Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 32

dr_AllCOM3 · 09/23/09, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kithus

Consider makes a good point. I'm showing an ~25 DPS increase using:

PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC
PS-IT-SS-BB-BB-DC-DC

That's most likely because BB has a shorter GCD than BS.

Bensch78 · 09/23/09, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Consider

24 dps difference (with 4p t9) between DWSpec C and 2H Spec A? Which is 0.3% of your overall dps. That's as close to personal choice between specs as you're going to get.

That said, I'll adjust the OP to reflect the different DW build and make note of the difference, slight as it may be.

Edit: So, I'm changing the OP, but there's one thing I noticed - you do BS then BB in the DW rotation. I take it that means BB outdamages BS by some minor amount, which is cool and all. But why wouldn't you do BS - BB, then on your next refresh simply BB - BB? Or BB - BS (then BB - BB, then BS - BB, BB - BS, etc, if that small delay would lose you some desolation uptime)?

You will lose Desolation uptime. Not much, but you will lose it.

Prejac · 09/23/09, 4:23 PM

In the OP, Section VII - Generalized Rotations, you list all rotations to start with "IT - PS". Then in the text below you say the opposite to apply diseases (PS - IT). I'm fairly sure it's supposed to be the latter, but still a little confusing.

• Embar · 09/23/09, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Bensch78

You will lose Desolation uptime. Not much, but you will lose it.

It is tight, but doable. A static alternative if you don't want to lose Desolation uptime is:
PS-IT-SS-BS-BB-DC-DC
PS-IT-SS-BB-BS-DC-DC
PS-IT-SS-BB-BB-DC-DC

Hyber · 09/23/09, 4:48 PM

Originally Posted by Consider

V | Specs
Cookie Cutter builds as of 3.2.2
Currently there are a variety of viable specs; standard Blood Presence 2H, Blood Presence Dual Wield, Imp Unholy Presence 2H, and Imp Unholy Presence Dual Wield. Which you choose is largely a matter of personal preference and current gear level. All four use almost identical rotations and, as such, have incredibly similar play styles. Blood Presence Dual Wield does do the most dps in best in slot gear, however the difference between it and Blood Presence 2H is almost nominal.

Blood Presence 2H
16/0/55 – Your base 2H build. This spec is drastically different than all of its Unholy predecessors in the sense that it drops two previously considered mandatory and vastly valuable talents - Reaping and Epidemic. Reaping is a raw dps loss now, due to the fact that two Blood Strikes outdamage one Scourge Strike (and Obliterate is no longer an option, with the Dirge nerf). Epidemic, on the other hand, is still a dps gain; it's just not large enough of one to be worth taking over the alternatives (Desolation/Necrosis). The only fault of this build is in the AoE department - the lack of Epidemic, while worth it on single targets, does cause you to perform one less Blood Boil per 20 seconds. This loss is shared with the other three 'viable' 3.2.2 specs, however, and as such is considered quite acceptable, as it is relatively minor anyways. Your auto-attack will be the highest percent of your total damage, followed by your Ghoul and then your Death Coil. Death Coil plus it's subsequent UB will be your hardest hitting individual ability, followed closely by Scourge Strike.

Blood Presence Dual Wield
3/13/55 - The new standard Unholy DW build. Which you choose - 2H or DW - is a matter of choice, more so now then ever before due to the fact that their performance is near identical (with the DW spec just barely pulling ahead in BiS gear - by about 20 dps). Glyphs and stat weights are near identical. The rotation differs slightly from the 2H one, with one Blood Boil outdamaging one Blood Strike (although you still need to Blood Strike once per 20 seconds for Desolation). Once again, your auto-attack will be the highest percent of your total damage, followed by your Ghoul and then your Death Coil. Death Coil plus its subsequent UB will be your hardest hitting individual ability, followed not-so-closely by Scourge Strike.

I specced into the top spec last night ("yay for SS coming back!...kinda...") and am enjoying it so far. (Edit: Found an answer to one of my questions. Question removed.)

Are the gear points between 2h and DW really close enough that it doesn't matter?

And, speaking of DKs in general, what specs tend to be better for lower-geared, mid-range (naxx, 10m Uld), and upper-tier gear levels? I know a lot will depend upon raid composition and whatnot, but I get asked this question by my DK players in guild quite a LOT. It seems many players forsake Unholy when they hit 80 because Blood puts out easier and more impressive single-target DPS, thus justifying their slot more easily in PuG groups.

~H

NeuroMedivh · 09/23/09, 5:23 PM

Bensch: I can't get my sims to match up with yours, using your numbers. Your Spec A, even using your exact stats, always comes up to 7817, not 7834, therefore i'm missing something. I have the rotation set the same, so I can only assume you are using different trinkets. If you could let me know which trinkets you are using in your sim, I'd appreciate it.

TigrisFrostmane · 09/23/09, 5:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kankersore

3. Bad at swap-target dps. On Northrend Beasts, the first fight is very difficult due to the Snobolds being immune to the pestilence effect and having to manually refresh diseases on the mobs. We have no cleave to speak of other than spreading diseases so I just stay on the boss the whole time while our blood dks and rogues cleave up the Snobolds

I have no idea wtf you're talking about. This is the easiest spec to switch target dps I've had on a DK so far.

Blackïce · 09/23/09, 5:55 PM

He might be referring to the fact that you can place diseases on the Snobolds and use pestilence to Gormok, but you cannot put diseases on Gormok and use pestilence to spread them to the Snobolds. It's the same idea of hitting Gormok with Heart Strike cleave when you have a Snobold targetted but not the other way around.

• frmorrison · 09/23/09, 5:57 PM

Regarding use Blood Boil more often as DW Unholy or ever as 2H, it is a spell so has a slightly higher miss rate, and significantly higher missrate without a Moonkin/SPriest.

Regarding attacking the Snobolds, you have to manually target them, hit PS + IT, then use Pestilence to put the diseases back on the boss.

To Consider, I would add somewhere that DW:

-DW Unholy builds use a Slow MH/ Highest DPS Weapon OH setup. Offhand speed does not matter for Unholy.

Azrael · 09/23/09, 5:58 PM

Originally Posted by TigrisFrostmane

I have no idea wtf you're talking about. This is the easiest spec to switch target dps I've had on a DK so far.

I believe he's referring to heroic mode. GoD doesn't refresh your diseases on the snobolds, and pestilence doesn't spread diseases from the boss to the snobolds. But pestilence does in fact spread diseases from the snobolds to the boss so switching targets is still ideal.

keebz · 09/23/09, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by Zefnar

The same could be said for 2 PC T9. So I guess the question is whether, assuming 2 PC T9 procs (I don't know the proc chance off hand) as well as if the sigil procs, if 180 + 5% more damage > 200 or vice versa. I know the sigils proc rate is incredibly high, I'd think if 2 PC T9 is similarly high it would be better to BS first. I know in the long run we are talking about 2-3 dps maybe, but I was just curious.

Edit: Farno beat me to it.

Using SS first is the safer way to go, but if you really wanted Desolation + the chance that 2PCT9 will proc, then I guess this may not be a bad rotation/alternative:

PS - IT - BS - SS - BS - DC - DC

Of course, the generally accepted "PS - IT - SS - BS - BS - DC - DC" will grant you the +200 str, followed by +5% dmg, and if you have DMC:Greatness (or Death's Verdict, but I don't have that so I'm not sure how its procs are), then the chance that it would still be up is very high.

On another note, after having done Onyxia 25 last night, Unholy AoE is king, enough said. As for single target dps, until you get used to the rotation, you will most likely be pulling less damage/dps than the previous Unholy-Oblit spec.

With all this talk of maximum DPS, I must bring this up: Damage Done. I know that DPS would scale with Damage Done in a linear fashion - higher DPS means more damage done. But this is certainly not the case with me - not sure about you guys and I didn't see it get brought up. With Unholy-Oblit, I was doing above-average Damage Done with less DPS than the Unholy-SS build, but now I'm doing less overall damage done. So what I'm trying to say here is perhaps our damage per second is very good, but once we switch from AoE to single target, due to the clipping of diseases and real-time raid dps loss (you will make mistakes in raids and due to unforeseen circumstances), Damage Done plummets. We've had a couple posts on this as well, in this thread and others that I vaguely remember: "My DPS is greater but I am very low on the Damage Done charts [for purposes of comparison pre- and post-3.2.2" or "My Damage Done is very high but my DPS is terribly low for my gear".
Just a thought...

BoMann · 09/23/09, 6:16 PM

So weapon speed, still don't matter or is it the slower the better?
or is it only MH (or OF) that is better slow than fast?

diospadre · 09/23/09, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by keebz

With all this talk of maximum DPS, I must bring this up: Damage Done.

If you're doing more DPS with less damage done it means either you're killing the bosses faster or your presence time is shit, not that your spec is any different.

keebz · 09/23/09, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by diospadre

If you're doing more DPS with less damage done it means either you're killing the bosses faster or your presence time is shit, not that your spec is any different.

I don't mean if you're doing less damage now POST-3.2.2 - not comparing damage done between fights. I mean in general when comparing to the rest of the raid. Haste indeed needs to be up to par for Blood Presence Unholy-SS to fill GCD requirements.

Drelnax · 09/23/09, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by BoMann

So weapon speed, still don't matter or is it the slower the better?
or is it only MH (or OF) that is better slow than fast?

A 2.6 or 2.7spd weapon is ideal for both MH and OH in regards to DW.