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Old 05/16/10, 10:39 PM   #3346
Ragrek
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Draenor (EU)
In trying to assess my live performance with other Death Knights, I have tried to work out which hard mode encounter makes the most sense fight to compare single target damage. I'm split between Festergut and Rotface. It seems more likely that a Death Knight would have to run away from the boss at Rotface due to the chance of having to move from an explosion or being infected being high. Whereas with Festergut, the likelihood of someone having to run out and still featuring highly in the rankings doesn't strike me as very probable.

So far I have been comparing Disease, Desolation and Bone Shield uptime and the number of casts of Plague Strike and Icy Touch. Does comparing the percentage sources of damage to the simulated damage breakdown provide any useful information?

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Old 05/17/10, 10:24 AM   #3347
Jhaze
Banned
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Hakkar (EU)
Originally Posted by Ragrek View Post
Does comparing the percentage sources of damage to the simulated damage breakdown provide any useful information?
Imo,not really.
Comparing your logs even from a static boss (patchwerk like) with a sim,is not that usefull.
You have always to consider that doing a simulation of 1200 x 5 minute fights and comparing it to a single 5 minute log is too much rng dependant.
Instead of just comparing the percentage sources of damage,i'll suggest you to compare the percentage of abilities casted.
Then,maybe,try to do some maths.

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Old 05/17/10, 4:12 PM   #3348
Harmann
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Azjol-Nerub
Off topic slightly from single target DPSing, but has anyone here ever attempted an Unholy DK AoE stress test using the Valkyr in ICC just for fun to see what kind of DPS you can actually output?

This is the plan I've got with some guildies:

1 x Prot Paladin tank
1 x Geared Unholy DK
N x Holy Paladin healers

The basic idea is that ANY Paladins who are chosen by the Valks to be mirrored simply turn into Flash of Light spamming drones who deal next to no damage and simply stand around healing each other.

We've had pulls where not many people were at the teleporter yet and ready to clear and end up with 15-20 Valk spawns until the rest of the raid gets upstairs...on my Fire Mage, AE hits 40k+ easily with Living Bomb spam, but at that point it's completely AE capped...unlike Unholy AE ever gets.

With a Prot Paladin, Unholy DK and a little army of Pally healers (not so much to heal as much as simply ensure Paladins are the main ones getting picked to be cloned by the Valkyr) I'd bet you could easily get 60+ adds to spawn and since Unholy AoE is exponentially scaling...things get VERY out of control at those numbers. Napkin math I've done suggests numbers upwards of 1-2 million DPS.

Again, it doesn't count for anything of course...but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a hell of a lot of fun to try.

Every 3 seconds, 2 DoTs hit each of the 60 mobs for ~2k. Each of those has a ~50% chance to proc Wandering Plague which would deal ~120k when 60 mobs are involved. So: (4k DoT damage every 3 seconds x 60 mobs) + (75% chance per mob x 60 of dealing 120k every 3 seconds) = 240,000 + 5,400,000 per 3 seconds = 1.88 million DPS. If you can get 100 adds to spawn, you're looking at ~5.1 million DPS. 200 adds would be ~20 million. Etc.

This is without Blood Boil or Death and Decay (not sure if either of those are AE capped or if Wandering Plague is).

Edit: Now seeing some information on another site about a hidden ICD on Wandering Plague which would make this experiment far less than fun.

Last edited by Harmann : 05/17/10 at 5:52 PM.

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Old 05/18/10, 9:32 AM   #3349
rh8452
Piston Honda
 
rh8452's Avatar
 
Worgen Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
I've peaked on valk adds (40 cat druid/pally adds) and sindragosa whelps around 120k, never seen higher. That's with DnD having been cast and blood boil mixed in as well. There is an AE cap of sorts but I'm not certain precisely where it is, I'm thinking it may actually be a cap on the number of targets you can have diseases on at once, as often I'll pestilence with 30-40 adds in range, then tab-target and find adds without diseases on them mixed in.

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Old 05/18/10, 1:30 PM   #3350
Treeni
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Hakkar
isn't hit still a factor when applying pestilence?
so in theory if you pestilenced 100 adds, 3% would miss because a misery effect couldn't possibly be on all of the adds...
or are we assuming that pestilence is affected by hit but only off of the main target?

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Old 05/18/10, 1:37 PM   #3351
Harmann
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Azjol-Nerub
Originally Posted by Treeni View Post
isn't hit still a factor when applying pestilence?
so in theory if you pestilenced 100 adds, 3% would miss because a misery effect couldn't possibly be on all of the adds...
or are we assuming that pestilence is affected by hit but only off of the main target?
Can't be that, you're easily hit capped against anything +1 or +2 levels.

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Old 05/19/10, 11:23 AM   #3352
ObsidiusDK
Glass Joe
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by rh8452 View Post
I've peaked on valk adds (40 cat druid/pally adds) and sindragosa whelps around 120k, never seen higher. That's with DnD having been cast and blood boil mixed in as well. There is an AE cap of sorts but I'm not certain precisely where it is, I'm thinking it may actually be a cap on the number of targets you can have diseases on at once, as often I'll pestilence with 30-40 adds in range, then tab-target and find adds without diseases on them mixed in.
I've had the same situation happen with me in places like Sindragosa's whelps and Onyxia's whelps and even during the initial trash pull on Plague Wing at times (depending whether or not we pull geists). Still have to figure out just how many adds at one time you can have diseases up on, but at the same time, I don't see it ever affecting any of the actual boss encounters. Not for the moment, anyway.

I've also been testing out the Expertise cap and just how low you can go under the cap before it becomes too much of a waste. I've really only been able to swap out a piece of expertise gear and been able to go as high as 21. Any other swap outs put me lower than that and I'm constantly missing at least 1 attack, be it Plague Strike, SS, etc. per rotation and that just seems like a waste, IMO. Just curious as to what an ideal number would be to gear for when going under Expertise cap.

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Old 05/19/10, 11:29 AM   #3353
Fyrestryke
Von Kaiser
 
Fyrestryke's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
<SG>
Bleeding Hollow
That's more a "feel" thing than anything. There's no real concrete answer to that question. I myself am comfortable anywhere 18+. I've found that below that I run into the odd back to back dodge and that is where you will actually feel the effects of missing expertise. You can adjust to a single dodge most of the time with little to no effect in your DPS, but 2 in a row and your rotation is pretty much destroyed for that rune set, and potentially beyond if the timing is really bad.

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Old 05/20/10, 1:51 AM   #3354
Harmann
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Azjol-Nerub
Back on the subject of that Unholy DK AoE stress test, tried it out tonight and here were my findings:

1) Wandering Plague is AoE capped to 10 targets.
2) Wandering Plague indeed has a 1 sec internal cooldown. ~6000 ticks of Blood Plague, ~6000 ticks of Frost Fever, ~6000 WP procs.
3) Pestilence has no cap.

Our DK capped out at around 42,000 DPS.

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Old 05/20/10, 9:04 AM   #3355
Blutsturm
Glass Joe
 
Blutsturm's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Harmann View Post
2) Wandering Plague indeed has a 1 sec internal cooldown.
Impressive testing, however do you know of any other sources that also point out a hidden 1 second icd? I haven't been able to dig this up anywhere else.

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Old 05/20/10, 10:15 AM   #3356
Soshika
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Karazhan (EU)
Originally Posted by Blutsturm View Post
however do you know of any other sources that also point out a hidden 1 second icd?
It's fairly simple to prove that there is a one second cooldown with worldoflogs. Just open up the log browser, add a query for wandering plague and look at the times.

Last edited by Soshika : 05/20/10 at 10:21 AM.

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Old 05/20/10, 11:18 AM   #3357
Lightbane
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by Harmann View Post
Back on the subject of that Unholy DK AoE stress test, tried it out tonight and here were my findings:

1) Wandering Plague is AoE capped to 10 targets.
2) Wandering Plague indeed has a 1 sec internal cooldown. ~6000 ticks of Blood Plague, ~6000 ticks of Frost Fever, ~6000 WP procs.
3) Pestilence has no cap.

Our DK capped out at around 42,000 DPS.
Capped out at 42k? Does this mean that he was unable to do more than that? If so that's not a statistic cap for DKs because I've been hitting ~54k at the Sindragosa whelps.

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Old 05/20/10, 11:52 AM   #3358
Roop
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Lightbane View Post
Capped out at 42k? Does this mean that he was unable to do more than that? If so that's not a statistic cap for DKs because I've been hitting ~54k at the Sindragosa whelps.
He said "Our DK topped out at 42k" not that the cap is 42k. It may be possible to test that there is a cap in terms of this sort DPS, but I dont think we are anywhere near it in current encounters available or volumes of mobs at a decent amount of health to sustain a test to get there. There, meaning to see if there is a limit for AoE/DPS we can generate.

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Old 05/20/10, 1:48 PM   #3359
Harmann
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Azjol-Nerub
Our test was only 2 Holy Paladins, 1 Prot Paladin and our DK. So due to this, the number of adds never really got INSANE and stopped I'd have to guess around 20-30 adds. Not enough to log some absurd DPS numbers, but enough to get an idea of the DK mechanics easily.

The ICD is pretty apparent looking at the logs, like I say, almost identical numbers for Blood Plague, Frost Fever and Wandering Plague hits. This indicates that every 3 seconds, each disease ticks on every target and ONE Wandering Plague procs on every target. The ICD might be 3 seconds and not 1, there's not a real easy way to tell and I'm not sure if he was using Glyph of Disease (though I assume not). Without GoD, your combat should look something like this:

0.0s: Blood Plague applied to target 1
1.5s: Frost Fever applied to target 1
3.0s: Pestilence both to all targets, Blood Plague ticks for the first time on target 1.
4.5s: Frost Fever ticks for the first time on target 1.
6.0s: ALL Diseases tick simultaneously on all adds for the first time. Blood Plague ticks for the second time on target 1.

So basically everything is synced up other than Frost Fever on your first target. If the ICD was 1 second, then I should have seen a decent handful of additional Wandering procs due to that one single de-synced Frost Fever. However, like I said, the number of Disease ticks and Wandering Procs were nearly identical.

When I mentioned capping out, that was simply OUR DK capping out in that very specific circumstance with that exact number of adds. Diseases and Pestilence have no cap so the sky is the limit on those, Wandering Plague and DnD seem to be AE capped which means that once your targets pass the 10 mark, you're not doing any more damage with those abilities, it's just spreading out over more targets.

Paladin Severed Essences by the way do indeed just mainly sit there healing, but they also have an aura which restores 3% of all targets' HP every tick...so basically once you get 20+ Paladin adds going, you'll never out DPS them because they're passively healing something like 90,000 HPS. Anyway, bring more Paladins and you can EASILY test this much further. The adds cap out seemingly based on how many people are fighting them, so with only 4 people there, I don't think we really saw more than 20. If you had 20 Holy Paladins, 4 Prot Paladins and 1 DK...then we'd be talking some serious business.

This actually DOES all have some interesting implications that need further testing. If the Wandering Plague ICD is indeed 1 second, and that slightly de-synced Frost Fever has a chance to proc WP separately, then it means Glyph of Disease is almost a guaranteed LOSS of DPS on heavy AoE fights.

Last edited by Harmann : 05/20/10 at 2:00 PM.

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Old 05/20/10, 6:50 PM   #3360
Sh4d0wfury
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Ursin
Wandering plague has an ICD since beta. If I remember correctly, it's written in one of blizz beta patch notes. It's this way because of the exponential increase in damage one would have if all diseases in all targets had a chance to "explode" at the same time. Now I think the cap is unheard of.

The ICD should be nothing to worry about, though. You can't really have your diseases unsynced, due to how pestilence works, and most of UH dks don't use GoD, so that there will always be one disease unsynced.

Last edited by Sh4d0wfury : 05/20/10 at 6:59 PM.

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