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Old 05/30/10, 12:05 PM   #3376
Evolord
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Ashylarry View Post
This is the case for normal version Sindragosa, but definitely not the heroic version. Even with AMS and bone shield you still drop down to about 20% on heroic version as was stated earlier.
I have been popping AMS just 1-2 seconds before the boss finish casting Blistering Cold in heroic 25 for the past few weeks and it works perfectly fine for me. I have never ever dropped below 20% or even 70% actually. There are a few reasons as to why you may drop so low with AMS. It could be that you are too slow in popping your AMS(server lag), or you are too early in popping it(there are random ticks that can easily consume the damage absorbed) and lastly your AMS is being consumed by Chilled to the Bones instead of Blistering Cold.

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Old 05/30/10, 1:26 PM   #3377
Helheimr
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Arthas
Originally Posted by Ashylarry View Post
This is the case for normal version Sindragosa, but definitely not the heroic version. Even with AMS and bone shield you still drop down to about 20% on heroic version as was stated earlier.
I've been doing the aforementioned on Heroic 25 Sindragosa since the very first day we started learning her (@ 0% buff). If you're dropping to 20%, you're timing your AMS badly and taking Frost Aura/Chilled to the Bone ticks prior to Blistering Cold. I haven't been using any Frost Resist gear at all since the first few weeks as well.

From WoL: Blistering Cold Hits = 3 Damage/Hit = 13114.0 Total Taken = 39342 Absorbed = 98624

One of those Blistering Colds is sub 35% as well with 2 stacks of Mystic Buffet, so actual unmodified damage taken is less per hit. When there was no raid ICC instance buff (so no increased health pool buffing absorption amount of AMS), average damage taken from a Blistering Cold was around 15000.

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Old 05/30/10, 7:38 PM   #3378
NeuroMedivh
Von Kaiser
 
NeuroMedivh's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Greymane
Originally Posted by Dmntd-Sc View Post
Could someone explain how 20hit to gloves is better then 15str?
if u need the hit isn't it better to just do str/hit?
Assuming you are sub-frost, if you gain +hit from gems, you are giving up 20 haste to gain 15 str. Using i264 values, 15 str is worth (15x3.11) 46.65 AP, whereas 20 haste is worth (20x2.75) 55 AP.

Thus, if you need the hit, Precision is better than gemming.

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Old 05/31/10, 3:16 AM   #3379
Mild Confusion
Piston Honda
 
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Worgen Death Knight
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by NeuroMedivh View Post
Assuming you are sub-frost, if you gain +hit from gems, you are giving up 20 haste to gain 15 str. Using i264 values, 15 str is worth (15x3.11) 46.65 AP, whereas 20 haste is worth (20x2.75) 55 AP.

Thus, if you need the hit, Precision is better than gemming.
Correct, but don't forget that if the person is close to the hit cap that they need to calculate the value of hit past what they need. If they are only .30% or less below, it would be better to gem for 10 str/10 hit in that situation (it's come up for me in the past).

It's only a small amount, but that's what we are here for

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Old 06/03/10, 5:10 AM   #3380
Riz
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
So speaking of Sindragosa I'm running into what I consider a problem with overcapping runic power. For our first heroic twenty five kill we ran with, I believe, four resto druids all with revitalize. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis there is the log to how much I actually gained. Now my question is this; is there anyway to dump all runic power without completely foregoing a blood strike or letting a disease fall off at the last second?

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Old 06/03/10, 6:01 AM   #3381
Nyth_
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Riz View Post
So speaking of Sindragosa I'm running into what I consider a problem with overcapping runic power. For our first heroic twenty five kill we ran with, I believe, four resto druids all with revitalize. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis there is the log to how much I actually gained. Now my question is this; is there anyway to dump all runic power without completely foregoing a blood strike or letting a disease fall off at the last second?
Well. Seeing as your Death coils do about double the damage of a blood strike. I don't see why you couldn't just forfeit some blood strikes.

You still have to keep desolation up of course, so 1 blood strike every 20 seconds is needed, but other than that it's not needed.
You don't use reaping, so other than straight up damage it doesn't do anything.

If this is a frequent thing you could also consider dropping Dirge. If your focus currently is on Sindra HM25 and after that LK HM25, than you can expect to get a lot of RP from Wild Growth. A swap to say 2/3 morbidity or 2/2 Improved Unholy Presence (runspeed is rather good for sindra and LK), could work out in your favor.

Letting diseases fall off might not be the best solution but ignoring Blood Strike could net you 3 extra GCD, thats 120 extra RP to dump, that should be enough.

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Old 06/03/10, 9:27 AM   #3382
Mongo
Glass Joe
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Emerald Dream
Threat problems

Recently I have been noticing a few problems while DPSing with an Unholy sub-Frost.

On nearly all fights where movement isnt an issue, I get nearly threat capped by about the 1 minute mark. I usually only have 1 rogue TotTing me, and have two or three Paladins Hand of Salving me nearly on cooldown but I just catch right back up after the effect ends.

Am I doing something wrong, or is this normal? Or are my guild's tanks just bad?

I have never had this problem until ICC, but at the same time, I have almost always had Subversion in any spec I have used. I don't pre-pot, and usually wait about 10 seconds into the fight to start my rotation, but as soon as all of my procs go off it feels like I'm in Frost Presence(which I am not, I have been spamming a macro to shift into Blood Presence to make sure of it).

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 06/03/10, 9:39 AM   #3383
Diello
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Cenarion Circle
TotT can swing threat pretty quickly, but with a 10 second head start it should be easily manageable. Your tanks might just be bad. Can't say for sure without more info or a WoL link.

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Old 06/03/10, 2:13 PM   #3384
mebizzle
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Gorgonnash
If the rogue is ToTTing you on cooldown then thats the source of your threat problems... our DKS are always right below the tanks on almost every fight (and it isnt an issue with them, they are all very good tanks) and we don't get the benefit of having Tricks throw our way.

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Old 06/03/10, 2:26 PM   #3385
Mongo
Glass Joe
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Emerald Dream
Well, if the problem is the TotTs, what would be the best solution in your opinions?

I've thought of a few myself but neither seems like a good idea:

a) Drop points from Endless Winter into Subversion. Lose 4% Strength but gain the threat reduction.
b) Use Blood Subspec until the Tank grows a brain. Lower overall DPS but I dont need to worry about threat ever.
c) Tell the rogue to stop TotTing me, and use it on the tanks. Most optimal imo, but its a huge dps loss.

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Old 06/03/10, 2:48 PM   #3386
Illundai
Bald Bull
 
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Worgen Death Knight
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Make the rogue TotT someone else? :S

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Old 06/03/10, 3:19 PM   #3387
mebizzle
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Gorgonnash
Well, I remember back when the patch was on the PTR I was talking about a 1/17/53 build with the other DK in my guild taking the point from Dirge... justification there being that we have plenty of incoming RP from Druids.

I guess I should've asked this before, but what are your guild's tanks?

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Old 06/03/10, 3:44 PM   #3388
Mongo
Glass Joe
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Emerald Dream
Originally Posted by mebizzle View Post
Well, I remember back when the patch was on the PTR I was talking about a 1/17/53 build with the other DK in my guild taking the point from Dirge... justification there being that we have plenty of incoming RP from Druids.

I guess I should've asked this before, but what are your guild's tanks?
atm, we have 2 Paladins, a Druid, and a Warrior rotating depending on the day.

If the Warrior is there, his Vigilance on me usually keeps me under him enough to not cause issues, but with the other tanks threat issues almost always arise regardless of which one is tanking.

For the past 3-4 weeks this has been occuring, I'm thinking maybe the ICC buff is causing it, since maybe our threat output with the damage boost is outscaling tanks threat output, but if i recall, most of a tanks threat nowadays is from damage isn't it?

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Old 06/03/10, 3:59 PM   #3389
svedka
Glass Joe
 
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Troll Hunter
 
Sargeras
I've experienced no issues with threat from DKs (subfrost) or warrior in my raid (264/277 geared). Hunters should be MDing and rogues TotT the tank from the pull along with tanks popping offensive CD's. Either the tanks are not geared enough or they arent as good at generating threat. Id suggest the above to the raid and if you still have issues subspec blood.

Last edited by svedka : 06/03/10 at 4:12 PM.

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Old 06/05/10, 2:14 AM   #3390
MikeMo
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Laughing Skull
This has to either be a bad tank problem or you run with 0 hunters. Get your hunters to MD and then the rogue to TotT the tank at the start then switch to you.

Also, I find it odd you guys are having threat problems or find yourselves so high on threat meters. According to WoL I put out pretty good DPS which means my TPS should be incredibly high yet I never find myself near the tank and in fact Warlocks, fury warriors, ret paladins and even mages end up being higher than me on threat in most fights (with me beating them in DPS). I only get in trouble on trash doing AoE since our tanks are pretty lazy about AoE threat so that's the only time I notice I do not have Subversion.

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