro over you, an Unholy DK, it's their failing, not yours.

Our Frost DW dk wasn't pulling aggro on 12.5k dps on Rotface while the feral tank was kiting. During early bloodlust static fights we often see our fury warrior scratching 17k dps with all proccs aligned, and still he's not even close to pulling. Seriously, in WotLK there's no such a thing as threat control. I haven't even installed Omen since release, since it's fundamentally impossible to pull aggro from a decent tank.

Glutton · 03/26/10, 5:29 AM

Those aren't the situations where higher threat modifier classes like Fury, Ret, or Warlocks are likely to pull. Raging Spirits on Heroic LK are a perfect example of a rapid target switch situation where I keep my eyes glued to Omen and hold back when necessary.

Valtiel · 03/26/10, 5:46 AM

Originally Posted by Glutton

Those aren't the situations where higher threat modifier classes like Fury, Ret, or Warlocks are likely to pull. Raging Spirits on Heroic LK are a perfect example of a rapid target switch situation where I keep my eyes glued to Omen and hold back when necessary.

That's a sensible case, but if I'm not careful, I will pull aggro on Raging Spirits even if specced for Subversion. There's a solid difference between doing too much threat over time (which is why you would specc Sub) and handling initial aggro snaps. I would say 15% less threat will hardly make a difference on Raging Spirits and similar situations.

Spandy87 · 03/26/10, 3:39 PM

Its still 15%, and heroic LK is only one example. I'm not sure what your role is on heroic BQL, but we usually have a set few people expecting to get the first bite, namely, the rogues. Not having subversion WAS enough to get the first bite, and cause confusion that eventually led to a wipe. Granted its more of an issue if you're not used to it, but if I can prevent a wipe while doing arguably the same amount of damage... why not?

There really isn't much of a threat issue in so far as its traditionally thought of, as in pulling from tanks. You guys are totally right that we're a far cry from vanilla and BC in that regard especially, but I'd rather be safe than sorry y'know? Like, why potentially add that element to the fight when the dps difference isn't noticeable? I'm all about making things easier if it doesn't jeopardize my dps output.

Anyway I guess its just my preference in that case.

For the purposes of this thread I'll concede the point.

prime311 · 03/26/10, 5:43 PM

I think it's worth noting in the first post that Unholy is better DPS then Blood in gear sets that might not have multiple BiS pieces and all 264+ yet. It is a reason why to spec Unholy, even if its likely to fall behind as it becomes more realistic to get Exp and ArP capped. While I'm not sure how it fairs at this gear level compared to Frost, that will be highly dependent on what weapons you have gotten anyway. I would imagine any progression guild DK will have a viable 264+ 2h, but they may not have 1h's to even support a Frost spec yet.