Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 215

Owt · 04/16/10, 4:54 AM

Originally Posted by Consider

Uh, no Owt, you were not! Those getting values >3.0 for haste are doing something wrong, regardless of what spec or gear set you're using. I can't recreate such numbers, no matter how much tweaking I do, and besides, it doesn't logically fit. That, and haste is probably the easiest stat to figure out the EP value of (if you ignore the GCD reduction aspect of it, which one can as a DK without getting results that are too off the mark), so it's simple enough to see wrong if you work out the numbers by hand.

Oh, I thought the ones I had sent you ( atleast, the 2nd one, I knwo the first was WAY off ) had it at around 2.7-ish. Again, my mistake

On another side note, I'm not sure ( again ) if I'm doing something wrong, but after someone talking about Unholy Presence on the mmo boards, I decided to sim some Unholy Presence specs... and actually came out ~150-200 DPS ahead of the regular spec by moving 2 points from Necrosis into Imp. Unholy Presence, and DPSing in Unholy Presence.

I went and tried it with my current gear, as well as trying it in my current gear and replace my Shadow's Edge with Shadowmourne. I ran several different things ( Blood Presence 5/5 Necrosis 0/2 Imp Unholy Presence, Unholy Presence same spec, Blood Presence 3/5 Necrosis 2/2 Imp. UhP, and Unholy Presence w/ 3/5 Necro 2/2 Imp. UhP ) and every time the Unholy Presence w/ 2/2 Imp Unholy Presence came out on top. Is it possible with the haste changes that the attack speed makes UhP better? Or did I more likely break something... yet again D:

Xzanecho · 04/16/10, 5:06 AM

Originally Posted by artad

Noob first post here... so pls be forgiving with me

After the increased importance of haste, how does it apply to trinket priority list?
Is it worthy to test [Herkuml War Token]?

thx

I'm curious about this too as I have > 200 frost badges and nothing to spend them on and I'm still using non-heroic fanged skull.

Melchior · 04/16/10, 5:07 AM

Originally Posted by Owt

On another side note, I'm not sure ( again ) if I'm doing something wrong, but after someone talking about Unholy Presence on the mmo boards, I decided to sim some Unholy Presence specs... and actually came out ~150-200 DPS ahead of the regular spec by moving 2 points from Necrosis into Imp. Unholy Presence, and DPSing in Unholy Presence

I sim about ~300 DPS lower when using 2/2 Imp. UP in Unholy Presence. What RP/min value are you using when simming?

Owt · 04/16/10, 5:11 AM

I wasn't editing RP/min at all, so just 0. I just ran the sims again and they showed the same results ( Although, it was a much, much smaller difference of only 20 DPS this time. I can post the sim printouts if you wanna take a look and see what I may have messed up if you'd like.

I figured I'm doing something wrong ( I have this bad habit of managing to some how mess up stuff without trying :< ) but thought it was worth mentioning JUST incase I had actually not done it wrong

gia · 04/16/10, 5:25 AM

Originally Posted by Consider

Edit As far as the BiS lists go, little changes. Both factions use Ashen Band and Winding Sheet. Alliance uses Lana'thel's Chain, Horde uses Anh'Kahar. That's all there is to it.

As an Orc with Shadowmourne, [Lana'thel's Chain of Flagellation] with Precision on gloves and a few Etched Ametrines simulates very slightly ahead of [Ahn'kahar Onyx Neckguard] and has the added benefit of higher expertise to reduce RNG. [Skeleton Lord's Circle] is also a decent option to get more expertise but comes at a 50ish dps loss over [Might of Blight].

Consider · 04/16/10, 6:15 AM

I've tossed up the new stat weights, adjusted the BiS lists, and have adjusted the trinket list. Herkuml just barely passes normal DC/DV, but I would personally advise to continue using the latter due to the fact that the miniscule gap by which DC/DV loses is easily made up by the gain on an additional target and the nonfactor of maintaining stacks.

I have temporarily scrapped the entire gemming section until I can completely redo it, due to the heavy changes which require more than just editting of numbers. Fun, if irrelevant, fact; removing the gemming section makes the page load after an edit about twice as fast (12 seconds as compared to 25). Almost enough to make me want to forget it permanently.

Gia, you're correct. I was simply talking BiS without Shadowmourne. I should have been more specific - my apologies.

As far as (I)UP goes, I am still having it come off as a clear and heavy dps loss - one to the tune of several hundred. It's likely user error, no offence.

Masterbetatesta · 04/16/10, 11:40 AM

Thanks for your continued dedication to this thread. I'm anxiously awaiting for your gemming update. DKO is telling me to change all my yellows to 7x Fierce Ametrines instead of 6x Inscribed and 1x Etched (bringing me down to 255 hit). I'm hoping it's user error.

Burz · 04/16/10, 12:34 PM

Considering the cancellation of the Shadowmourne proc. How exactly does this work? And why is it beneficial to cancel? When exactly do you cancel it?

Im sure there are many of us who are curious about this mechanic specifically as more and more Shadowmournes become active.

Etio · 04/16/10, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by Burz

Considering the cancellation of the Shadowmourne proc. How exactly does this work? And why is it beneficial to cancel? When exactly do you cancel it?

Im sure there are many of us who are curious about this mechanic specifically as more and more Shadowmournes become active.

Proc cancelling works like this:
Gain 10 fragments -> Get Chaos Bane shadow damage -> Cancel 270 Strength buff.

This is so you can continue to gain fragments as you cant while the 270 str buff is active.

Amroo · 04/16/10, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by Etio

A major change I have noticed is that the new haste favored stat weights will almost certainly make Chaotic Skyflare Diamond our best meta for nearly any gear set. This is due to the fact that we have a yellow gem that ranks so closely to our best stat (Strength). A yellow socket now is almost always taken, and wont be considered a liability when taking a blue socket for the socket bonus.

I don't see how the haste change changes anything regarding meta gems. The choice of the meta gem exclusively depends on the weights of crit rating vs. agility and the respective socket bonus. Haste doesn't factor in at all except if a socket bonus is haste.
With any meta you have one yellow gem (Nightmare Tear) and Chaotic requires an additional blue gem, not yellow.

Edit: Ah, Diello clarifies that it's with respect to the sets with RYB-Legs and a +8 Strength bonus.

Diello · 04/16/10, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Amroo

I don't see how the haste change changes anything regarding meta gems. The choice of the meta gem exclusively depends on the weights of crit rating vs. agility and the respective socket bonus. Haste doesn't factor in at all except if a socket bonus is haste.
With any meta you have one yellow gem (Nightmare Tear) and Chaotic requires an additional blue gem, not yellow.

In our BIS set there are only two blue sockets, one in [Sanctified Scourgelord Battleplate] and one in [Scourge Reaver's Legplates]. The value of the yellow slot changes the difference in value between using three red gems in the pants vs one red/orange/purple gem. If that difference (counting the socket bonus) is less than the difference in value between using [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] and [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] then that would affect our metagem choice.

Using Frost SM stat weights the two scenarios we get are:

Orange + Purple + Socket + Chaotic = 161.09
2x Red + Relentless = 154.01

Amroo · 04/16/10, 3:28 PM

Yes, that makes sense. Although the difference (with the same weights) is only 2 AP if you switch the Tear from Chest to Legs (lets you gain 2 Str). But still, the point is valid for all RYB-Legs with a +8 Str socket bonus.

Etio · 04/16/10, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Amroo

Yes, that makes sense. Although the difference (with the same weights) is only 2 AP if you switch the Tear from Chest to Legs (lets you gain 2 Str). But still, the point is valid for all RYB-Legs with a +8 Str socket bonus.

I said for nearly any gear set because I am assuming that people have the tier chest followed with one of the following leggings:

It's not only for RYB with a +8 str bonus (such as [Scourge Reaver's Legplates] and [Legplates of Painful Death]). But also for any other viable leggings (such as [Sanctified Scourgelord Legplates] or [Legplates of Aetheric Strife]).

Pwnzi · 04/16/10, 4:13 PM

Based on these new stat weights, I'm assuming it'd be wise to replace normal Whispering Fanged Skull with Herkumi War Token?

resky · 04/16/10, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Pwnzi

Based on these new stat weights, I'm assuming it'd be wise to replace normal Whispering Fanged Skull with Herkumi War Token?

For fights where there's no danger of stacks falling off it's always been the case :<