I don't have any specific data on the twins, but in general, buffs to you don't affect your ghoul/garg unless the buff is increased strength or attack speed. So no, I don't think pets are affected by essence or surge.
However, I suspect that one of the reasons Wandering Plague dmg is so high on that fight is because it's probably hitting for fully buffed dmg against the secondary target, similar to the rogue's Blade Flurry. For example, if you have dark essence attacking the light boss, your wandering plague ticks on the light boss are wandering to the dark boss and hitting it at the same "full dmg + essence buff" value.
Hell, here's one of my partial parses from a hm twin valk wipe this past week (we wiped... 15 times? After... one pulling it last week? So bad. Sigh at core healers being on vacation): WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay. Wandering Plague, of all abilities, is my second highest source of damage. That's obviously not what you're going to see on most fights, even AoE fights, but it's normal so far as Valks goes. 25k max WP, hehe. WP interaction on that fight is hilarious, although I don't know why it works how it does.
As far as the WP behavior goes, I believe you just got lucky with a WP proc on a disease crit, which made the disease basically deal 400% damage, plus the twin valk Power Up buff.
You are hitting a shielded target with different platform, the shield takes huge extra damage for everything you do (i guess its like 500%); you get 25k absorb on that shield, but it procs 25k damage on the other target. These numbers don't basically have anything to do with that empowered buff. Empowered buff is just a mild damage buff if you compare it to the damage buff you get for the shield if you have a platform of opposite colour.
So I've been running the 16/0/55 blood presence build since 3.2.2 and I seem to be doing worse on the meters than I was with 17/54 oblit.
I'm doing the standard IT-PS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC rotation. I'm wondering if my lack a success with the build is because I only have around 200 haste? Does this build need more like 300+ haste to really be effective?
Pets are not affected by the light/dark buffs/debuffs on Twins. Completely sure. They're also not affected by light/dark vortex, thankfully.
True Gugraali, that would help to explain the reason WP does high overall damage, but not the reason why it does absurdly high max damage on that fight. Even if it's ticking the second mob for the same value as it ticks on your primary mob (which I honestly have no clue if it does or not), and even if WMO were to count the damage it did to the primary target and the secondary target into one number (which I am 95% sure it does not), that wouldn't be enough to account for a 30k max hit. That means that you would have had to do 15k on each target. The max disease ticks are 10k. Doesn't add up.
Which is why you're off, Khaos. Your max WP tick shouldn't exceed your max disease tick in normal circumstances (aside from the fact that WP will hit multiple targets). That's simply how WP works - it deals 100% of the damage of the disease tick off of which it procced. Thus if your disease crit did 200% of your normal disease damage, the WP crit is going to do 200% of your normal disease damage - not 400%.
The only real explanation is WP double dips from something on that fight, although it's odd that nothing else does.
Edit: Actually, looking at it, Necrosis is double dipping from something as well. Max Necrosis was about 13k while the max melee was about 22k. Obviously that's not 20% of the other =p.
Curious, curious.
You are hitting a shielded target with different platform, the shield takes huge extra damage for everything you do (i guess its like 500%); you get 25k absorb on that shield, but it procs 25k damage on the other target. These numbers don't basically have anything to do with that empowered buff. Empowered buff is just a mild damage buff if you compare it to the damage buff you get for the shield if you have a platform of opposite colour.
Huh? The shield the mobs put on themselves? The shield doesn't take extra damage from everything you do. It doesn't take extra damage from anything you do (aside from the extra damage you would normally do to a mob of the opposite color). Not sure where you got that from, but I am pretty positive you are completely wrong.
Even were you right (which, I say again, I am like 99.99% sure you are not), that wouldn't explain the Necrosis/Melee discrepancy.
So I've been running the 16/0/55 blood presence build since 3.2.2 and I seem to be doing worse on the meters than I was with 17/54 oblit.
I'm doing the standard IT-PS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC rotation. I'm wondering if my lack a success with the build is because I only have around 200 haste? Does this build need more like 300+ haste to really be effective?
Looking at your armory, you are using the incorrect spec for DW. You need 3/10/58 for DW (due to how damage is done while DWing).
Assuming you were doing that rotation, you would outdps the old 3.2 Oblit with 0 haste.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Huh? The shield the mobs put on themselves? The shield doesn't take extra damage from everything you do. It doesn't take extra damage from anything you do (aside from the extra damage you would normally do to a mob of the opposite color). Not sure where you got that from, but I am pretty positive you are completely wrong.
Even were you right (which, I say again, I am like 99.99% sure you are not), that wouldn't explain the Necrosis/Melee discrepancy.
Next time you are on the boss, take a loot at the numbers you get for the absorbs. For example, my alt shadowpriest (swp tick for like 1500) got 15k SWP absorb ticks(crits? not sure, can't recognize crits on my UI if it is fully absorbed) on the shield (without empower). And for that necrosis thing; necrosis procs with a slight lag from your autoattack. You swing the shield for, let's say, 50k - the shield absorbs it, but is destroyed at the very moment, your necrosis procs from 50k auto attack and hits the val'kyr.
A free GCD (which is what you gain by using IT before you're in melee range) > RoR for one autoattack/plague strike (which is what you gain by waiting until melee range to start attacking, and then using PS). Neither makes a significant difference past the first 10 seconds of combat, but the first is indeed superior.
And, Puupi, I still think you're full of it. The shield does not take 500% increased damage. It... simply... doesn't. If it did, the fight would be a joke (alright, it's simple enough as is, but regardless). I'm not sure where you are getting that from, but I still insist you are utterly wrong.
Think if you were right. The shield absorbs 1.2 million damage on heroic. With a 15 second duration, that means you need to do 80k raid dps to it (which isn't that much to begin with, except for when you consider the time it takes to switch mobs and the fact that you are doing half damage if you don't switch colors - and, if you do switch colors, the time that takes). If your raid is doing 5x the damage, that means you would have to 16k raid dps to it to get it down in time. That's... 2 melee popping cooldowns? Yeah, no. Even if that 5x you claim was after the color modifier, meaning you were doing half damage, that would still only be 32k raid dps required. 4-5 melee switching. That's obviously not the case on 25m hard mode.
A free GCD (which is what you gain by using IT before you're in melee range) > RoR for one autoattack/plague strike (which is what you gain by waiting until melee range to start attacking, and then using PS).
Speaking of misinformation (:P) RoR doesn't apply to autoattacks.
Ouch! I most definitely deserved that. I know that RoR doesn't affect white hits ><. I really should read through my posts before actually posting them, sometimes. Just sometimes.
Regardless, my point is still true (even more so, in fact) ^^.
OP updated with a "Why spec Unholy" section, as well as a short FAQ (which I do plan on adding more questions/answers to, as they get asked time and time again). Also reordered the sections a bit, as I didn't like how they flowed. Until some new changes go up on the PTR or someone comes up with some new spec supported by math and what have you, that's probably it for 'major' edits to the OP. Minor ones will continue to happen near daily, of course.
But, for the most part, I'm pleased with the current state of the post. Just a matter of constantly updating/adding to the content, not so much changing the format of the content (which is essentially what had to be done for the SS -> Oblit -> SS transitions, as they were somewhat radical shifts).
That aside, if anyone has any good macros to use, I don't like how skimpy that section is, so I would be most appreciative if you could drop me a PM with some additions.
Consider hit the nail, the huge WP ticks should be explained by percentual damage increases affecting both disease damage and WP damage itself. It has been happening since Naxx. You would get this kind of scaling in a Thaddius fight, for example, or if you managed to hit a Razuvious add when it had the +5000% damage debuff (you'd get a 5-10 million Necrosis tick). And it can be tested easily anyways by speccing Necrosis and Bloody Vengeance.
I don't know the exact damage increase for Dark/Light Essence, but if it's around +100%, this and the Empowered buff would give you a x16 damage WP, which with a 2k damage disease crit (8k after applying the damage increase) would give us a 32k damage WP tick.
@Consider: nice addition to the OP about Unholy's benefits. First, I'd like to complain about the wording of what you say about EP: it "increases disease damage by a not insignificant amount." Not insignificant means significant; that just sounds horribly awkward. Say significant, or just 30%.
On a more significant (no pun intended) note, you probably want to add that your raid's shadow priests will thank you for bringing EP. I think Devouring Plague is something like 10-15% of a spriest's damage, so CF is a pretty big dps boost for them too.
Has anybody ever tried to sim a 12/0/59 (+\- 1pt in DC) with GoIT + IUP (considering not being gcd capped yet) + ghoul frenzy ?
Being in vacations for a while, I can't test it myself but considering that our 3 main sources of damage are : autoattack (ie necrosis+BcB), ghoul then DC, this template :
let us start a fight at max RP easily if needed
up by 25% our ghoul dmg
increase our RP generation every 30sec, using Gf+IT instead of SS, uping our DCdmg
fit a perfect 8-9s rotation, letting me hope I can keep the SoV proc
Rotation should be
BS&GF 10sec before pull >> 20PR (at least)
PS IT SS BS BS >>(20+75+2 PR = 97PR) DC DC >> 17 PR
PS IT SS BS BS DC DC >> (17 + 75 + 2= 94PR) DC DC >> 14 PR
PS IT GF IT DC BS BS DC ... Until reaching the 1mn CD of BS where BT + BS + the gain of GF&IT RP should lead to an extra DC...
Now the funny thing is that if I try to change any pieces of my gear my dps simmed dps drops to 7,5k. And by that I mean changing OH to [Blood Fury] and [Gormok's Band] to [Bladebearer's Signet]. I'm loving this spec. Switching targets is easier than before and aoe is too great to be true. I'm easily dominating our single target meters too.
While it may not be the cause of the problems, I have to point out that outrageous Agility value.
oh my, thank's for pointing that out. I've taken my stats from in-game with dksim addon and once edited results manually because I was missing one +10 stats gem. That must have been when I typo'd the agility value. Can't believe I didn't notice that, I was even thinking why my SS crit rate was 85% .
Assuming you manually re-entered your stats for the second sim with different gear, that would probably account for the DPS. 2000 agility would provide a pretty ridiculous amount of crit for your melee abilities and 4 piece disease crits to feed off. 2000 agi is 32% crit, I think.
Assuming you manually re-entered your stats for the second sim with different gear, that would probably account for the DPS. 2000 agility would provide a pretty ridiculous amount of crit for your melee abilities and 4 piece disease crits to feed off. 2000 agi is 32% crit, I think.
Yes I know, but it still doesn't explain the haste EP value. I'm not great with maths myself and knowing haste cap for epidemicless and reapingless unholy builds in BP would be great when figuring out BiS sets.
Any possibility of having the DW BiS set added to the OP?
The gearing choices are pretty much the same, so just showing a gear set with 1 or 2 items different doesn't seem worth doing.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I was playing around with the new 2H Blood Presence Unholy build last night in Ulduar and ToC25, and even with my current haste rating, it performed extremely well. However I have a question.
In my raids, We reliably have a Boomkin or Warlock that provides the +13% magic damage buff which Ebon Plague provides. This, coupled with the fact that the new Bone Shield is bulky and annoying to use every minute, made me wonder the merits of a 10-10-51 spec, grabbing everything else but skipping those two talents. It would look like this:
Following a normal rotation of IT PS SS BS BS DC DC repeat.
Losses would be 8% crit and 2% damage with a 2H weapon.
But you would gain:
- a slightly larger RP pool, which is relatively meh on nearly all fights and you could perhaps slightly benefit more from 2/5 toughness
- a 10% boost to diseases, scourge strike, death coils, icy touch, necrosis, bcb, WP and a few more things.
( Basically it buffs everything but the ghoul and melee strikes by 10%.)
Assuming that all of that added together is roughly 60%ish of your DPS (a low estimate) then that makes Black Ice a 6% DPS increase give or take, which significantly benefits from raid buffs, definitely more then 8% crit and 2% Weapon damage increase.
I'm currently at work, so my boss would have a fit if I downloaded a simulator, but if someone wants to test this it would be greatly appreciated.
09/26/09, 1:43 PM
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