First time poster here. I have been following this thread quite close and in turn i have seen substantial dps gains with the advice contained herein.

I was wondering if there is a significant differnce in a 2-H 16/0/55 build over a dual wielding 3/13/55 build respectively?
Is there a sizeable differnce between single target vs aoe with either build? I feel my gear is very solid and unfortunatly i have had poor results with a ILVL245 2 hander in droping. I have picked up both the 245 axes from 25 man normal and was wondering if the regemming required in it would produce a significant result over my current build using an aesirs edge.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I have posted my logs of a variety of fights we did last night and I know we can do very well on aoe fights but I would like to up my single target dps a bit if possible.

I noticed something when I was doing vezax hard yesterday, I wasn't being able to finish the normal rotation before 2 runes came back from CD. I did some tests on the dummy today and my rune cooldowns were always at 8s after the first few rotations. Granted, I play on 400ms which definively increases my rotation, but I could see this happening at all latencies after some rotations. Shouldn't we "reset" the rotation when we see this happening by ignoring one of the 2 DCs and burning the runes as soon as they come out of CD?

To all the BS/SS rotation talk, it really doesn't matter. Both have upsides. If you do SS first, you get the sigil to proc sooner and, when you do BS, sunders should already be stacked, even if you aren't using a prot warrior. If you BS first, you get Desolation and maybe 2p t9 (even with 2 BS, it's still a smaller chance than the sigil), but have your BSes hitting at a point when sunders might not be fully stacked. At most it's maybe a 300 damage difference one way or the other. A 300 damage difference that first 10 seconds, and then it doesn't matter at all the rest of the fight. 300 damage over, say, a 5 minute fight isn't even 1 dps.

Choose at your own preference. So far as the sim is concerned, doing SS - BS - BS is superior to doing BS - BS - SS (or BS - SS - BS) by about 35 dps. Not sure why the sim is saying that, but regardless, since even doing the math one's self, it doesn't matter anyways, I prefer to just leave it as SS - BS - BS. Simplest. Most logical, if you consider priority. At worst it makes no difference, as the napkin math shows - at best it's a dps gain, as the sim shows. Who knows.

The value of haste and crit has more to do with how much haste and crit you already have than the overall quality of your gear, if that makes sense Both stats depreciate the higher you go (although certainly not to the extent that ArP appreciates with itself). Thus which is superior just depends primarily on your actual haste/crit levels. Your personal crit, for instance, happens to be rather low, while your haste isn proportionally closer to what you'll have in BiS, so it's going to value higher - despite the fact that your gear is overall weak (relatively speaking). I simply used BiS numbers as that's a level everyone is aiming for and anyone can plug in and see. Just all depends on your personal gear level. The two are never more than 10% stronger/weaker than the other, at any rate.

It makes giving one set of stat weights a bit difficult, but the important thing is that whichever way they swing at one's personal gear level, the gap never becomes wide enough to make you choose a different piece of gear. At the most, it will cause you to gem str/crit over str/haste but, personally, I would do that anyways for AoE reasons. As already stated.

No. If your RP is going to cap (or is already capped) you are always best off using DC. Always, renewing diseases aside. It's your best damage-per-gcd ability (PS/IT and their diseases aside, of course).

The reason you're seeing runes refresh in 8 seconds has to do with the previously mentioned grace period runes have. If you use a rune within 0 to 2 seconds of when it refreshed, it will refresh in 10 - (0 to 2, whenever it was you used it) seconds. Part of the reason it's in place is to make it so latency and such doesn't screw up your rotation worse than it otherwise would.

Hey,

Was the 4pct9 diseases critting on diffrenet crit values confirmed? I did 10man ToC last night and checked recount.
Blood Plague crits were around 40% and Frost Fever crits around 27%. Latter suggests that Frost Fever crit rate is tied to spell crit unless it was a very weird RNG. Doesn't that affect the EP value of 4pct9?

Is there a way to simulate the effect of using Pestilence in certain scenarios to create more Wandering Plague ticks for the purpose of single target damage? I'm thinking of a situation like Algalon where you have the Living Constellations around. They obviously don't need to be damaged, but would spreading diseases through Pestilence be worth more than a Blood Strike due to the Wandering Plague ticks that would hit Algalon?

Due to the fact that Constellations are constantly moving/despawning, that's probably a bad example, although I do get what you're saying.

Calculating WP's additional damage to your primary target and your primary target alone and whether that's worth the loss of a BS is simple enough. If there's one additional target, divide your BS damage by 2 and multiply your WP damage by 2. That's all. Although not completely accurate, that's more or less what you would want to know - and the answer is yes, it's worth pesting to a second target even if all you are concerned about is damage to the primary target. I do it on Twin Valks, even during Shields. It's simply a dps boost to do so, even just on that one target, let alone on the other(s).

I still wouldn't do it on Algalon, however. It would look great for the damage meters, but that's pretty much all. The Constellations and Stars are constantly moving around, and are likely to be out of WP range (which is only 8 yards) most of the time. And, besides, Collapsing Stars taking additional disease damage could cause issues.

Not that Algalon is amazingly difficult these days. If anything, with CC gear, you'll probably have to hold your dps at some point so he doesn't get pushed through too soon.

I'm just concerned about the general case. Thanks for the info. So even in an "ignore the adds and burn the boss" scenario, pestilence would be a good idea. I'm blanking on scenarios for this besides Twins and Algalon.

For Algalon specifically, our kills always ended up with the constellations in melee range for long periods of time. I guess having a prot paladin using consecrate and hammer just glues the constellations to him unintentionally until they're pulled out into the black holes.

He's talking about fights where you would pest but not actually AoE - such as Twin Valks (and, potentially Algalon). On Jaraxxus, you should be DnDing (at times). On Anub, you should be DnDing. So on. Thus you are going to be pesting anyways.

It was already shown a couple pages back that it's worth switching to your AoE rotation with even as few as two mobs (Twin Valk being the exception, due to the buff mechanic, but it's still worth Pest'ing there).

Anyways, I think I'm going to change the EP values for crit/haste in the OP. I've been running the numbers with a lot of different gear points - weak and strong - and haste and crit constantly swap places with one another (while everything else remains in the same place and relatively equal in value to what it is at other gear points). It's hard to say "Haste is better at this gear point" or "Crit is better at this" when it's not really a matter of gear quality, but specific stat spread on that gear. If I were to show them as being equal to one another, that wouldn't quite be accurate, but it would be better than the stat weights essentially saying that one is clearly better than the other - when that's not always the case.

Annoying situation.

Night of the Dead: Now reduces the damage your pet takes from area-of-effect damage by 45/90%, but no longer applies to area-of-effect damage caused by other players.

Glyph of Icy Touch: Instead of granting additional runic power, this glyph now causes Frost Fever to deal 20% additional damage.

From the 3.3 PTR Patch Notes. Nice buff to Ghoul Survivability, but I was hoping they would push for the change they mentioned a while back, just having pets not be affected at all by boss AoEs. As for the Glyph, considering how much damage FF does with 4 Set T9, it's probably still better than UB.

Feel free to call me an idiot - but to me if the change to GoIT goes through - we're RP starved before our first rotation is complete..... unless I am completely missing something.....which of course wouldn't be the first time...

IT - PS - SS - BS - BS - DC - (HoW) - DC

10 + 15 + 20 + 2 (Butchery @ 5s mark) + 10 + 10 - 40 + 10 + 2 (Butchery @ 10s mark) - 40 ==> -1 RP

Not a huge deal - but messes with an already tight rotation...lag might end up actually helping in some situations....

The new GoIT is still better than GoUB, at least, so whichever spec we use, we'll still be using it. It also has the side benefit of increasing our AoE damage (which I'm kinda shocked didn't get nerfed in these notes, but who knows).

Doing two sims, one the current spec (with the current rotation), with only two glyphs:

The new GoIT would have added approximately (.2 x 7,1 + .1 x 6.6) 2.08% damage to that, or 186.555 dps, for a total of 9155.555 dps.

Doing an epidemic rotation (but still no reaping - this doesn't make reaping any better) with only two glyphs:

The new GoiT would have added approximately (.2 x 7.1 + .1 x 5.9) 2.01% damage to that, or 177.14 dps, for a total of 8990.14 dps.

These were both done with BiS gear sets (or near BiS. Might have been slightly worse, can't remember if that gear set included the BiS cloaks or not, but regardless).

So, yeah, current build/rotation still wins out (at least between those two options. There may be something else superior, however...). Haste will decrease in value somewhat (as we gain an extra 0.5 seconds of free gcd per 20), which probably won't change anything gear wise (except to ensure crit is superior almost all the time), but that's pretty much it. Won't shift our playstyles dramatically or anything.