Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything - Page 41

Megaera · 09/29/09, 2:17 PM

In the OP spec discussion when IUP is taken for the purpose of DPSing in UP the points are pulled from the Blood tree, but when discussing optional talents (like IUP for the purpose of runspeed) the suggestion is to drop points from the weaker talents in the Unholy tree. Wouldn't it be best to drop the same points in either case?

Consider · 09/30/09, 12:39 AM

That was simply a leftover from 3.2.0 version of that section which I must have missed. You are better off taking points out of Bladed Armor/Dark Conviction (the first if you have 4pt9, the latter if you don't) than either Necrosis or Desolation. Was unable to do so sooner for an amusing reason, but regardless, it is fixed now.

________________________________________

Kahorie's Simulator *can* use DnD. Running the spec you suggest with a DnD rotation in place of the regular was a dps loss, however, so far as the sim goes. DnD does ~2000 damage more than SS + BS. That ~2000 damage doesn't beat what you gain from the 15 additional RP, the higher uptime on SoV, and the higher uptime on 2p t9 (not that the last of those is that significant, but still, it is a factor. SoV uptime will drop somewhat more noticeably, however, but that too is still nothing too huge).

But, yeah. Using the spec you suggested with the rotation you suggested was ~7597 dps, as opposed to the 8087 dps of the normal 16/0/55 with a normal rotation or ~7732 dps as the spec you suggested with a 'normal' rotation.

Of course, if you can use that extra GCD every 20 seconds (and you can use it on a Death Coil, not on a Horn or whatever) - something the sim doesn't account for - then it would probably win. If you can use every single one. But that's assuming you are getting enough RP from revitalize to fill in any empty gcds you would normally have thanks to haste plus the extra GCDs you gain from that rotation. An iffy assumption to make. If an extra gcd is that valuable, you're probably just better off going an epidemic and/or reaping build, as those two talents will gain you a gcd a piece, too, at a lesser cost.

Edit: Some tweaking shows that even with such a rotation. Glyph of Death and Decay isn't worth it. Just stick with the traditional 3. Not using it still doesn't boost the build + rotation up enough, however, to change anything.

Riz · 09/30/09, 2:12 AM

Consider in regards to your post about haste when referring to Dark Matter as a buff are you talking about the proc from the actual trinket Dark Matter or did you get confused with the proc from Comet's Trail.

Althir · 09/30/09, 5:20 AM

From the OP:

Originally Posted by Consider

Why is Epidemic no longer considered mandatory and included in the standard builds?
This post (specifically the edit) does a solid job explaining the upsides and downsides of Epidemic. It simply isn't a single target dps boost any longer - and not a significant enough of an AoE one to justify the point spent. Plague Strike plus Icy Touch only do about 100-300 damage less than a single Scourge Strike - except the the former also generates 75% more runic power than the latter (35 to SS's 20). If Epidemic didn't cost any talent points, it would hardly be worth it. The fact that it does, and you would have to sacrifice from Bladed Armor (or Dark Conviction, depending on your gear level) just makes the gap too large to be worth considering.

Why is Reaping no longer considered mandatory or, at the least, optional?
Reaping is a raw dps loss. No question. Epidemic at least has some upside in terms of AoE - Reaping is nothing but bad. Two Blood Strikes outdamage a single Scourge Strike at most gear levels, thus you lose dps speccing into Reaping as opposed to just not spending three talent points. That's the dictionary definition of a wasted talent.

Even at gear levels where Scourge Strike will still out damage Blood Strike, you still gain more dps by spending those three points in Bladed Armor and/or Dark Conviction.

Why do the two hand builds not pick up Black Ice?
Scourge Strike is an ever decreasing portion of our total dps. With 4p t9, Dark Conviction becomes that much more attractive. Subversion is a mandatory talent now, so even if you did pick up Black Ice, you would still have to shove points into the Blood tree. So on. The bottom line is: Black Ice just doesn't do as much dps. There isn't much more to it than that.

This series of FAQ answers raises some questions for me. First: If 1 PS and 1 IT is better than 1 SS because of the RP gain, why isn't Reaping to create 2x Icy Touch viable? Is Blood Strike + 10 RP better than IT + 20 RP?

Next, while SS does an ever decreasing portion of our total damage, the new UB and focus on generating RP for Death Coil benefit from Black Ice greatly. The 4p T9 bonus that is so beloved does as well, in addition to the diminished SS and Necrosis. Is the white + Blood Strike contribution so significant that the huge bonus to these other abilities is marginalized compared to some Crit and (at this iLVL, unimpressive) AP?

Finally, how is Subversion a must-have? If SS does an ever decreasing portion of our total damage, how does 9% crit for it and BS outweigh the 3% flat melee crit (that benefits the 4pT9, does it not?) from Annihilation, which is readily available in a Black Ice build? In other words: Unimpressive, non-scaling AP from Bladed Armor + 4-5% crit + 9% SS crit and BS Crit versus 3% crit and 10% damage to a large fraction (half, maybe more?). I feel confident the frost sub-spec would also do more damage in an AoE situation, since 100% of AoE damage benefits from Black Ice. (5 points in Bladed Armor and 5 points in DC < 5 points in Black Ice and 3 points in Annihilation)

zagor · 09/30/09, 6:49 AM

I've been running the simulator trying to get the same results, and I don't quite understand the character stats you use.

<Strength>1863</Strength>
<Agility>324</Agility>
<Intel>58</Intel>
<Armor>13973</Armor>
<AttackPower>1257</AttackPower>
<HitRating>328</HitRating>
<CritRating>728</CritRating>
<HasteRating>345</HasteRating>
<ArmorPenetrationRating>312</ArmorPenetrationRating>
<ExpertiseRating>177</ExpertiseRating>

And using a 255.7 dps 3.6 speed mainhand.

Agility at 324 is big, but I suppose that's from a weapon. Where does 1257AP come from? Is there a list with items for that particular setup? It doesn't look very optimal, at least considering Ghoul takes a % of strength and not ap.

Consider · 09/30/09, 8:35 AM

Yes, Comet's Trail, not Dark Matter. One Algalon trinket getting confused with the other ><.

This series of FAQ answers raises some questions for me. First: If 1 PS and 1 IT is better than 1 SS because of the RP gain, why isn't Reaping to create 2x Icy Touch viable? Is Blood Strike + 10 RP better than IT + 20 RP?

Because PS does the majority of the damage in a PS + IT, not IT (in the normal spec, anyways. The gap is much smaller in the spec you go on to propose). And disease clipping is undesirble - although doing it to an extent is ok, less is better as it is a dps loss.

That, and even if it is a dps boost to do 2x IT over 2x BS, that doesn't mean Reaping itself is a dps boost compared to your other talent choices.

Next, while SS does an ever decreasing portion of our total damage, the new UB and focus on generating RP for Death Coil benefit from Black Ice greatly. The 4p T9 bonus that is so beloved does as well, in addition to the diminished SS and Necrosis. Is the white + Blood Strike contribution so significant that the huge bonus to these other abilities is marginalized compared to some Crit and (at this iLVL, unimpressive) AP?

Yes, or so every sim/all the math to date has suggested. Dark Conviction + Bladed Armor + 2h Weapon Spec > Black Ice, and by a decent margin. There's not really a ton else to say about it. Black Ice only affects ~40% of your damage (slightly less, in fact), which makes it like spending 10 talent points in 8% damage - a rather weak investment.

Finally, how is Subversion a must-have? If SS does an ever decreasing portion of our total damage, how does 9% crit for it and BS outweigh the 3% flat melee crit (that benefits the 4pT9, does it not?) from Annihilation, which is readily available in a Black Ice build? In other words: Unimpressive, non-scaling AP from Bladed Armor + 4-5% crit + 9% SS crit and BS Crit versus 3% crit and 10% damage to a large fraction (half, maybe more?). I feel confident the frost sub-spec would also do more damage in an AoE situation, since 100% of AoE damage benefits from Black Ice. (5 points in Bladed Armor and 5 points in DC < 5 points in Black Ice and 3 points in Annihilation)

Even if you took Annihilation, you would still take Subversion. You just don't have anywhere else you would rather better benefit from those points (unless you decided Epidemic + Reaping were worth it, but if they did, you would find Subversion even more valuable, so yeah).

Yes, it might do more damage in AoE. Maybe - I think you somewhat underestimate DC and BA on AoE (although the two together aren't as potent as Black Ice, of course, the gap isn't going to be all that huge. Crit and AP are the two best stats for AoE damage, after all). If AoE is your main concern, however, you would see a larger boost to begin with by simply taking Epidemic, GoDnD, etc - although obviously this plus those would be more than any one individually.

But on a single target? The math doesn't add up. The sim results, for what those are worth:

3/13/55:

Ability	Total	%	Landed	Hit%	Crit%	Miss%	Average
MainHand	1006684207	17.5	273303	60.8	38	1.2	3683.4
DeathCoil	737319185	12.8	120819	64.9	34	1.1	6102.7
Ghoul	691333769	12	677131	86.9	13.1	0	1021
ScourgeStrike	464037814	8.1	65732	43.8	55.1	1.1	7059.5
BloodPlague	441140820	7.7	204239	58.9	41.1	0	2159.9
FrostFever	418743354	7.3	204320	65.5	34.5	0	2049.4
BloodStrike	376494044	6.6	120484	49.2	49.6	1.2	3124.8
WanderingPlague	351639439	6.1	167198	98.9	0	1.1	2103.1
Gargoyle	294270015	5.1	70968	86	12.9	1.1	4146.5
PlagueStrike	233274497	4.1	65732	52.1	46.6	1.3	3548.9
IcyTouch	220313603	3.8	65732	64.8	34.1	1.1	3351.7
Necrosis	201368295	3.5	273303	100	0	0	736.8
BloodCakedBlade	158831033	2.8	80876	98.8	0	1.2	1963.9
UnholyBlight	147467658	2.6	120819	100	0	0	1220.6
Horn	0	0	9274	100	0	0	0
BoneShield	0	0	10980	100	0	0	0
BloodTap	0	0	10960	100	0	0	0
DPS 7976
Total Damage 5742.92m in 200h
Threat Per Second 4007
Generated in 126s
Template: Test3
Rotation: unholy
Presence: Blood
Sigil: Virulence
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation: True

16/0/55

Ability	Total	%	Landed	Hit%	Crit%	Miss%	Average
MainHand	1122814496	19	273302	55.9	42.9	1.2	4108.3
DeathCoil	743998772	12.6	125043	60	38.8	1.1	5949.9
Ghoul	690749668	11.7	677130	87	13	0	1020.1
ScourgeStrike	452526888	7.7	65670	41.5	57.3	1.2	6890.9
BloodPlague	424698462	7.2	204662	56.8	43.2	0	2075.1
FrostFever	412266336	7	204623	60.5	39.5	0	2014.8
BloodStrike	401803312	6.8	120362	47.6	51.2	1.2	3338.3
WanderingPlague	360699723	6.1	176404	98.9	0	1.1	2044.7
Gargoyle	305230330	5.2	70808	85.9	13	1.1	4310.7
PlagueStrike	251477468	4.3	65670	50.4	48.5	1.2	3829.4
Necrosis	224561906	3.8	273302	100	0	0	821.7
IcyTouch	187307796	3.2	65670	59.8	39.2	1.1	2852.3
BloodCakedBlade	170199853	2.9	80871	98.8	0	1.2	2104.6
UnholyBlight	148798129	2.5	125043	100	0	0	1190
Horn	0	0	5554	100	0	0	0
BoneShield	0	0	10978	100	0	0	0
BloodTap	0	0	10959	100	0	0	0
DPS 8190
Total Damage 5897.13m in 200h
Threat Per Second 4128
Generated in 127s
Template: Test2
Rotation: unholy
Presence: Blood
Sigil: Virulence
RuneEnchant: FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation: True

Trying to use the old SS rotation and/or taking Epidemic/Reaping with the build you suggest simply performs worse.

As to Zagor above, is that Bensch's set? His variation of the base Ulduar set? Whatever it is, it's not what I use (and not a very good set for anyone to use, in my eyes, for a variety of reasons) - if your post was directed at me. So far as the DnD sims (and the ones in the post went), I simply used my own current gear, which is pretty middle-of-the-road TotC pretty similar in stats to what most have, and much more realistic than that set (wherever it comes from) or the base Ulduar 2H set (which is pretty terrible to use these days).

Not to say my own set is perfect, and it's not what I use for EP values and such, but regardless, for stuff like this, it's easiest, and as accurate as anything. The type of gaps I get above are just as apparent if I flip over to using the BiS Set.

zagor · 09/30/09, 9:27 AM

Could you please make one test with your gearset for 16-55 noEpidemic ITglyph and using a modified rotation of: (if I didn't make the rotation all wrong)

<PlagueStrike retry='1'></PlagueStrike>
<IcyTouch retry='1'></IcyTouch>
<ScourgeStrike retry='1'></ScourgeStrike>
<BloodStrike retry='1'></BloodStrike>
<BloodStrike retry='1'></BloodStrike>
<DeathCoil retry='0'></DeathCoil>
<DeathCoil retry='0'></DeathCoil>
<PlagueStrike retry='1'></PlagueStrike>
<IcyTouch retry='1'></IcyTouch>
<DeathandDecay retry='0'></DeathandDecay>
<BloodStrike retry='1'></BloodStrike>
<DeathCoil retry='0'></DeathCoil>
<DeathCoil retry='0'></DeathCoil>

When I first ran this I thought to test run it in 16-55 and only change Dark Death to DnD glyph, but I forgot and simmed with DD glyph.
The result I got was within 50dps from my normal simmed 16-55 noEpidemic ITglyph.
I doublechecked the talent templates, the dnd rotation was the one posted here, character stats were the ones posted above (from Bensch), and standard rotation for 16-55 was:

<PlagueStrike retry='1'></PlagueStrike>
<IcyTouch retry='1'></IcyTouch>
<ScourgeStrike retry='1'></ScourgeStrike>
<BloodStrike retry='1'></BloodStrike>
<BloodStrike retry='1'></BloodStrike>
<DeathCoil retry='0'></DeathCoil>
<DeathCoil retry='0'></DeathCoil>

knuth.ryan · 09/30/09, 1:29 PM

I was reading through the thread and hadn't found any mention of this (forgive me if I missed a post or two).

Why do we not take advantage of BS early on in our rotation to have the advantage of Desolation and the chance to proc 2PT9? I would think my rotation of

IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> DC -> HoW -> DC

IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> DC -> DC

may be slightly superior due to those two advantages. The bonus really only affects one BS and one SS - but still is a slight DPS increase. Is this naive thinking - am I missing something obvious?

Consider · 09/30/09, 1:33 PM

To the above, that screws with your ability to use Blood Tap + Bone Shield in place of a Blood Strike. It will end up eating an Unholy rune instead.

That, and the dps difference is not noticable over a long fight.
________________________

That's the rotation I had used previously (except I swapped DnD and the third Blood Strike. Wouldn't have changed anything). Doing it again with 16/0/55, it's still a ~300 dps loss. 7811 to 8190.
________________________

I was running EP values for BiS gear, and nothing significant changes, except this - crit does overtake haste. Barely, but it does. Not enough to change any gearing choices, but it does.

What that means is you're, eventually, going to want to use str/crit gems instead of str/haste gems for yellow sockets. What the exact turning point is, I can't really say, but it's somewhere between regular CC 10/25 normal gear and BiS gear.

Personally, I would use the former even if you aren't at the point where it's flat out superior since the gap is the equivalent of (maybe) 2 AP anyways, but the first will win on any fight with at least one additional target. But many like to go out of their way for that extra bit of single target dps, and thus have haste/str.

Any which way, figured I would share. Like I said, it's not that significant of a shift - BiS lists are still BiS. Simply a matter of gemming and min-maxing from that.

Necromir · 09/30/09, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by knuth.ryan

I was reading through the thread and hadn't found any mention of this (forgive me if I missed a post or two).

Why do we not take advantage of BS early on in our rotation to have the advantage of Desolation and the chance to proc 2PT9? I would think my rotation of

IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> DC -> HoW -> DC

IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> DC -> DC

may be slightly superior due to those two advantages. The bonus really only affects one BS and one SS - but still is a slight DPS increase. Is this naive thinking - am I missing something obvious?

Actually taking your thought process one step further, change the opening rotation to IT - PS - BS - SS - BS - DC - HoW - DC. This would account for Deso + 2pT9 > SoV > 2pT9 proc values.

Edit: Using a BS last in the non-dump part of the rotation allows for a BT/BS swap if needed. Then again like like stated it's probably just complicating a simple rotation for a slight gain if any in the long run. Since this only affects the initial rotation of the fight the DPS gained/lost is extremely tiny anyway.

clowningaround · 09/30/09, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Necromir

Actually taking your thought process one step further, change the opening rotation to IT - PS - BS - SS - BS - DC - HoW - DC. This would account for Deso + 2pT9 > SoV > 2pT9 proc values.

Edit: Using a BS last in the non-dump part of the rotation allows for a BT/BS swap if needed. Then again like like stated it's probably just complicating a simple rotation for a slight gain if any in the long run. Since this only affects the initial rotation of the fight the DPS gained/lost is extremely tiny anyway.

I've been doing this exact thing in my rotations and haven't noticed an appreciable loss in dps. In fact, what it has allowed me to do is to sub a DnD in every 2nd rotation for fights where aoe is necessary without really interrupting my flow. I'd agree that making DnD part of the rotation lowers single target dps, but having the flexibility to swap it in seemed to make it easier for me on aoe fights. That might also explain the insignificant drop in dps given the structure of the fights in ToC.

Grigori · 09/30/09, 2:05 PM

Originally Posted by vank

Something that's been on my mind of late is the lack of discussion on movement and how it relates to the currnet specs in the OP. I realize that this is very hard (impossible?) to quantify, but it is a factor that many encounters have that a simulator can't account for. The Enhancement Sim thread is trying to figure out a way to account for movement by using a range mod in conjunction with some agreed upon figures to analyze how much of a factor being out of range of a Boss has on various encounters.

My question is, do you guys think that the current -epidemic -reaping builds benefit from or are hurt by encounters that require you to run back into range versus a rotaion that has more free globals, like the old 12-0-59 spec.

Whether one spec loses more damage than another when interrupted depends on the interruption scenario and the knowledge (and execution) of the player. Having "idle time" in the rotation is obviously an advantage; having redundant disease time (from either points in Epidemic or more frequent disease refreshes or both) is obviously another advantage.

How prepared the player is at handling interruptions for his spec obviously makes a substantial difference. If the player only has the option to either follow his rotation or restart his rotation, then the less back-loaded rotations will have the advantage. Of course, players have more options than that, and may be prepared to use other available options.

If you are using a Reaping build (either "classic" or 13-GCD), you will want to be prepared to use at least two more options. First, know where rune flips can occur when interrupted (between the second PS and the last SS in the 13-GCD rotation, for instance) and how to continue without unnecessary DPS loss; second, know a front-loaded alternate rotation for starting from DDFFUU.

Originally Posted by Taldanis

So I've been running the 16/0/55 blood presence build since 3.2.2 and I seem to be doing worse on the meters than I was with 17/54 oblit.

I'm doing the standard IT-PS-SS-BS-BS-DC-DC rotation. I'm wondering if my lack a success with the build is because I only have around 200 haste? Does this build need more like 300+ haste to really be effective?

Keep in mind that the huge Unholy DPS increase everybody is seeing results from the 4PT9 bug fix. Even if a player were using a spec/rotation that would have netted a DPS loss over its 3.2 counterpart, he would still see a huge DPS gain overall in 3.2.2 from the 4PT9 bug fix, especially in encounters with substantial AE components.

If you are seeing a DPS loss where everybody else is seeing a huge DPS gain, you are not necessarily doing anything wrong beyond simply not having 4PT9 (which I assume that you don't have, because I don't think there is any conceivable way for even a half-reasonable Unholy build not to see a huge DPS gain in 3.2.2 with 4PT9, let alone a DPS loss).

Originally Posted by zagor

I have an offtopic question:
When Ulduar was starting and discussion of dps rotations at the time began, it was mentioned that at some point in time it would be possible for DnD to overtake other strikes in damage, and that single target dps rotation would have DnD in it.
I'm wondering if that point has been reached? Did anyone consider that?
At the time DnD was compared to the old rotation with SS glyph.

For starters, looking at an average DnD on wowmeters it's around 2k more than SS+BS. DnD gives 15RP, while the latter is 30RP. However I think some loss in RP can be alleviated with AMS and druid hots. Looking at possible 3/5 Bladed Armor and 5/5 Black Ice build, plus 20% glyphed DnD.

edit:
Actually how about taking this new rotation and just replacing SS+BS in every other rotation with DnD? I haven't checked but from what I remember Kathorie's simulator doesn't have DnD.
And a build like this 8/10/53.

DnD should be more raw damage than SS+BS, there's also 15RP loss and one gcd gained. If that gcd can be filled with a DC (from druid hots or AMS) that's another possible dps gain. Am I so wrong?

I have tanked with a 8/10/53 DnD build, BCB and all using 15-sec rotations, but I haven't considered running a DPS version because of aggro issues (not from the high threat of DnD, but from DnD being on the ground tagging adds before the tank does). Effective disease uptime is substantially higher than the theoretical 90% of classic and 13-GCD builds; transitions between single-target and AE rotations are naturally seamless. With so much of single-target ability damage shifted to diseases due to purely PvP considerations (a.k.a the Sunder Armor issue), DnD for single target is certainly a possibility if the tank can deal with the add aggro issues.

Running numbers for a few different options suggests that, for a DPS version you will want to dual-wield with a Blood subspec and run a 15-sec rotation (remember, tier 1 Frost is almost a complete loss for a DPS spec). Now, DnD rotations have tricky rune timing due to the targetting click and two-way interaction with the grace period, so if you are running your rotations through the sim, you will want to manually model and test your rotation's rune timing to make sure that there is no significant deviation from what the sim is giving you.

skurdt · 09/30/09, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by Consider

I was running EP values for BiS gear, and nothing significant changes, except this - crit does overtake haste. Barely, but it does. Not enough to change any gearing choices, but it does.

What that means is you're, eventually, going to want to use str/crit gems instead of str/haste gems for yellow sockets. What the exact turning point is, I can't really say, but it's somewhere between regular CC 10/25 normal gear and BiS gear.

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<character>
	<stat>
		<Strength>1880</Strength>
		<Agility>155</Agility>
		<Intel>59</Intel>
		<Armor>14188</Armor>
		<AttackPower>437</AttackPower>
		<HitRating>270</HitRating>
		<CritRating>658</CritRating>
		<HasteRating>279</HasteRating>
		<ArmorPenetrationRating>263</ArmorPenetrationRating>
		<ExpertiseRating>99</ExpertiseRating>
	</stat>
	<weapon>
		<count>1</count>
		<mainhand>
			<dps>232.6</dps>
			<speed>3.6</speed>
		</mainhand>
		<offhand>
			<dps>0</dps>
			<speed>0</speed>
		</offhand>
	</weapon>
	<EP><base>50</base></EP>
	<Set>
		<T72PDPS>0</T72PDPS>
		<T74PDPS>0</T74PDPS>
		<T82PDPS>0</T82PDPS>
		<T84PDPS>0</T84PDPS>
		<T92PDPS>1</T92PDPS>
		<T94PDPS>1</T94PDPS>
		<T72PTNK>0</T72PTNK>
		<T74PTNK>0</T74PTNK>
		<T82PTNK>0</T82PTNK>
		<T84PTNK>0</T84PTNK>
	</Set>
	<ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>1</ChaoticSkyflareDiamond>
	<trinket>
		<MjolnirRunestone>0</MjolnirRunestone>
		<GrimToll>0</GrimToll>
		<BitterAnguish>0</BitterAnguish>
		<Mirror>0</Mirror>
		<Greatness>1</Greatness>
		<DCDeath>0</DCDeath>
		<Victory>0</Victory>
		<Necromantic>0</Necromantic>
		<Bandit>1</Bandit>
		<Pyrite>0</Pyrite>
		<DarkMatter>0</DarkMatter>
		<OldGod>0</OldGod>
		<Comet>0</Comet>
		<DeathChoice>0</DeathChoice>
	</trinket>
</character>

EP:50 | AttackPower | 1 
EP:50 | Strength | 3,06 
EP:50 | Agility | 1,22 
EP:50 | CritRating | 2,03 
EP:50 | HasteRating | 2,03 
EP:50 | ArmorPenetrationRating | 1,13 
EP:50 | ExpertiseRating | 1,16 
EP:50 | BeforeMeleeHitCap<8% | 3,03 
EP:50 | SpellHitRating | 1,68 
EP:10 | WeaponDPS | 4,38 
EP:0.1 | WeaponSpeed | 250 
EP:50 | After spell hit cap | 0 
EP: | 2T7 | 38,98 
EP: | 4T7 | 5,08 
EP: | 2T8 | 125,42 
EP: | 4T8 | 96,61 
EP: | 2T9 | 147,46 
EP: | 4T9 | 669,49

I'm getting the exact same EP values for haste and crit and I'm far from beeing BiS equipped.

deathspawn · 09/30/09, 2:34 PM

hello all, i am new to posting and i have been reading and absorbing the amazing advice on this forums for over six months. I know the following question will sound noobish but I cant figure out whats going on and was hoping for assistance.

long story short: im a DW frost dps'er and my raid asked me to switch to unholy so i could provide ebon plague to the raid.

anyways, i cannot seem to replicate the DPS in unholy DW that i do in frost DW no matter what i try. I specced into the blood-presence unholy DW build on the first page into this thread and against a dummy i do about 2600 dps +300-350 for pet compared to frost where im getting around 3400-3600 on average. In the raid ToC25 last night i was doing ~6100dps as frost DW and only around 5300 + 500 as unholy.

I am following very closely the rotation listed on the front page and when i was specced in there i had all the appropriate glyphs as well.

feel free to take a look at my armory it might provide something im overlooking.

I also have [Westfall Saber] westfall saber as an offhand that i tried in unholy but was not able to match the dps either either offhand.

Is there something with the stats on my gear that is preventing unholy from matching frost?

thank you so much for any help anyone can offer and I hope my first post wasnt too painful for anyone.

Novusordo · 09/30/09, 2:52 PM

You don't have a lot of ArP, and your haste is enough that you should do fine with UH DW. If you're not seeing good results with the 3/13/55 build, try 0/17/54. Use sigil of VH and 2pT8. Its a trickier spec to play though, and both UH DW variations are pretty different from frost DW. I'd suggest going and beating on a dummy for however long it takes to get used to the rotations/priorities.