Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 204

• frmorrison · 03/27/10, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Consider

@ Xevozz: I have the sub-frost stat weights done (they're hardly any different), I simply haven't decided how to add them. Having two sets of weights - one for Blood and one for Frost - seems a bit clunky, as it would lead to 8 total weights (due to the different gear levels), and would mean I would have to make two sets of tables for the two gemming sections, which is an annoying hassle. On the other hand, having just one set of weights - Frost - doesn't help those who still use a Blood subspec. It doesn't help that the differences between the two are just so minor, which makes deciding how to present it that much more difficult.

You could do something like this (Frost sub-spec weight in parentheses):
gear 245
str 3 (3.1)
crit 1.7 (1.8)

Gemming is going to be the same, I would ignore messing with the gem table but listing the stat weights may make a difference for someone.

I'll admit that I thought haste slightly increases the value of the next point in haste. I went into Rawr for DK and toggled Windfury and saw haste increase its value. Granted Rawr for DK isn't as good as the simulator, but I didn't think it was that inaccurate.

Certainly for Ret more haste increases haste value.

Bingeljell · 03/27/10, 11:30 AM

For those DK's who're currently being asked to spec in to desecration for 25M- LK; I've found 12/0/59 seems to sim the highest dps. If I were to modify the base 14/0/57 spec, 2 points from Dark Conviction to Desecration works.

I simmed a few different versions by swapping points around between Necrosis, Morbidity and BcB but found it best to take the 2 points from Dark Conviction for Desecration.
The DPS loss by going Desecration in the 0/17/54 build and swapping 2 points from Necrosis or BcB in to desecration was much higher and it made more sense for me to go back to the Blood subspec.

I'm not sure I can make a generalization but I'd say if you had to be the DK with desecration, I'd go blood sub-spec even if I had a proc weapon.

Some Figures:

12/0/59 - with 2/3 Morbidity - 3/5 Necrosis and 2/2 Desecration is a 150 DPS loss from my max dps spec.
12/0/59 - with 2/3 Morbidity - 1/3 BcB and 2/2 Desecration is a 200 DPS loss..
0/17/54 - 3/5 Necrosis is almost a 400 DPS loss
---------------------------
12/0/59 - 0/3 Morbidity, 5/5 Necrosis and 3/3 BcB was only a 75 DPS loss.

Anyone else getting similar figures?

dr_AllCOM3 · 03/27/10, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Bingeljell

For those DK's who're currently being asked to spec in to desecration for 25M- LK;

Desecration doesn't work there anymore.

• frmorrison · 03/27/10, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

Desecration doesn't work there anymore.

This log from Wednesday at least says the Vak's gained that debuff:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I thought if they were immune to that slow, then it wouldn't show up there.

prime311 · 03/27/10, 1:51 PM

Since Death Coil is hitting harder then Blood Strike, isn't it worth nothing that using a maxRP Death Coil is better damage then a Blood Strike if/when given the choice? For non-reaping spec that is.

Bandee · 03/27/10, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by rh8452

Bladed armor + morbidity together > black ice.

Frost is better on a tank and spank fight -with a proc weapon-. Without a proc weapon they're about the same +/- 200 dps, as the dozens of sims previously conducted in this thread have stated.

Frost is no better and is actually in practice worse when away from the boss on most fights. Deathwhisper HM add DPS without reduced death and decay cooldown while running away from ghosts? Not fun. And yes, threat reduction on such fights is a godsend. I already had adds hitting me in the face frequently as sub blood on that fight, doing it sub frost was much worse. The ability to consistently drop a DnD midair while being knocked back by slimes on Putricide or having to stand out with Unbound Plague? Sub blood gives you more opportunities to use up your runes and keep them used than sub frost does, when out of melee range.

You do more damage while away from your target if you're subspec'd frost. Higher disease damage and ghoul damage. Also, there's no point in debating which spec is better since it is dependent on your gear. If your gear is lower quality, you'll see a bigger increase with blood. Just sim it, and use the spec that gives the highest dps. I don't even have to use Bryntroll and I still see a larger dps gain as frost.

Fahar · 03/27/10, 4:37 PM

Ok I just got Oathbinder, Charge of the Ranger-General.

After the sim Sub Blood (with reaping) is pulling ahead Sub Frost by +/-300 dps.

Here are the numbers.

Ability| Damage done|||| hits||| Crits||| Misses|| Glances|| Uptime|
|Total| %| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| %|
MainHand| 723793187| 20.2| 133392| 7248.2| 49893| 37.4| 4107.2| 49965| 37.5| 8456.2| | | 33534| 25.1| 2873.4| |
ScourgeStrike| 586627944| 16.4| 70972| 8265.6| 33649| 47.4| 4793| 37323| 52.6| 11396.4| | | | | | |
Ghoul| 368502925| 10.3| 367067| 1003.9| 319324| 87| 896.7| 47743| 13| 1721| | | | | | |
DeathCoil| 340770594| 9.5| 58626| 5812.6| 37682| 64.3| 4214.9| 20944| 35.7| 8687.2| | | | | | |
ScourgeStrikeMagical| 291322500| 8.1| 70972| 4104.8| 33649| 47.4| 2380.4| 37323| 52.6| 5659.3| | | | | | |
FrostFever| 215971077| 6| 107999| 1999.8| 107999| 100| | | | | | | | | | 99.9|
BloodPlague| 180507255| 5| 108000| 1671.4| 108000| 100| | | | | | | | | | 99.9|
BloodStrike| 151382435| 4.2| 36000| 4205.1| 19212| 53.4| 2814.3| 16788| 46.6| 5796.7| | | | | | |
Gargoyle| 148690553| 4.1| 30859| 4818.4| 26820| 86.9| 4259.6| 4039| 13.1| 8528.7| | | | | | |
Necrosis| 140630684| 3.9| 133392| 1054.3| 133392| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
BloodCakedBlade| 112777830| 3.1| 40035| 2817| 40035| 100| 2817| | | | | | | | | |
WanderingPlague| 109707502| 3.1| 60009| 1828.2| 60009| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
PlagueStrike| 89574115| 2.5| 18514| 4838.2| 10426| 56.3| 3017.8| 8088| 43.7| 7184.8| | | | | | |
IcyTouch| 59592873| 1.7| 18514| 3218.8| 11883| 64.2| 2333.2| 6631| 35.8| 4805.9| | | | | | |
UnholyBlight| 34079916| 1| 58626| 581.3| 58626| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
AotD| 33242576| .9| 212995| 156.1| 185113| 86.9| 156.1| 27882| 13.1| 156.1| | | | | | |
DPS| 9964(+/- 907)
Total Damage| 3587.17m | in 100h
Threat Per Second| 5118
Generated in |26s
Template:| Unholy 17-00-54-3
Rotation: |Unholy-Reaping
Presence: |Blood
Sigil: |HangedMan
RuneEnchant: |FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation: |True
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ability| Damage done|||| hits||| Crits||| Misses|| Glances|| Uptime|
|Total| %| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| %|
MainHand| 776979282| 22.4| 153389| 6772.2| 60303| 39.3| 3893.2| 54428| 35.5| 8025.3| | | 38658| 25.2| 2726.6| |
Ghoul| 413721973| 11.9| 402781| 1027.2| 349983| 86.9| 914.4| 52798| 13.1| 1774.8| | | | | | |
ScourgeStrike| 367580148| 10.6| 51026| 7203.8| 29859| 58.5| 4585.2| 21167| 41.5| 10897.7| | | | | | |
DeathCoil| 364263625| 10.5| 53485| 6810.6| 35449| 66.3| 5017| 18036| 33.7| 10335.8| | | | | | |
BloodStrike| 249301389| 7.2| 66890| 3727| 43027| 64.3| 2704.9| 23863| 35.7| 5570| | | | | | |
ScourgeStrikeMagical| 197441009| 5.7| 51026| 3869.4| 29859| 58.5| 2462.8| 21167| 41.5| 5853.7| | | | | | |
BloodPlague| 194246747| 5.6| 107114| 1813.5| 107114| 100| | | | | | | | | | 98.6|
FrostFever| 192676514| 5.6| 106666| 1806.4| 106666| 100| | | | | | | | | | 98.6|
Gargoyle| 173148138| 5| 35999| 4809.8| 31281| 86.9| 4252.2| 4718| 13.1| 8507| | | | | | |
BloodCakedBlade| 123060711| 3.5| 46014| 2674.4| 46014| 100| 2674.4| | | | | | | | | |
WanderingPlague| 103282375| 3| 57054| 1810.3| 57054| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
Necrosis| 90581637| 2.6| 153389| 590.5| 153389| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
PlagueStrike| 79404507| 2.3| 17486| 4541| 10222| 58.5| 2886.3| 7264| 41.5| 6869.6| | | | | | |
IcyTouch| 69040394| 2| 17486| 3948.3| 11604| 66.4| 2910| 5882| 33.6| 5996.7| | | | | | |
UnholyBlight| 36428224| 1.1| 53485| 681.1| 53485| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
AotD| 35999806| 1| 237691| 151.5| 206736| 87| 150.6| 30955| 13| 156.9| | | | | | |
DPS| 9631(+/- 888)
Total Damage| 3467.16m | in 100h
Threat Per Second| 6379
Generated in |27s
Template:| Unholy 00-17-54
Rotation: |Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence: |Blood
Sigil: |HangedMan
RuneEnchant: |FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation: |True

My question is:

1) Does the lack of Streangth on Oathbinder make sub frost a dps loss or did I miss something on my sim?

Bingeljell · 03/27/10, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

Desecration doesn't work there anymore.

Another Raid WoL report from a few days ago: Shows Desecration debuff gained by the Val'kyr Shadowguard.

Can someone confirm if this has changed?

Nyriph · 03/27/10, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by Bingeljell

Another Raid WoL report from a few days ago: Shows Desecration debuff gained by the Val'kyr Shadowguard.

Can someone confirm if this has changed?

I have noticed it not working for a couple weeks now I think. I would use it and they seemed to go really fast still followed it up with a CoI and they slowed waaaay down. Unless somehow CoI is slowing it past the 50% mark somehow...

Medestruit · 03/27/10, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by Nyriph

I have noticed it not working for a couple weeks now I think. I would use it and they seemed to go really fast still followed it up with a CoI and they slowed waaaay down. Unless somehow CoI is slowing it past the 50% mark somehow...

Chains of Ice slows 95% initially and the slow loses 10% slow strength as time ticks by. So yes, of course you'll notice they slow way down with CoI up, since it is nearly twice as powerful, though at the cost of a frost rune compared to an attack that works off abilities you normally use your runes for.

zagor · 03/27/10, 6:27 PM

At the cost of going offtopic here, it was my understanding that all slows on Valks were limited to 50%. For that reason Desecration was favored (50% for no extra cost), and COI would start as 50% slow and go down to 40%, 30% etc. making it not that good.

dr_AllCOM3 · 03/27/10, 6:28 PM

No aoe snare works there. Desecration is far too small and unreliable anyway.
Chains does not start with 50%, it's simply capped at 50%.

micronSD · 03/27/10, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fahar

Ok I just got Oathbinder, Charge of the Ranger-General.

After the sim Sub Blood (with reaping) is pulling ahead Sub Frost by +/-300 dps.

Here are the numbers.

....

My question is:

1) Does the lack of Streangth on Oathbinder make sub frost a dps loss or did I miss something on my sim?

Your Frost subspec isnt using glyph of Icy Touch.

Sahlia · 03/27/10, 7:48 PM

Originally Posted by Fahar

My question is:

1) Does the lack of Streangth on Oathbinder make sub frost a dps loss or did I miss something on my sim?

No it isn't. Inputting your Armory stats (after of course lowering your strength because you were blood specced) and using both speccs i got 0/17/54 17 DPS ahead of 14/0/57 (all the other speccs were even lower)

DPS| 10361(+/- 693)
Total Damage| 3730,12m | in 100h
Threat Per Second| 6878
Generated in |23s
Template:| UH mit Frostsub 0-17-54
Priority: |Unholy

DPS| 10344(+/- 691)
Total Damage| 3723,74m | in 100h
Threat Per Second| 5285
Generated in |23s
Template:| Unholy 14-00-57
Priority: |Unholy

So it comes down to your choice (like everyone else told here). Having an AGI weapon doesn't matter at all, just consider it a "non procc weapon".

Shigo · 03/27/10, 8:31 PM

Originally Posted by prime311

I think it's worth noting in the first post that Unholy is better DPS then Blood in gear sets that might not have multiple BiS pieces and all 264+ yet. It is a reason why to spec Unholy, even if its likely to fall behind as it becomes more realistic to get Exp and ArP capped. While I'm not sure how it fairs at this gear level compared to Frost, that will be highly dependent on what weapons you have gotten anyway. I would imagine any progression guild DK will have a viable 264+ 2h, but they may not have 1h's to even support a Frost spec yet.

Is blood only better is you are BiS? Because I still out dps some blood DKs who have the same gear plus better trinkets than me and I am unholy. And how viable is Unholy DW with the new frost spec if you have 2 264 weapons?

With the new the frost sub spec I have been gaining runic power alot faster than before is seems to me? And if so wouldn't throwing an extra DC in front of BS be better?