Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 205

filthy · 03/27/10, 8:51 PM

Detoxxz · 03/27/10, 9:14 PM

With the new Unholy-Sub-Frost Reapingless spec has Normal Death's Choice/Verdict passed Heroic Whispering Fanged Skull with Strength increasing in EP value? I recently acquired Heroic Whispering Fanged Skull replacing my Normal Death's Choice to go along with Deathbringer's Will. I ran the Optimizer on Zerack's DK Optimize its says to use Heroic Whispering Fanged Skull and Deathbringer's Will. Now when I ran it through Kahorie's I received the following results:

Using Death's Choice Normal and Deathbringers Will

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	876553423	21.4	144160	8217.6	52103	34.9	4678.5	54565	36.5	9348.8	5320	3.6	37492	25.1	3272
Ghoul	493042290	12	404511	1218.9	351941	87	1086	52570	13	2108.5
DeathCoil	414109354	10.1	58172	7118.7	36310	62.4	5177.6	21862	37.6	10342.6
ScourgeStrike	394463955	9.6	52466	7518.5	30027	55.2	4833.4	22439	41.2	11111.6	1978	3.6
BloodStrike	297956169	7.3	69547	4284.2	44163	61.2	3140.2	25384	35.2	6274.7	2571	3.6
FrostFever	269347887	6.6	107767	2499.4	107767	100										98.5
BloodPlague	226170764	5.5	108257	2089.2	108257	100										98.5
ScourgeStrikeMagical	218078540	5.3	52466	4156.6	30027	57.2	2672	22439	42.8	6143.1
Gargoyle	205815144	5	37082	5550.3	32215	86.9	4905	4867	13.1	9821.6
Necrosis	170298652	4.2	144160	1181.3	144160	100
WanderingPlague	133983441	3.3	58667	2283.8	58667	100
BloodCakedBlade	133065242	3.2	41721	3189.4	41721	96.3	3189.4				1592	3.7
PlagueStrike	93267369	2.3	17898	5211	10347	55.8	3369.1	7551	40.7	7735.1	637	3.4
IcyTouch	80690510	2	17737	4549.3	11091	62.5	3312.4	6646	37.5	6613.5
AotD	46623928	1.1	249427	186.9	216382	86.8	185.6	33045	13.2	195.8
UnholyBlight	41415615	1	58172	712	58172	100
DPS	11375(+/- 1069)
Total Damage	4094.88m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	7506
Generated in	25s
Template:	Unholy(Sub Frost)00-17-54
Rotation:	Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	HangedMan
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

Using Heroic Whispering Fanged Skull and Deathbringer's Will

Ability	Damage done				hits			Crits			Misses		Glances		Uptime
	Total	%	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	%	Avg	#	Avg	#	%	Avg	%
MainHand	884483678	21.6	144160	8291.9	47237	31.6	4602	59431	39.8	9194.8	5320	3.6	37492	25.1	3217.9
Ghoul	474533271	11.6	404511	1173.1	351941	87	1045.2	52570	13	2029.6
DeathCoil	415858184	10.2	58172	7148.8	34440	59.2	5080.3	23732	40.8	10150.6
ScourgeStrike	399669303	9.8	52466	7617.7	28357	52.1	4769.9	24109	44.3	10967.2	1978	3.6
BloodStrike	300962085	7.4	69547	4327.5	41916	58.1	3098.3	27631	38.3	6192.1	2571	3.6
FrostFever	263467512	6.4	107767	2444.8	107767	100										98.5
BloodPlague	221257114	5.4	108257	2043.8	108257	100										98.5
ScourgeStrikeMagical	220975105	5.4	52466	4211.8	28357	54	2637.1	24109	46	6063.9
Gargoyle	202227840	4.9	37082	5453.5	32215	86.9	4819.2	4867	13.1	9651.9
Necrosis	171830417	4.2	144160	1191.9	144160	100
WanderingPlague	139553696	3.4	62476	2233.7	62476	100
BloodCakedBlade	130866506	3.2	41721	3136.7	41721	96.3	3136.7				1592	3.7
PlagueStrike	94467149	2.3	17898	5278.1	9752	52.6	3319.3	8146	43.9	7623	637	3.4
IcyTouch	81004836	2	17737	4567	10518	59.3	3249.2	7219	40.7	6487.1
AotD	44016896	1.1	249427	176.5	216382	86.8	175.2	33045	13.2	184.6
UnholyBlight	41591653	1	58172	715	58172	100
DPS	11352(+/- 1038)
Total Damage	4086.77m	in 100h
Threat Per Second	7543
Generated in	25s
Template:	Unholy(Sub Frost)00-17-54
Rotation:	Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence:	Blood
Sigil:	HangedMan
RuneEnchant:	FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation:	True

As you can see the Normal version Death's Choice/Verdict Comes out ahead of the Heroic Whispering Fanged Skull in my current gear. The Difference between the Normal Death's Choice/Verdict and Heroic Whispering Fanged Skull is a 23 DPS difference in favor of Normal Death's Choice/Verdict.

These are the EP Values:

EP AttackPower	1 (0.74 DPS/per AP)
EP Strength	3.14
EP Agility	1.24
EP CritRating	1.84
EP HasteEstimated	1.73
EP HasteRating1	2.16
EP ArmorPenetrationRating	2.46
EP ExpertiseRating	1.97
Personal Expertise value	2.41
BeforeMeleeHitCap<8%	4.27
EP SpellHitRating	0.22
EP WeaponDPS	7.3
EP WeaponSpeed	283.78
EP 2T9	159.72
EP 4T9	426.39
EP 2T10	230.56
EP 4T10	400

goldensun · 03/28/10, 1:22 AM

I'v got 5 extra points to spend since i raid with 2 other UH dk's. i'v chosen to go sub frost pick reaping back up and 2 points in subversion. Are there any cookie cutter specs for us none ep dk's? should i drop my SE and use brytroll and drop reaping and pick up morbidity? i'm sitting at 5383 ap 31 crit 50% arp unbuffed

Nekali · 03/28/10, 6:13 AM

CoI still overwrites the other snares on the valks though, which can make the use somewhat hazardous if there is no constant reapplication of another snare (i.e. Crippling/Desecration)...

rh8452 · 03/28/10, 11:50 AM

Desecration is a terrible snare for valks as stated previously. We have rogues do it and paladins with JoJ/SoJ. The only fight where desecration has been of any value has been saurfang hard mode, but having a single rogue take the DPS loss and go crippling poison/FoK has proven to be much more reliable than messing around with desecration / DKs having to cast CoI. Maybe in some 10-man scenarios where raid comp is more limited, desecration might be viable, but it's no good for 25.

One thing about sub frost is that due to the rotation going back to the old 3.2 one, you become GCD capped once again and more haste allows more death coils to be squeezed in. There are so many opportunities for RP generation in ICC now that in my personal opinion, haste is significantly more valuable than stat weights indicate. You aren't getting the bonus RP from casting IT that you used to with the glyph, but revitalize and rapture + AMS make it very frequent that you overcap RP anyways. Depending on your raid's healing comp and the fight, an argument can definitely be made for the value of haste to rise in 25-mans.

I also do cast DC over BS if I'm maxed on RP and out of GCDs, doing SS BS SS DC DC DC instead of SS BS SS BS DC DC at the end of a rotation. A DC crit for ~9k vs BS crit for ~5.5k is definitely worth it. So mid-fight if you know a large amount of magic damage is incoming (or you have a 5-stack of the sindragosa debuff) which will cause you to become RP-capped with AMS, you can often get 4 DCs in the second half of the rotation by forgoing 2xBS like so: SS (AMS) DC DC SS DC DC.

• frmorrison · 03/28/10, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by rh8452

Desecration is a terrible snare for valks as stated previously. We have rogues do it and paladins with JoJ/SoJ.

Judgement of Justice does not affects mobs, it just removes extra speed affects on players, such as the run speed enchant and the increased mounting speed. Seal of Justice can stun Valks, but it goes on DR fast (2 seconds then 1 second then immune). While it is on its own DR, Paladins do the most AoE damage in 20 seconds than any other class so shouldn't use Justice.

Rogues weapon swapping is a good option for 25, since they have the AoE slow.

Using Death Coil over 1x Blood Strike (1x BS to keep up the buff) seems like the best option if you have max RP.

kc102 · 03/28/10, 10:51 PM

Is there a gear level where DC becomes better then BS? I simmed and set DC to be used over BS, and lost DPS. And I'm in mid-tier ICC gear.

Detoxxz · 03/28/10, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by kc102

Is there a gear level where DC becomes better then BS? I simmed and set DC to be used over BS, and lost DPS. And I'm in mid-tier ICC gear.

You can sub out one BS for a DC as long as Desolation is up depending on you much RP you have. So the priority system would look something like this. Diseases > Desolation > Scourge Strike > Death Coil > Blood Strike > HoW

kc102 · 03/29/10, 12:06 AM

Doesn't seem to have a DPS affect now, since Desolation is up there. (Whether I put DC or BS in front of each other.)

If I go subspec Blood w/ Reaping, having DC above BS is a dps loss, and going subspec Blood w/ Reaping is a 5 dps increase. And I think that gap will increase if I pick up a non-proc weapon.

Helheimr · 03/29/10, 1:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ischemic

Two pages back it was said that DKs can top dps on Sindragosa. Can anyone help me know how. I seem to spend too much time running around dpsing tombs.

You can sit through Blistering Colds as well with AMS (including 25 Heroic), just make sure to RP Dump prior to the start of the cast to minimize the chance of resetting/building a stack of Chilled to the Bone. Can kill yourself easily if you have ~5+ stack of Chilled when AMSing Blistering Cold.

Savetheday · 03/29/10, 2:09 AM

Originally Posted by Detoxxz

You can sub out one BS for a DC as long as Desolation is up depending on you much RP you have. So the priority system would look something like this. Diseases > Desolation > Scourge Strike > Death Coil > Blood Strike > HoW

Nit-picking but it should be SS > DC if rp capped > BS > DC > How

I guess ideally you might DC even if not rp capped if UF runes are coming up, but that kind of situational at best.

Originally Posted by Helheimr

You can sit through Blistering Colds as well with AMS (including 25 Heroic), just make sure to RP Dump prior to the start of the cast to minimize the chance of resetting/building a stack of Chilled to the Bone. Can kill yourself easily if you have ~5+ stack of Chilled when AMSing Blistering Cold.

Be very careful if you plan on doing this, you will almost certainly die with stacks of mystic buffet. I ran out for all blisterings even during the early phases in my parses

Gumibear · 03/29/10, 2:30 AM

Originally Posted by Helheimr

You can sit through Blistering Colds as well with AMS (including 25 Heroic), just make sure to RP Dump prior to the start of the cast to minimize the chance of resetting/building a stack of Chilled to the Bone. Can kill yourself easily if you have ~5+ stack of Chilled when AMSing Blistering Cold.

If you have to stop your melee attack anyway, try using AMS on your Chilled to the Bone while running from Blistering Cold. You can spam Death Coils as you move.

Valtiel · 03/29/10, 5:53 AM

Originally Posted by Shigo

Is blood only better is you are BiS? Because I still out dps some blood DKs who have the same gear plus better trinkets than me and I am unholy. And how viable is Unholy DW with the new frost spec if you have 2 264 weapons?

With the new the frost sub spec I have been gaining runic power alot faster than before is seems to me? And if so wouldn't throwing an extra DC in front of BS be better?

Blood sims better at BiS gear and with the redicolous assumption that you're over 75% health all the time. If you use WoL you will see that at present UH still performs better than Blood. It's true that we will only see a fair comparison once a blood dk finishes his Shadowmourne, but on the other hand, in many ways Shadowmourne will make UH's aoe advantage even bigger (a big passive strength increase will further inflate the ap scaling on diseases and DnD, without counting the shadowdmg increase on Black Ice).

I'm not entirely sure Blizz can be too happy about their dps balancing at the moment, since their "5% tax theory" isn't working too well (rogues and hunters are closer to 10 to 15% on several fights for example) but I doubt they will touch speccs more with Cata on the door.

coca · 03/29/10, 8:13 AM

Originally Posted by Savetheday

Nit-picking but it should be SS > DC if rp capped > BS > DC > How

I guess ideally you might DC even if not rp capped if UF runes are coming up, but that kind of situational at best.

Be very careful if you plan on doing this, you will almost certainly die with stacks of mystic buffet. I ran out for all blisterings even during the early phases in my parses

Since I'm GCD capped with the reapingless build sub spec into frost, I will always DC over BS. BS hit on average for 2.9k while DC hit for 4.8k. Critting for 5.8 and 10.1k. This was base on my WoL. You can argue that 2 BS will do more dmg than 1 DC however alot of the times we won't have the luxury of doing 2BS before our FU runes comes off CD. I'll always prioritize PS/IT (if debuffs aren't up on the target)->SS->BS (if desolation buff isn't up) otherwise DC-> BS (if desolation is up already). Also if you're ever in the situation where you have no runes or RP to cast you can always use BT and do another BS and that should be enough time for your other stuff to pop up.

Also there will always be magic dmg on every single fight except for saurfang so you will always have extra DC and in that case I will forgo the two Blood Runes and just use DC. I think this is different than the priority system that the OP have on page 1.

prime311 · 03/29/10, 9:35 AM

It's not that difficult to maintain 75% health on the vast majority of encounters, especially when you're healing yourself with Death Strike. The reason for the gap on WoL is also because there are virtually no Blood DK's that are ArP capped yet. Although out of the 4 most difficult encounters(Sind, PP, LDW, LK), 3 of them favor Unholy just due to mechanics. Only PP favors Blood. I'm torn on LK though, since Blood isn't inflating their numbers with Drudge Ghouls and Vile Spirits and has higher potential for damage to Raging Spirits, LK, and Valks.

As for DC versus BS, you can do this once every other rune set, since anymore then that will lower the uptime of our 4P10 bonus.