Got some weird trinket choices as well. Loatheb's shadow was valued higher than Mirror, made some experiments with those trinkets (even made mirror proc. to str). At least for me the proc. does nothing, only static value of any trinket works. I simply added proc. * uptime as static value and now the trinket choices looks ok.

Still can't cop with the GF dps-loss point of view.
Having Gf 100% up means you have to replace 1 SS by GF + IT every 3 rotations. It means 33% less SS but considering IT equal to 1/2 SS, you only loose 15% dmg on your fifth
source of dmg. In exchange , you gain 25% on your second source and 10 more PR (with GoIT) every 30 sec.
Imo, simcraft or not, it's a dps gain, especially in IUP

It may seem like a gain but the fewer times you SS the higher the chance that you don't get a sigil proc. SS has been stated several times to do less damage than IT/PS but it's required to keep the sigil buff active.

I found a very confortable way of casting Bone Shield. With my haste (340) I can do one rotation with 2x BB instead of BS + BB and after BBs I can cast BT + Bone Shield easily without my runes getting messy. No, using 2x BBs isn't a dps loss because I play 3/13/55 DW.

Only the proc is simulated, not the static value. Anyway, you have to remember that mirror of truth is 10% chance on crit and the banner is 20% on hit.
ps: I would really appreciate that if someone found something that needs to be noticed about the sim, please post it in the dedicated thread.

[e2] Ugh, just went through 10 other fight logs. Could have swore i saw crits (3500ish WP 'ticks', non Twin Valks) in there at some point after getting 4pc t9, but now I don't see any. NM. :X

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does logs really report WP double damages as crits? As in, does it actually count as a crit for WP, or just differing damage values? The WP average in your log is higher than disease hit average, which would lend itself to not displaying. Or did I completely misunderstand the observation?

With my actual gear i have 17% haste aprox. What about some "haste cap"?

Thx

Edit: Heh at the above. Started typing this post before that one went up =p.

I've had a lot of PMs the past couple of days asking about the haste soft cap, which I guess I made the mistake of throwing in somewhere in the OP last time I editted. There really isn't a haste soft cap as there is the hit soft cap, or (for tanks) the expertise soft cap. It's a much fuzzier area, which apparently confused some people. So, I figured I would just toss some numbers out there so people understand what it means and exactly why haste is so much more valuable now than it was previously or as it is for other melee classes:

To begin with, some numbers to keep in mind:

• Your base rotation is 7 GCDs (10.5 seconds with 0 haste) per rune refresh (10 seconds).
• Of those 7 GCDs, 3 of those are spell GCDs (in a 2H rotation. In a DW one, it's about 4).
• The spell GCD can be reduced by haste, the melee GCD cannot.
• It takes 32.79 haste rating for 1% spell haste.
• X% haste does make you cast X% faster (or reduce the spell gcd by X%). It instead allows you to cast X% more spells than you would without that haste in a specific time period. The formula is essentially:
  New Casting Time = (Base Casting Time)/(1 + (% Spell Haste / 100)).
• You receive a total of 8% spell haste in a raid setting. 3% is from a moonkin or ret paladin and 5% is from a non-enhancement shaman.

So to begin with, you want to knock 0.5 seconds off your rotation, as otherwise you're sitting on runes. Doing so essentially gives you a straight up 5% increase to yellow dps (on top of the normal autoattack/pet increases). Since 3 of those 7 GCDs are spell gcds, that's 4.5 seconds worth of gcds which you need to reduce to 4.0 seconds - which means you are reducing each of those 3 gcds to 1.333 seconds each. Plugging that in to the already stated formula, that would require 12.5% spell haste. Since you are receiving 8% from raid buffs, that's 4.5% you want from gear - which is 147.56 haste rating.

That makes 147.56 the initial soft cap. The most important. It's one everyone should reach, and it's pretty much a joke to do so.

However, the spell GCD reduction aspect of haste continues to benefit you.

First, there's Blood Tap + Bone Shield. As already shown a couple pages ago, it's better to Blood Tap + Bone Shield in place of a Blood Strike than to push your whole rotation off by 1.5 seconds. However, if you can reduce your rotation by a further 1.5 seconds per minute, that essentially gives you a free Blood Strike per minute. Per minute, you have a total of 42 GCDs (18 spell GCDs) but you want to be able to do 43 for the extra Blood Strike. 43 x 1.5 = 64.5 seconds. You want to knock off 4.5 seconds from those 18 spell GCDs, which means you need to reduce the spell GCD from 1.5 (27 seconds) to 1.25 (22.5 seconds). Plugging that in to the formula once again, that takes you 20% spell haste, or 12% post raid buffs. Which requires 393.48 haste, a much harder to reach number, but something you surpass in BiS.

Then, there's Revitalize. How much you get from this can vary a ton. It depends on the fight, on the number of Resto druids your raid has, and on simply RNG. Let's assume you get enough RP for one Death Coil a minute (which would mean you have a single Rejuv up on you for at least ~80% of the fight or WG up on you for ~27% of the fight. That's high for some fights, low for others. It makes math simple, however, so going with it.). That's one Death Coil in addition to being able to Blood Tap + Bone Shield on an empty GCD, which itself was on top of cutting off that initial .5 seconds per 10.5. So, you want to do 44 gcds per minute, 19 of which are going to be spell gcds. That means you need to get your spell GCD down to 1.184 seconds. Which means you need 26.67% spell haste. Which means you need 18.67% spell haste from gear alone. Which means you need 612.189 haste, a number you aren't going to reach in any normal gear.

Then there's AMS, something you can use at least once a minute for a full bar of RP on almost every single CC fight. AMS is probably 2 DCs a minute, essentially.

Then there's HoW, something you can always spend empty GCDs on if there's nothing better.

Doing the math for those above two would be redundant - hopefully you get the point by now.

The bottom line is this: You can always use free GCDs. Always, always, always. You can, I guarantee you. Unless you raid with zero resto druids, zero disc priests, and never use AMS (in which case you have other things to work out).

So the reason I threw out those numbers (which I could have continued with, but figured you got the point) was to show that haste takes more and more to get extra GCDs out of it. For a caster, this isn't the case, since all of their GCDs are spell gcds, but since we're half and half (ish), it is. As such, while you may never hit the haste hard cap (which would be a GCD of 1 second, which requires 50% spell haste, or 42% from gear - 1377.18 haste rating), haste does somewhat decrease in value the higher you go - but until you hit that hard cap (which you won't, short of during heroism or during double procs - something like potion of speed + comet's trail or potion of speed + the engineering enchant) haste is still incredibly valuable - more than it ever was pre-3.2.2 (since we never before have had such a high portion of our GCDs be spell GCDs). On top of the gcd reduction, it's still increasing your autoattack/ghoul damage the entire time, too.

TLDR: Haste is good. There's a soft cap, but it depends entirely on the specific fight, your specific raid composition, and other such matters. You'll probably never reach the soft cap, however, as at the very least it consists of the haste it takes you to bring your rotation down to 10 seconds + the haste to add a Blood Strike per minute + the haste it takes to free GCDs for DCs from Revitalize + the haste to free GCDs for DCs from AMS + the haste to free GCDs for HoW + the haste to free GCDs for the DCs from the HoWs. You won't reach it. The soft cap is probably the same as the hard cap for most people on most fights - 1377.18 haste rating. I and others probably used the term soft cap incorrectly, which led to some of the confusion. Haste potions and haste procs (engineering, Comet's Trail, etc) can bring you to the hard cap, which is why they're not quite as valuable as the sim let's on. Even if they don't bring you to the hard cap, the closer you get to it, the less valuable it gets (although it never drops to the point of undesirability). It's kinda like crit - the more of it, the less valuable it is. But until you hit the hard cap (crit has one, btw), it never changes all that much in value. Not like ArP, which is the opposite (increases the more you have) but at an exponential curve.

Not a very short TLDR, but whatever!

Thanks for clarifying how haste works for us. The other posts on the topic talked about latency a lot so I really wasn't sure what to aim for besides trying to get over 400.

There's also some talk of using Blood Boil more since that is a spell as well. It's obviously a pretty complicated topic but your post at least explains the basic math.

I have an offtopic question:
When Ulduar was starting and discussion of dps rotations at the time began, it was mentioned that at some point in time it would be possible for DnD to overtake other strikes in damage, and that single target dps rotation would have DnD in it.
I'm wondering if that point has been reached? Did anyone consider that?
At the time DnD was compared to the old rotation with SS glyph.

For starters, looking at an average DnD on wowmeters it's around 2k more than SS+BS. DnD gives 15RP, while the latter is 30RP. However I think some loss in RP can be alleviated with AMS and druid hots. Looking at possible 3/5 Bladed Armor and 5/5 Black Ice build, plus 20% glyphed DnD.

edit:
Actually how about taking this new rotation and just replacing SS+BS in every other rotation with DnD? I haven't checked but from what I remember Kathorie's simulator doesn't have DnD.
And a build like this 8/10/53.

DnD should be more raw damage than SS+BS, there's also 15RP loss and one gcd gained. If that gcd can be filled with a DC (from druid hots or AMS) that's another possible dps gain. Am I so wrong?